End Times Prophetic Scriptures Of Isaiah [Caucus of Charismatics, Pentecostals & Dispys]

END TIMES PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES OF ISAIAH.—CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL, DISPENSATIONALIST CAUCUS THREAD.

This is posted for hopefully a mutually beneficial iron sharpening iron dialogue, discussion amongst the above interest groups. We must avoid throwing rocks at others to protect the decorum and rights of a caucus thread. We must police ourselves on that score first and foremost. I will ask for any post crossing that line to be removed promptly. Please spare us the hassle.

Lurkers are certainly welcome to ask questions in the thread or VIA FREEPMAIL. Keeping in mind the rules of a caucus thread, please feel free to ask.

The Isaiah Scriptures posted hereon and to follow are gleaned from the late John F Walvoord’s EVERY PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE. Those pages covering Isaiah are 99-120.

I’m choosing to post as well the verses in THE MESSAGE (MSG) version as well as THE AMPLIFIED VERSION (AMP). I choose THE MESSAGE because I believe it captures the original language’s forcefulness, idiom, down-to-earth-ness in plain common man language the best. And, the Amplified because it offers up the most plausible options when there’s more than one in a verse. I realize others would choose other versions for a variety of reasons. They are certainly welcome to do so, on their own thread! LOL . . . or on this one on their own posts!

I’ll likely begin my commentary later as I’m fading faster and faster tonight.

MSG ISAIAH 2:1-18

Isaiah 2 (The Message)

Isaiah 2

Climb God's Mountain

1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—
   solid, towering over all mountains.
All nations will river toward it,
   people from all over set out for it.
They'll say, "Come,
   let's climb God's Mountain,
   go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
   so we can live the way we're made."
Zion's the source of the revelation.
   God's Message comes from Jerusalem.
He'll settle things fairly between nations.
   He'll make things right between many peoples.
They'll turn their swords into shovels,
   their spears into hoes.
No more will nation fight nation;
   they won't play war anymore.
Come, family of Jacob,
   let's live in the light of God.

6-9God, you've walked out on your family Jacob
   because their world is full of hokey religion,
Philistine witchcraft, and pagan hocus-pocus,
   a world rolling in wealth,
Stuffed with things,
   no end to its machines and gadgets,
And gods—gods of all sorts and sizes.
   These people make their own gods and worship what they make.
A degenerate race, facedown in the gutter.
   Don't bother with them! They're not worth forgiving!

Pretentious Egos Brought Down to Earth

10Head for the hills,
hide in the caves
From the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence.

11-17People with a big head are headed for a fall,
   pretentious egos brought down a peg.
It's God alone at front-and-center
   on the Day we're talking about,
The Day that God-of-the-Angel-Armies
   is matched against all big-talking rivals,
   against all swaggering big names;
Against all giant sequoias
   hugely towering,
   and against the expansive chestnut;
Against Kilimanjaro and Annapurna,
   against the ranges of Alps and Andes;
Against every soaring skyscraper,
   against all proud obelisks and statues;
Against ocean-going luxury liners,
   against elegant three-masted schooners.
The swelled big heads will be punctured bladders,
   the pretentious egos brought down to earth,
Leaving God alone at front-and-center
   on the Day we're talking about.

18And all those sticks and stones
dressed up to look like gods
will be gone for good.

19Clamber into caves in the cliffs,
   duck into any hole you can find.
Hide from the terror of God,
   from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
   towering and terrifying.

20-21On that Day men and women will take
   the sticks and stones
They've decked out in gold and silver
   to look like gods and then worshiped,
And they will dump them
   in any ditch or gully,
Then run for rock caves
   and cliff hideouts
To hide from the terror of God,
   from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
   towering and terrifying.

22Quit scraping and fawning over mere humans,
so full of themselves, so full of hot air!
Can't you see there's nothing to them?

Isaiah 2

1THE WORD which Isaiah son of Amoz saw [revealed] concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be [firmly] established as the highest of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow to it.

3And many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4And He shall judge between the nations and shall decide [disputes] for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.⁽^A)

6Surely [Lord] You have rejected and forsaken your people, the house of Jacob, because they are filled [with customs] from the east and with soothsayers [who foretell] like the Philistines; also they strike hands and make pledges and agreements with the children of aliens.⁽^B)

7Their land also is full of silver and gold; neither is there any end to their treasures. Their land is also full of horses; neither is there any end to their chariots.⁽^C)

8Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, what their own fingers have made.

9And the common man is bowed down [before idols], also the great man is brought low and humbles himself--therefore forgive them not [O Lord].

10Enter into the rock and hide yourself in the dust from before the terror of the Lord and from the glory of His majesty.

11The proud looks of man shall be brought low, and the haughtiness of men shall be humbled; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

12For there shall be a day of the Lord of hosts against all who are proud and haughty and against all who are lifted up--and they shall be brought low--^(D)

13[The wrath of God will begin by coming down] against all the cedars of Lebanon [west of the Jordan] that are high and lifted up, and against all the oaks of Bashan [east of the Jordan],

14And [after that] against all the high mountains and all the hills that are lifted up,

16And against all the ships of Tarshish and all the picturesque and desirable imagery [designed for mere ornament and luxury].

17Then the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

19Then shall [the stricken, deprived of all in which they had trusted] go into the caves of the rocks and into the holes of the earth from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He arises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.⁽^E)

20In that day men shall cast away to the moles and to the bats their idols of silver and their idols of gold, which they made for themselves to worship,

21To go into the caverns of the rocks and into the clefts of the ragged rocks from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He rises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.

22Cease to trust in [weak, frail, and dying] man, whose breath is in his nostrils [for so short a time]; in what sense can he be counted as having intrinsic worth?

MSG: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—solid, towering over all mountains.

Clearly this is to be AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION. I assume it is to be during the Millenium. I suppose it is conceivable that it might be after satan is bound up for good at the end of the Millenium.

In any case, it is a clear Scriptural assertion that Jerusalem, God’s Dwelling Place (in some sense) and The Mountain of God shall be the highest mountain on the planet. No other mountain will dare begin to rival it.

This, too, is a familiar Scriptural assertion of that future era. Tribute is to be brought to Jerusalem. Countries without worshipful tribute bearing delegations to Jerusalem will suffer lack of rain etc. These issues are all very tangible, daily life aspects with somewhat familiar priorities, themes, practices.

MSG: They'll say, "Come,
   let's climb God's Mountain,
   go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
   so we can live the way we're made."

This is a precious hope; a precious dream . . . to live as we were made to live.

I perceive three separate events in the prophesy. The first, the wrath of God:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? – Revelation 6:12-17

Second, the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth:

And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. – Revelation 19:11-16

Third, the new heaven and new earth:

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. – Revelation 21:22-27

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Thanks so much for the Scriptures and commentary.

I perceive three separate events in the prophesy. The first, the wrath of God:

Have often pondered such verses. It seems to me that the sun becoming dark is easily volcanoes and/or meteors and/or nukes. Certainly other possibilities are in God’s quiver but I think those are the most plausible.

The moon becoming as blood could certainly be because of a certain mixture and/or variety of dust in the air. The red full moon recently was certainly a sobering spectacle on that score. It was redder than I’ve ever seen it before, in my 60 years. But I think we haven’t seen how red it can appear, yet.

The stars falling as untimely figs is very descriptive, to me. It seems highly likely that refers to meteors falling—but in great abundance with LOTS of thuds and thumps. I’m reminded of big hail stones on a trailer roof . . . . Or fruit being blown off onto a tin roofed shop building in a strong wind. Living things are likely to be devastated from the thumps.

The Heavens rolled up or departed as a scroll when it is rolled together has long been mystifying. I have long felt that THAT action will be a great surprise to every living human on earth—probably most of all—to the scientists. Some have speculated rather confidently that it must refer to the actions of the atmosphere in an atmospheric nuclear bomb detonation. Plausible to a point, I suppose. But I think it’s much more dramatic. I think the description will turn out to have been literally amazingly accurate.

In a sense it seems preposterous to think so given the distances astronomers commonly work with. But do we really know as much as we think we know? If the earth is as God’s footstool . . . . whether purely metaphorically or both that and ‘literally’ in some mysterious sense . . . what if the whole kit and kabootle is a big encased snowflake globe on God’s mantle . . . what if we really finally see behind the BIG curtain? What do I know. But I still think that the Heavens rolled back like a scroll will turn out to be much more dramatic than a mere few nukes or some such.

I’m seeing, speculating on something this reading I haven’t before . . . How is it that EVERY person hid themselves in the dens and the rocks . . . HIDE US FROM HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE . . . AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB? Not now is it that they hide . . . but how is it that all peoples everywhere KNOW who it is that is God and The Lamb? Supernatural revelation to their spirits and minds? Quite Plausible. Or, as might fit the verse—DO THEY LITERALLY SEE THE FATHER ON THE THRONE AND THE LAMB slain from the foundation of the world on His throne beside The Father? Is that PART of what the Heavens rolled back like a scroll might mean—seeing behind THAT curtain?

Certainly this passage makes abundantly clear that the events described are GOD’S WRATH. This is not some tin-horn dictator like Pol Pot shredding his serfs or his enemy’s serfs right and left. This is several orders of magnitude DIFFERENT!

Second, the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. – Revelation 19:11-16

I want to check out the MSG version on that passage . . .

MSG 11-16Then I saw Heaven open wide—and oh! a white horse and its Rider. The Rider, named Faithful and True, judges and makes war in pure righteousness. His eyes are a blaze of fire, on his head many crowns. He has a Name inscribed that's known only to himself. He is dressed in a robe soaked with blood, and he is addressed as "Word of God." The armies of Heaven, mounted on white horses and dressed in dazzling white linen, follow him. A sharp sword comes out of his mouth so he can subdue the nations, then rule them with a rod of iron. He treads the winepress of the raging wrath of God, the Sovereign-Strong. On his robe and thigh is written, King of kings, Lord of lords.

I don’t see any great revelatory differences in that translation . . . some subtle embellishments. The many crowns . . . plausible as stated but it seems likely that a host of angels would have to keep that many crowns stacked as The Lord navigated. Seems more plausible that they represent layers, regions, worlds, galaxies of authority over all reality. I agree that a long sharp sword literally coming out of his mouth would seem rather ungainly to walk about with. Seems much more plausible that every word he speaks will have the power and reality splitting impact of a fierce sword.

The bit with the horses has long fascinated me. A massive army of horses coming out of . . . space? Certainly God COULD/CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO—HIS SAND BOX. And, I realize that most folks have seen that as symbolic. But the bigger part of me expects it to be literally just like described. I happen to think God likes horses. And, like an artist who likes blue . . . and uses it a lot. I think God wants to use horses, BIG horses in that scene. We shall see. Heaven only knows emphatically.

Third, the new heaven and new earth:

Ahhhhh . . . this seems to be the era where the earth is moved out of it’s place . . . perhaps? Evidently? The sun and moon are not only needed . . . are not even around? What a glorious era, for sure!

The nations of them which are saved is an interesting phrase. Aren’t all ungodly nations obliterated at this point? In any case, the humble are now exalted in God’s eternal New Jerusalem, if I read it accurately.

And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

Sounds like pretty exclusive real estate, to me! What a day that will be! Ruling and reigning with our Lord!

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

INDEED!

Thank you so much for your encouragements and for sharing your insights!

I have no speculation as to how these prophesies will be manifest to us from our perspective as mere mortals. I do however aver that it is important to be aware of current events (signs of the times) - comparing them with Scripture.

And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? - Matt 16:3

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matt 24:42

For instance, science concludes there are 10⁸⁰ particles in the known universe. And yet science also says that those 10⁸⁰ particles could be multiply imaged from as little as a single particle in a fifth, time-line, dimension.

Science can deduce this much - but God knows "all that there is" all at once.

The very hairs on our head are numbered. We don't know them, but God does:

But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. - Matt 10:30

From our perspective "in" space/time, the extent of the physical creation is so vast that we can barely comprehend it at all.

The Creator is not bound by the Creation.

So if He chooses to literally roll up the cosmos like a scroll, He will. Ditto for Christ's coming on a horse.

Or, they could be metaphors. We'll see.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

MSG:
Zion’s the source of the revelation.
God’s Message comes from Jerusalem.

QX: It seems clear from this section that God is going to set it up such that His priority, main communications originate out from the restored, ?New? ?Heavenly? . . . Jerusalem—at least in terms of from the perspective of the rest of the earth at that future time.

MSG:
He’ll settle things fairly between nations.
He’ll make things right between many peoples.

QX: Ahhhh . . . no more Machiavellian geopolitics. No more ‘fleshly might makes right.’ No more weak serfs and victims of the strong.

MSG:
They’ll turn their swords into shovels,
their spears into hoes.

QX: Clearly another marker indicating emphatically a future time. Given the closeness of the world government, the clock is ticking. History as we have known it is fading away. The thousand years of peace under Christ’s rule advances steadily. We can look up confidently as our REDEMPTION DRAWS NIGH.

MSG:
No more will nation fight nation;
they won’t play war anymore.

QX: Praise God INDEED! The Long awaited time advances closer on the bright horizon after the darkness worse than ever before & worse than ever shall be.

MSG:
Come, family of Jacob,
let’s live in the light of God.

QX: The family . . . of . . . Chang? Iversen? Nishtone? . . . OF JACOB! Clearly, God is still focused, in part, in very significant part . . . on the children of Jacob. His plans for them include a fitting place in the NEW JERUSALEM RULING THE WHOLE EARTH.

Thankfully, CHRISTIANS HAVE BEEN GRAFTED IN to that chosen Branch. And our King of Kings and Lord of Lords IS THE Branch SUPREME.

PTL.

MARANATHA!

What of the Jews who have not accepted Yah'shua?

After the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, the blindness that has been upon the Jews may be lifted

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. – Romans 11:25-28

If not then, then certainly when Christ appears in power, the Jews who have not accepted Yah’shua will realize what has happened, what should have been theirs.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. - Revelation 1:7

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. - Romans 14:11

My musing is that at one point or the other, they would become jealous thus fulfilling the prophesy of the Song of Moses:

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you. - Romans 10:19

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. - Romans 11:11

My musings is also that somewhere between Israel becoming jealous, the millennial reign of Christ on earth and the new heaven and earth, this promise to seed of Israel will be kept:

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:33-37

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

If not then, then certainly when Christ appears in power, the Jews who have not accepted Yah’shua will realize what has happened, what should have been theirs.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. - Revelation 1:7
For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. - Romans 14:11

My musing is that at one point or the other, they would become jealous thus fulfilling the prophesy of the Song of Moses:

They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. - Deuteronomy 32:21
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you. - Romans 10:19

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. - Romans 11:11

My musings is also that somewhere between Israel becoming jealous, the millennial reign of Christ on earth and the new heaven and earth, this promise to seed of Israel will be kept:

= = =

INDEED.

thanks much. Praise God.

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