Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility
Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list
Posted on 01/01/2004 3:53:55 PM PST by NYer
Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond L. Flynn yesterday accused Democrats of ignoring a ``swing'' bloc of Catholic voters who could hand President Bush re-election next year.
Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list
That's understandable.
Similarly, some people are confusing Howard Dean with James Dean.......both strange, excentric rebels with a cult-like followings.
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How anyone with moral values of any religious background can vote for the rats is mysterious.
It will be interesting to track, but I think Flynn is wrong here. I believe we will see more Catholics (remember -- the Church (with the younger people) is getting more conservative.) voting Republican more and more!
A decent man in my opinion.
He's apparently new to the idea that Catholics don't listen to the hierarchy any more, at least not as much as they used to. Back when he was an alter boy, the Pope and the cardinals and bishops exerted a mighty force over their flocks, it started falling apart in the 1970's. By the time I last attended a Catholic church as a member, I knew more Catholic men with a vasectomy (like myself) than non-Catholic men with one. One older guy at a Knights of Columbus after-meeting function (in the lounge of the local Mexican restaurant) acknowledged that a lot of the guys had rationalized it this way: better for them to commit one sin, one time, than to have their wives commit a little sin every day by taking the Pill.
Older Catholics who still think that JFK is President (or at least that's the way it oughta be) are firmly in the Rats' pockets, they don't stop long enough to think about abortion. As long as those nasty, Protestant Republicans are stopped at the polls, they don't care what Rat politicians do. I've met more that way than I care to count up.
Stupid comment. Actually Catholics tend to be more pro gay marriage and pro abortion that Protestants do (although in the latter instance, the numbers are about even), at least if you count all nominal Catholics as Catholics, which clearly the 40% Catholic figure in New Hampshire that Flynn cited includes.
Is Flynn still drinking?
The Catholic League has been trying for months to get the DNC to take Catholics For Free Choice off their web site as a Catholic site.
As far as changes in the Catholic church go, do they still teach that people go to hell for masturbation? They still would have a massive problem with my three divorces!
These men did not understand what a sin really is. The sin was not confined to the day they had the vasectomy. Every time they congratulated themselves on their cleverness, and were glad that they'd had the vasectomy, they were ratifying the sin. In a sense, they were committing it over again each time they ratified it again with their will.
I hear what you are saying but I do not like the idea of my religion being misrepresented by another organization, especially one like, Catholics For Free Choice.
If Dean said this then he is truly a whacko. Five or six counties in Missouri have more farms than Vermont has square mileage.
Vermont is a tiny state.
Catholic League president William Donohue spoke to this matter today: “I have written to DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe imploring him to ‘act quickly and decisively by removing Catholics for a Free Choice from the DNC’s links of interest organizations.’ The very fact that this group was the only Catholic listing on its website until this week is mind-boggling: it suggests that the DNC believes its Catholic base is led by Frances Kissling. The DNC knows CFFC is bogus yet continues to provide cover for it.
“It is flatly wrong to tag CFFC as merely a ‘pro-choice’ group of ex-Catholics. Kissling has openly admitted that it is her goal to ‘overthrow’ the Catholic Church. That is why she works so hard to subvert the Church by attempting to get the Holy See kicked out of the U.N. Twice the U.S. bishops have condemned CFFC as a fraud, yet the DNC amazingly gives legitimacy to this anti-Catholic front group.
Scroll down to check the number of dead -- it can change right before your eyes.
Go to dissent -- http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/
Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC) Promotes artificial contraceptive "rights," including abortion. Their focus is the "intersection of Catholic teaching and public policy." Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Member of Catholic Organizations for Renewal. They have been condemned by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB).
That is correct, I went to the DNC website for the first time, clicked Links, Religious and found "Catholics for a Free Choice". So it seems like the Democrats are Only interested in Pro-Abortion Catholics.
It follows then, those not following the Pope vote Democrat. Hmmm, shouldn't the church make efforts to correct those not following the Pope, including our Politicians?
My daughter turns 18 this year and is looking forward to voting in the Fall. She can't stand the Democrats!
The only way to know is to ask a priest. Remember the parable of the lost sheep.
Here is a place to start. Click on the link. ONCE CATHOLIC
Yes, I realize that they were rationalizing it away like a pack of lawyers. But, they (and I) were just doing something that every other branch of Christendom, and most other world religions find responsible, they were taking effective means of limiting their family size to what they could afford.
The idea that we were put on this earth solely to be breeding machines, in a world of over five billion people already, was one of the thousand reasons I had to leave the Catholic church. The same kind of justifications those men made for doing what they did two decades ago, I have seen in the recent pedophile priest scandal, so the attitude that was displayed by the laity extends to the clergy.
Every single Christian church taught that the use of contraception is a species of sodomy, until 1930, when the Anglicans "approved" its use. Now they are ordaining sodomite bishops and persecuting those who resist.
I guess that could mean letting one's marriage fall into being a sexless relationship, no thanks. How about the concept of bringing the consequences of sexual activity under control? That's all conception control is. Comparisons of contraception to sodomy are going to give sodomy a better name, something the gay marriage folks are already trying to do. I guess that's why the SCOTUS had to create privacy out of thin air, because the Connecticut legislature used religious thinking to define what a married couple could do in their own bedrooms. Now, we have that same privacy concept being expanded in ways that no one thought possible in 1967.
Ray Flynn was Clinton's only pro-life apointee as U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican from 1993-97 and was Mayor of Boston from 1984-93.
He supported President Bush in 2000 and will vote for him again in 2004.
What, I think, he was saying in the article was that he was chastizing Catholic Politicians for selling out their faith for votes and the democat party for ignoring the Catholics and the Catholic Vote, deep down he wants his party to be the way it was, pro-life, pro-Catholic, blue collar, etc.
And what he really wants, is a united Catholic Vote. He's got a lot of work ahead of him thanks to the liberal bishops and Catholics in general.
Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.comPresident of Your Catholic Voice, former mayor of Boston, former president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican during the Clinton Administration, and author of “The Accidental Pope” and “John Paul II” - Ray Flynn is a man on a mission.
Wednesday, July 28, 2004
Unabashedly pro-life, pro-family and pro-needy, Flynn has been president since May 2003 of YCV, a non-partisan independent Catholic lay organization dedicated to “motivating, educating and activating Catholic citizens for political and social participation.”
His mantra: “Catholics have become spectators in American politics, not active players.”
Flynn is out to change all that, but suggests that he doesn’t get much help from the Catholic politicians. “Catholic politicians feel they have to compromise their Catholic principles and values to get ahead, he told NewsMax in an exclusive interview.
"The popular line of the day for Catholic elected officials on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage is, ‘I’m personally opposed, but I don’t want to impose my own values and beliefs on other people.’"
"Amazingly, this has become the political response that satisfies both Catholic voters and opponents to Church teaching."
Although not taking specific aim at the nation’s most prominent Catholic politician these days – John Kerry – the description fits. Kerry is the first Roman Catholic from a major political party to seek the presidency in 44 years.
Although Flynn has not formally endorsed Kerry, he has expressed the belief that Kerry’s campaign needs a Catholic movement - a reaching out to Catholic voters.
Flynn maintains it could make a deciding difference in battlegrounds like Ohio, Wisconsin and New Mexico – states with large Catholic populations. Nearly 20 percent of Ohioans are Catholic, and the ratio is higher in cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Flynn suggests that Kerry could serve himself better by being more overt with his own faith. Instead, the candidate rarely gets personal about his faith on the campaign trail, stressing instead his strong belief in separation of church and state.
And Flynn’s complaint extends not just to the candidate but to the party he represents. “At one time, the Democratic Party fought for social and economic justice and was the party of blue-collar, working-class Catholic families," he said. "Today, the Democratic Party is controlled by wealthy, left-wing activists whose extreme political agenda, for the most part, excludes loyal, faithful and patriotic American Catholics.”
As president of a nonpartisan, tax-exempt organization, Flynn has been careful in choosing his words.
However, when Kerry last year suggested Pope John Paul II “crossed the line” by instructing Catholic politicians to block legalization of gay marriage, Flynn, a great admirer of the Pope, was pushed over the edge. “For Kerry to attack and address the Holy Father, the revered moral leader of over one billion Catholics worldwide, in that way was highly disrespectful and cynical.
"If a candidate for President does not understand that the family is the foundation and source of stability for society, I think he is out of touch with mainstream Americans.”
But candidate Kerry may just be between a rock and a hard place when it comes to defining the role of his faith in his candidacy. Flynn says, “It’s different to 40 years ago. JFK, as a Catholic, had to convince non-Catholics that he would not take orders from the Pope. The challenge for Kerry is to convince Catholics that he is faithful to the values and traditions of the Catholic Church.”
Although Flynn laments that instead of attending civic and church meetings, Catholics are shopping in the malls or watching athletic events on TV, he does see hope on the horizon.
“Much to my surprise, young adults are getting involved more than I’ve ever seen before. I’ve seen it in San Francisco, Boston and cities throughout the United States.
"I also see it on college campuses — like Harvard and the University of San Francisco. It’s truly amazing — the sense of commitment these young Catholics women and men have.
”These are young people who have been positively influenced by the moral leadership of Pope John Paul II and are not afraid to get involved.
"A positive movement of young Catholics is building, not only in the United States, but also in many parts of the world. I personally saw the impact that Pope John Paul II has had on young people in my many trips with him over the years.”
In the run-up to the November elections, these are some of the important hearts and minds that Kerry must capture, says Flynn.
One older guy at a Knights of Columbus after-meeting function (in the lounge of the local Mexican restaurant) acknowledged that a lot of the guys had rationalized it this way: better for them to commit one sin, one time, than to have their wives commit a little sin every day by taking the Pill. >>>
It's not a one-time sin, every snipped Catholic male or tied female commits a mortal sin each time they have sex since they are preventing procreation and going against God's will. Genesis 38:8-10
The Cathechism says:
"...every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil." CCC 2370
So basically, anything a person does to block the possibility of life-giving that occurs during the sexual act, is wrong. It inhibits the total giving of yourself to your spouse, and totally shuts the door on God's involvement in this aspect of your life, which might at some point, be to have another child.
It's also a matter of surrendering to God. It's like saying "God, you can have every aspect of my life, I give myself totally to you, except for my sperm (or ovaries and uterus) -- those are mine."
The Bible is very clear on this in Deut 23:2 St. John Crysostom said that said that it is a satanic mulitation that is a slander to God's creation and that preventing a human soul from ever existing is worse than murder.
St. Augustine said take from marriage what marriage is and preventing children creates spouses that are joined in seduction not love. If the deed is done and you didn't know that it was a mortal sin it isn't a mortal sin but you must do everything in your power to get it reversed now that you know. This is God's world and we are His people we have no right to alter His plans.
Encyclical of Pope Paul VI on the regulation of birth
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/p...e-vitae_en.html
Catholics "who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time," are permitted to use the Natural Family Planning (NFP) method (i.e., abstain from sex during fertile period).
See this web page to learn more about NFP: http://www.ccli.org/
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