Skip to comments.WHO WAS JOSEPH SMITH? [The OTHER World Series: Mormonism's Joseph Smith and the Occult]
Posted on 10/28/2013 8:22:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
Who was Joseph Smith? Was he a fraud or a prophet? Was he a charlatan or a chosen seer of God? Was he a conscious imposter or a deranged visionary? The Joseph Smith of history is vastly different from the common Mormon perception and the current LDS Church presentation of him. He has been cleaned up and somewhat sanitized in some present biographies. Some of his false predictions and erratic behavior have been deleted or changed in contemporary histories. Yet, many of the original records in the LDS archives have been copied by their scholars and reproduced for us to examine.
In an attempt to answer the question, "Who was Joseph Smith?" he will be examined from these three perspectives: family, factions and figures who influenced him.
According to New England genealogical records, Joseph Smith, Jr. had a rather illustrious ancestry. His first paternal ancestor that can be discovered was Robert Smith, his great-great-grandfather. Robert was an English Puritan who arrive in America in 1638. Joseph's great-grandfather was Samuel Smith, a gentleman and a representative of the Massachusetts General. Asahel Smith, grandfather to the founder of Mormonism, was a captain of the Minute Men who responded to the Lexington alarm and then on to the siege of Boston.1
Joseph's maternal grandfather Solomon Mack, claimed to have experienced divine visitations from heaven. When he was seventy-eight years of age, the accounts of these visions were published in a little book which he peddled to friends, neighbors and anyone who would purchase them.2
Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith, Jr. was ambitious but limited in formal education. She was highly mystical and was given to strange dreams. She was, however, the most enterprising member of her family. People who knew her best said she would look you straight in the eye and weave an unimaginable tale, and when challenged she would defend her exaggerated statements without shame.
Little can be said of Joseph's father for little record remains concerning him. The gifted Mormon writer Dale Morgan described Joseph Smith, Sr., as having "no liking for the axe and little more for the plow, and was not a man to immune himself in a lonesome clearing at the outer reaches of civilization."3 He was also given to treasure digging. In an affidavit signed by several prominent citizens of Manchester, New York, on November 3, 1833, the Smith men were described as "lazy, indolent, intemperate, destitute of moral character and addicted to vicious habits."4
The first faction that influenced Joseph Smith, Jr. was a fascination with the occult. Mormon scholar D. Michael Quinn, has carefully documented that Smith was influenced by the culture of his day and particularly by his immediate family. His father and uncle both used divining rods.5 Luman Walters was likely the individual who introduced Joseph Smith, Jr. to using the "seer stone" for the pretense of discovering treasure.6 The Palmyra Reflector dubbed him as "Walters the Magician" who operated by the use of "familiar spirits," using instruments of witchcraft such as a "stuffed toad," "an old sword," and a "seer stone."7
Dr. Reed Durham, former president of the Mormon History Association, and Professor of Religion at the University of Utah, in a 1974 lecture revealed that at the time of his death Joseph Smith was wearing what was formerly thought to have been a "Masonic jewel" was actually a "Jupiter talisman." This proves that Joseph Smith was engaged in occult practices until the end of his life in 1844.8 A talisman is an object engraved with astrological signs believed to have possessed power to avert evil and bring good luck. Such pieces are clearly identified with occult magic. This lecture, although true, brought the wrath of then President Spencer W. Kimbell down upon Dr. Durham. The talisman is currently kept in the LDS Archives.
Thirty miles from the Smith farm in Palmyra, the Shakers built a community hall. Ann Lee's followers viewed her as the reincarnated Christ. Lee was believed by her followers to speak in seventy-two different tongues, all unintelligible to those who heard them. The Shakers also believed that she could converse with the dead. Even if Smith did not attend any of these meeting he could have read about their practices in the local paper.9 The Shakers believe in new, extra-biblical revelations and visions from God, as do the Mormons. Another similarity between the two groups is their prohibition against the use of coffee, tea, tobacco, and liquor; Smith almost certainly knew about the Shaker's teachings when he later gave a revelation from God typed the "Word of Wisdom." The similarities are too obvious to be insignificant in the new religion of Smith.
Not more than twenty-five miles in another direction, Jemima Wilkinson, a Quaker, claimed to be Christ, calling herself the "Universal Friend." She led her group by revelations from heaven. Her group practiced communal living along with celibacy. The traits of communal living and being lead by divine revelations were also very prominent among the early Mormons. In contrast to Wilkinson's group, however, early Mormons did not practice celibacy.
Another group that likely influenced Smith's thinking was the "Seekers," of which Joseph Smith's uncle, Jason Mack, was a member. The Seekers believed, as does the Mormon church, that the contemporary Church has become corrupt, the Scriptures are defective, and that the faithful can be validated through the Apostolic gifts.10
While Smith was definitely influence by the general millennial fever of the 1830s he was specifically influenced by the predictions of William Miller, who's teaching gave a basis for today's Seventh Day Adventist. Smith, in 1835 during the time that William Miller was predicting the coming of Christ for 1844, prophesied the return of Christ at an ordination service of the twelve apostles in his new church. He declared that the world scene should be completed within fifty-six years.11 Woven deeply into the fabric of Mormonism are their eschatological claims to world dominance through the coming millennial reign of Christ, which by the way, Smith taught would take place not in Jerusalem the Zion of the Bible but in Independence, Missouri.
Still another influence upon the eclectic thinking of Smith was Emanuel Swedenborg. Although they were not contemporaries, Smith likely picked up some of Swedenborg's ideas by reading the Palmyra Reflector.12 Swedenborg considered himself a seer of new revelations from God, which transcended the revelation of Scripture. Swedenborg, like Smith, could describe the celestial world in minute detail. Anyone familiar with the teachings of the Mormons will quickly recognize ideas of Swedenborg. (See Profile in this issue)
There can be no question about the ideas that Smith carried over into Mormonism by way of Sidney Rigdon a former associate of Alexander Campbell. Two major themes of Mormonism are the "Restored Gospel" idea and the teaching of baptismal regeneration. While the Seekers taught that the gospel had been lost the Campbellites taught that it had been restored. Campbell coined the term "restoration," by which he meant the recovery of the New Testament pattern and practices. Smith and Rigdon extended the idea to cover the Old Testament also. Noted Mormon scholars Leonard J. Arrington and Davis Bitton acknowledge the influence of the restoration teaching of Campbell upon the early Saints.13
The first name given to the Mormons was also likely to have been influenced by Campbell: the Church of Christ. While the formal name "Disciples of Christ" became a common designation for Campbell's group as early as 1825, he was referring to his church as the "Church of Christ."14 Some believe that Smith knew Sidney Rigdon, a one-time member of Campbell's Church of Christ, before Rigdon joined the Mormon Church. If so, it is significant that Smith named his group the Church of Christ in 1830.
Another extremely important influence upon Smith is the original source for his "conversion story," known as the "First Vision." Mormon Apostle John A. Widtsoe, rightfully measured everything that followed by the validity of Joseph's first vision when he wrote, "The First Vision of 1820 is of the first importance in the history of Joseph Smith. Upon its reality rest the truth and value of his subsequent work."
Jerald and Sandra Tanner were the first to reveal that there were different accounts of the First Vision. Finally, Mormon scholars admitted this fact. The full diaries of Joseph Smith, which have been published by Mormon historian Scott H. Faulring, record are at least three accounts of the first vision. The earliest account is found in Smith's own handwriting in his diary between July 20 and November 27, 1832, twelve years after the event was supposed to take place. He states he saw only the person of Christ who announced that his sins were forgiven. In this first account there is no record of seeing angels or conversation as to which church to join. He also says he was 16 years old at the time. In the church newspaper, Messenger and Advocate, dated February 1835, Oliver Cowdery, Smith's cousin and confidant, begins the church history and includes a second account of the first vision. In this account neither the Father nor the Son are mentioned, but a "personage stood before him" described as a "messenger [an angel] sent by commandment of the Lord." On November 9,1835 Smith dictated a third account of the first vision, found in his diary. This account grew out of a discussion with a "Jewish minister" where he claimed to be "about 14 years old." A second person appears in this account "like unto the first" who "testifyed [sic] unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." The second person is not identified as God the Father, but rather seems to be an angelic being bearing testimony to Jesus. Again, there is no discussion as to which church to join. Not until March 1,1842, in the Times and Seasons, twenty-two years after the event was supposed to taken place did the church newspaper mention two personages (Christ and God) appearing to him simultaneously. This became the official account found today in Pearl of Great Price. Smith was also likely influenced by the conversion story of Charles Finney. By comparing the two conversion stories it becomes clear that Smith either heard Finney tell his story, or he either heard or read about Finney's conversion story.
A final influence upon Smith was the Masonic order. Originally, while Smith was dictating the Book of Mormon he reflected the strong anti-Mason sentiment of the times.15 In fact, his brother Hyrum joined the Masonic Order in Palmyra at the time Joseph claimed to find the golden plates. It is likely that the idea for discovering the golden plates came from Jewish Cabalistic lore and carried into Masonic legend where Enoch is said to have found buried treasure of gold and brass plates. Characters on the plates were said to be in Egyptian hieroglyphics, all of which sounds remarkably similar to Smith's supposed discovery of the golden and brass plates in the hill Cumorah near his home. Despite this likely early plagiarism of Mormon lore, Smith later became a Mason through the influence of Dr. John D. Bennett at Nauvoo. He subsequently brought virtually every male member of his religion into the order.
From the Masonic ritual Smith carried the secret names, tokens (handclasps), penalties, signs and phrases into the Mormon Temple ceremonies. Prominent Masonic symbols such as the beehive and sun face were transported into the fabric of Mormonism. The sun face with extending rays was placed on the Nauvoo temple and the beehive remains an important symbol of Mormonism today.
Key figures who influenced Smith were Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery and Sidney Rigdon. Martin Harris provided the funds through the sale of a piece of land to print the first edition of the Book of Mormon, but he subsequently became a continual thorn in Smith's side until his death.
One of the most overlooked items in the early history of Smith, until rather recently, is the fact that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were distant cousins, through their mothers. Cowdery, only a year younger than Smith, was Smith's secretary and recorded the Book of Mormon as Joseph dictated it from behind a curtain. This is important for several reasons. Cowdery was from Poultney, Vermont and attended the Congregational Church of Ethan Smith who wrote View of the Hebrews that many believe is the basis for the Book of Mormon. It may also explain why Cowdery, after being excommunicated, refused to air his disagreements with Smith.
Sidney Rigdon came into the Mormon church fresh from a falling out with Alexander Campbell. With him he bought a faulted theological basis to Mormonism. Gordon Fraser has called him, "Smith's theologian." John Hyde, who left the church in Utah, identified Rigdon as being the "compiling genesis of Mormonism" and the inventor of many of it's "forms and arguments." David Whitmer, a supposed witness of the golden plates, later left the church and credited Rigdon for instituting the priesthood idea. There is no doubt that Rigdon was one of the most influential persons in the life of Joseph Smith.
The historical record of the nineteenth century shows remarkable parallels between the religious environment of western New York and the developing Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Based upon these records, it is reasonable to conclude that Joseph Smith was a fraudulent businessman, occultist, and plagiarist.
1 Hebert Spencer Salisbury, "The Mormon War in Hancock County," Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society, July 1915, 281-282.
2 William J. Whalen, The Latter-day Saints in the Modern World (New York: The John Day Company, 1964), 23.
3 John Phillip Walker, Editor, Dale Morgan on Early Days of Mormonism (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1986), 219.
4 Daniel P. Kidder, Mormonism and the Mormons: A Historical View of the Rise and Progress Of the Sect Self-styled Latter-day Saints (New York: Carlton and Lanhan, 1842), 20-21.
5 D. Michael Quinn, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View (Salt Lake City: Signature Press, 1987), 27-28.
6 Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Company, 1867),28,38.
7 The Reflector, June 12, July 7, 1830; February 28,1831.
8 Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism-Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), 492 as cited from Mormon Miscellaneous, October 1975, 11,13,16.
9 Thomas F. O'Dea, The Mormons (Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 1975), 11.
10 William Alexander Linn, The Story of the Mormons (New York: Russell & Russell, 1902),9.
11 Leroy Edwin Froom, "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," (Tokoma Park, Washington, DC, Review and Herald, Volume 4, Publishing Association, 1954), 462-465.
12 The Reflector, March 16,1830.
13 Leonard J. Arrington and Davis Bitton, The Mormon Experience (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1979), 27.
14 Dean C. Jessee, "The Writing of Joseph's History," Brigham Young University Studies, Volume 11, Number 4 (Summer 1971), 471-472.
15 John Hyde, Jr., Mormonism: It's Leaders and Designs (New York: W.P. Fetridge & Co., 1857), 152,153.
Joseph's maternal grandfather Solomon Mack, claimed to have experienced divine visitations from heaven. When he was seventy-eight years of age, the accounts of these visions were published in a little book which he peddled to friends, neighbors and anyone who would purchase them.2 Lucy Mack Smith, the mother of Joseph Smith, Jr. was ambitious but limited in formal education. She was highly mystical and was given to strange dreams. She was, however, the most enterprising member of her family. People who knew her best said she would look you straight in the eye and weave an unimaginable tale, and when challenged she would defend her exaggerated statements without shame.
From the article:
Mormon scholar D. Michael Quinn, has carefully documented that Smith was influenced by the culture of his day and particularly by his immediate family. His father and uncle both used divining rods.5 Luman Walters was likely the individual who introduced Joseph Smith, Jr. to using the "seer stone" for the pretense of discovering treasure.6 The Palmyra Reflector dubbed him as "Walters the Magician" who operated by the use of "familiar spirits," using instruments of witchcraft such as a "stuffed toad," "an old sword," and a "seer stone."7 Dr. Reed Durham, former president of the Mormon History Association, and Professor of Religion at the University of Utah, in a 1974 lecture revealed that at the time of his death Joseph Smith was wearing what was formerly thought to have been a "Masonic jewel" was actually a "Jupiter talisman." This proves that Joseph Smith was engaged in occult practices until the end of his life in 1844.8 A talisman is an object engraved with astrological signs believed to have possessed power to avert evil and bring good luck. Such pieces are clearly identified with occult magic. This lecture, although true, brought the wrath of then President Spencer W. Kimbell down upon Dr. Durham. The talisman is currently kept in the LDS Archives.
An American Prophet Muhammad.
A final influence upon Smith was the Masonic order. Originally, while Smith was dictating the Book of Mormon he reflected the strong anti-Mason sentiment of the times.15 In fact, his brother Hyrum joined the Masonic Order in Palmyra at the time Joseph claimed to find the golden plates. It is likely that the idea for discovering the golden plates came from Jewish Cabalistic lore and carried into Masonic legend where Enoch is said to have found buried treasure of gold and brass plates. Characters on the plates were said to be in Egyptian hieroglyphics, all of which sounds remarkably similar to Smith's supposed discovery of the golden and brass plates in the hill Cumorah near his home. Despite this likely early plagiarism of Mormon lore, Smith later became a Mason through the influence of Dr. John D. Bennett at Nauvoo. He subsequently brought virtually every male member of his religion into the order. From the Masonic ritual Smith carried the secret names, tokens (handclasps), penalties, signs and phrases into the Mormon Temple ceremonies. Prominent Masonic symbols such as the beehive and sun face were transported into the fabric of Mormonism. The sun face with extending rays was placed on the Nauvoo temple and the beehive remains an important symbol of Mormonism today.
* Reviews [The OTHER World Series: 'The eyes of the dead are upon us' - ex-LDS 'prophet']
* Teachings Concerning The Spirit World [Lds: 'unseen...visitors'...from 'world beyond' close]
* Interesting Similarities between Mormonism and Spirit Release Therapy [The OTHER World Series...]
* Do Mormons Believe in Ghosts? [The OTHER World Series: 'spirits...not far from us']
* Opinion: Mormon zombies are hard to find is Halloween fit for LDS? [The OTHER World Series]
* Is "Ghost Hunters" host Grant Wilson a member? [of the Mormon church? Yes]
* 25 years ago today - 1988 Oct.1 [Lds complete 100 million endowments for the dead in temples]
* What Is the LDS Standard For Discerning Between Spirits? [Smith: 'some revelations of the devil']
* Mormonism started by Familiar Spirits [ Demonism ] [[The Other World Series]]
The other World Series?
He used to cut our grass.
. . . . . and successfully gave the masonic fraternity a false reputation as a religion.
Who was Joseph Smith: an oculist, thief, liar, pedophile, adulator, con man, grifter, deceiver, manipulator, murderer, blasphemer....and that’s just the public info.
“The Shakers” - “”Getting the shake” is said to confer enlightenment, powers of healing and divination, and “second sight.””- http://thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/shaker-religion Also more here: http://shawcss.tripod.com/REL101/society/intro.htm Maybe I had heard of these people but I did not know much about them. I’m not even sure if the “Shakers” in the Canadian Encyclopedia are the same one’s discussed in the Watchtower article. The Canadian Encyclopedia seems to call it a religion from the Northwest, British Columbia involving at least in part, Native Americans.
Well, one thing a "religious" official (pastor/minister/priest) does is to perform marriage & funeral/memorial services. Indeed, Masonry has both -- including other-worldly commentary @ funerals/memorial services of where that person has "landed" on the other side.
Hence, anybody attempting to speak with such spiritual authority about other-worldly "landing points" is indeed deemed a "religion"...(not to mention other "religious" worldview dimensions taught in the degrees advancement as well as religious ritualism taught & passed down generation-by-generation)
Joseph Smith is an American Horndog Prophet
Joseph Smith Confesses he is a Vile, Dishonest Impostor
"Josiah Stowell, a Mormonite, being sworn, testified that he positively knew that said Smith never had lied to, or deceived him, and did not believe he ever tried to deceive any body else. The following questions were then asked him, to which he made the replies annexed.
Did Smith ever tell you there was money hid in a certain glass which he mentioned?
Did he tell you, you could find it by digging?
Did you dig?
Did you find any money?
Did he not lie to you then, and deceive you?
No! the money was there, but we did not get quite to it!
How do you know it was there?
Smith said it was!
Addison Austin was next called upon, who testified, that at the very same time that Stowell was digging for money, he, Austin, was in company with said Smith alone, and asked him to tell him honestly whether he could see this money or not.
Smith hesitated some time, but finally replied, "to be candid, between you and me, I cannot, any more than you or any body else; but any way to get a living."
Here, then, we have his own confession, that he was a vile, dishonest impostor.
As regards the testimony of Josiah Stowell, it needs no comment. He swears positively that Smith did not lie to him. So much for a Mormon witness."
Then I guess the Army is a religion since it was involved in both my father’s marriage and his funeral.
I your religion “Anti-Mormon”? Just asking because I’ve never seen you promote a pro-christian article before!
As a praticing LDS member 52 years of age, I would like to express my love for my saviour, Jesus Christ, and thanfullness for his atonement which makes me capable of being cleansed from all sin.
I would also like to express my thankfullness for Joseph Smith who for the first time in over 1,000 years clarified that Jesus Christ was/is the literal son of Almighty God! Just as declared in the Bible!
Joseph Smith taught me that Jesus Christ is not the third leg of a 4th century extra-biblical political/religious construction that relies on a definition of a God with a three-way personality disorder (three-in-one, one-in-three, but never really three, but never really one, please find that in the Bible!).
As I delight in my knowledge of God the Eternal Father and in his literal Son, Jesus Christ, my saviour, I will forever be grateful for Joseph Smith’s insight which re-declared the Biblical truths of God the Father’s relationship with Jesus Christ!
What? And now we're supposed to believe that NONE of those military chaplains are "religious"...because...you say so???
Don't trigger such laughter...
But, hey, I needed that smile you brought to my face!
New thread...this time a YouTube 13-minute clip: Freemasonry & occult Mormonism (LDS) [The OTHER World Series: YouTube clip]
Smith was very like Muhamed.
Invented a religion to justify how he wanted to act.
Here's the "pro-Christian" content segments of that article:
...her personal testimony, which occurred over a two-year period as God worked in the hearts of her family members.
So God working in her heart & leaving a testimony isn't "pro-Christian?"
The article mentions how they visited a Christian church.
It mentions afterwards that
This is as "pro-Christian" as it gets!
"The Freemasons of the United States have, by tacit consent, referred to it (the pentagram) as a symbol of the Five Points of Fellowship. The outlines of the five pointed star are the same as those of the pentalpha or Pythagoras." (Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, p. 358.)
The chaplain doesn’t have to be the one performing the marriage or the funeral, for that matter.
Yeah, thank goodness I haven’t seen any Mormon suicide bombers. Snicker.
Mormons are nice people, I’ll grant you that.
"As a praticing LDS member (Cult of Mormonism) 52 years of age, I would like to express my love for my saviour, [the created spirit] Jesus Christ, and thanfullness for his atonement [when he sweat blood in the Garden, instead of on the cross] which makes me capable [if I am really, really worthy] of being cleansed from all sin."
"I would also like to express my thankfullness for Joseph Smith [our vile, horndog prophet and scammer] who for the first time in over 1,000 years clarified [perverted] that Jesus Christ was/is the literal [God had sex with Mary] son of Almighty God [of course, by this, I mean just one of millions or billions of mormonic gods]! Just as declared in the Bible [well, if you ignore vast portions]!"
"Joseph Smith [the scammer] taught me that Jesus Christ is not the third leg of a 4th century extra-biblical political/religious construction [despite the evidence being clearly in Scripture that Christ is eternal God, neither created nor made] that relies on a definition of a God with a three-way personality disorder (three-in-one, one-in-three, but never really three, but never really one, please find that in the Bible!) [OK, well the Bible teaches God is actually One God and exists as three Persons, but forget that!]."
"As I delight in my knowledge of God the Eternal Father [and did I mention Mother God? We of course believe in Her too!!] and in his literal [Yea, God had Sex, but He has Celestial Sex with Heavenly Mother/s all the time anyway] Son, Jesus Christ, my saviour [if I'm worthy], I will forever be grateful for Joseph Smiths insight which re-declared [perverted] the Biblical truths of God the Fathers relationship with Jesus Christ!"
Joseph Smith, isn’t it true that you have deceived millions with your false religion, built on a foundation of lies?
Joe Smith: “Hey, a fella’s got to make a living”
Even I know longer believe in the false religion I started! Yet day after day, the people I led astray keep posting on FreeRepublic and knocking on doors to mislead people.
Oh, how I regret how Satan used me to lead millions astray! If only I had a second chance to change things! FLEE! Before it is too late! Flee the cult of mormonism!
Well, hey, at least you are owning up to your non-Christian theology, instead of trying to pretend that you are really a Christian.
I was married while in the Army, by a Chaplin that I chose not by his denomination, but because he was Airborne qualified, and my wife was given away by my Captain, but I never thought of that as "the Army" being involved in my marriage.
Or else he just made the whole thing up!
Why not; as they LIE about other things visually as well!
How it was REALLY done...
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
That’s my point.
And just what 'truths' are those??
You say they are BIBLICAL???
Nor have I you...
I see what you did there... but you blew the 27.5...
Now you've just whetted some folks appetites without beddin' 'em back down...
I'll fix it...
Being three Persons is no "personality disorder" (what you disgracefully & blasphemously accuse God of being).
And being more united than any married couple can be is no "personality disorder," either.
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate. (Jesus, Matthew 19)
If Teppe, you continue to plead ignorance about God re: the level He is, Jesus has left you no excuse to understand diversity-within-unity at the human level.
If you are married Teppe, or have been, you -- per Jesus -- are/were a single unit. Oh, sure two personalities exist within that one unit. But Jesus doesn't define you as "two": In fact, He clearly says: ...they are NO LONGER two." (Matt. 19:6)
What trouble, Teppe, do you have with the phrase "no longer"???
Jesus reiterates here that what is now deemed as "One" by Him cannot be separated! (Matthew 19:6)
This 2-in-1 unity not ONLY applies in a parallel way to this 3-in-1 God, but this unity also cannot be encroached upon. Just as you cannot sever a marital unit, Jesus says, you cannot sever God. Just as we no longer reference a married couple as "two," likewise, we cannot reference our 3-in-1 God as only "three"...for they are more "one"...more bonded...than any Being in the Universe! Distinct persons -- just as in marriage? Yes. But "one" -- as in "One God."
Yup; they ain't THAT stupid to kill THEMSELVES along with their victims!
I was thinking it was simpler than that.
He just wanted to “marry” a bunch of underage girls.
Makin' a livin' is a hell of a way to die...
JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?
JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?
JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?
JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!
JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.
JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!
JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.
JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.
JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?
JOSEPH SMITH: This? At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30)
JESUS: That's it.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: Nah - it was right.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.
JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.
JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!
JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?
JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....
JESUS: What did you say?
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.
JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.
JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.
JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?
JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!
JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.
JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.
JESUS: No; it wasn't.
JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?
JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?
JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.
JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.
JOSEPH SMITH: But....
Who was Joseph Smith? A servant of God called to restore the church of Jesus Christ to the earth.
When I read about these “Shakers”, I didn’t realize that these kinds of “religions” must have been part of the scenario back then, it really makes one wonder what the “social malaisse” was like back then.
Didn't do him much good; as there are only alledgedly about two folks that were produced by his many wives...
Norm; are you going to CONTINUE to ignore/dismiss the FACTS that are being presented in this thread?
Much like today’s, I’d venture to say!