The Mysterious Death of George Patton

Fox News ^ | 4/27/06 | Oliver North

[spanalot]

Was General Patton's death the result of a traffic accident or was he the victim of an assassination plot? (By Stalin)

[Romanov]

"What is it with amnesia around here - everyone forgets we had the bomb for 4 years before the Russians stole the secret. "

Tsk, tsk, tsk. If you are going to continue to make it an ethnicity issue over a Soviets vs. the US issue, at least have the honesty to say the people who stole the secrets where led by Ukrainian NKVD agent Pavel Sudoplatov.

You surely aren't suggesting we should have nuked the Soviet Union?

[Romanov]

Nice try Comrade Ukrainian Nationalist. Those who can read will note my consistent criticism of Russian policies. Of course, you'll try to spin what I write to suit your holocaust denial pro-Ukrainian Red-Brown coalition leanings.

[spanalot]

"You surely aren't suggesting we should have nuked the Soviet Union?"

So I take it you disagree with Patton. Why the pretense then - you really don't support Patton at all.

Of course we should have nuked Moscow. It would have stopped the Genocide of 60 million in China, the US losses of over 100,000 in Korea and VietNam as well as Gazillion$ wasted on the Cold War - we could have used the resources to cure cancer and such.

[spanalot]

"You should also know that we had NO more bombs to drop"

Lots of people here going out of their way to make a fool of Patton - he asked for two bombs to get rid of the Russians and prevent the Genocide of 60 million and guess what - we had them!

"Chuck Hansen's great book U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History doesn't explicitly go into this question, but it does note that at the end of 1945 the U.S. owned a total of two atomic bombs, both Fat Man plutonium bombs. (This design became the standard U.S. nuclear weapon until into the 1950s.) He also notes that the weapons were short-lived, so it is possible that a) there were more than two bombs in the inventory when the war ended and even that b) the bombs on hand on December 31 had been assembled after August 15. "

[spanalot]

"Nice try Comrade Ukrainian Nationalist."

Do you have me confused with someone else? I was born in the US and wrote-in Ronald Reagan in 1972.

[spanalot]

"There were no 40,000 American POWs held by the Soviets."

Lots of people here trying to cover up for Stalin.

"Stalin learned what was happening and retaliated. He permanently "retained" the American and British soldiers whom he still held as bargaining chips. What did he do with them? He carted them to the Soviet Union where they lived the rest of their lives in the Russian gulags. How many American and British soldiers? Over 20,000 Americans and over 30,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers ! In fact, as the authors of Soldiers of Misfortune point out: "Starting in 1945, the Soviet Union became the second-largest employer of American servicemen in the world."

[AmericanDave]

We only had to stand up to Stalin. And our superior air power and artillery, not to forget nuclear techonology would have made Stalin settle for LESS of Europe. Patton KNEW..

[AmericanDave]

"We had NO bombs left as you have been repeatedly informed."

We could build MORE...... (George C. Scott voice:)while kicking Russky Ass!

[spanalot]

"He was claiming 50,000 earlier. Someone must have freed 10,000 between posts."

This is certainly one of the darkest secrets in betrayal in American History. And it is a cover up by the Left and other Usefull Idiots, as Stalin would call them.

I would not joke about the liquidation of these American Heros - you're in the wrong place for that.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0915765837/002-0802494-6188837?n=283155

[Romanov]

Nope - by your own words you're parents were in the GULag (but you refuse to name which one) and YOU claim to have been interrogated by the KGB - so which is it?

[Romanov]

Ha! You fall for all of the crackpots. Would you like a look at one of the authors of the book - a despicable person who PRETENDED to be a POW (a felony, btw):

"Here is an example of one individual who is a phony POW: "Dr." Larry Pistilli. Pistilli is one of the principal sources in a book by Mark Sauter and James Sanders, Soldiers of Misfortune. This book is touted by the MIA cult as telling the truth about the abandonment of US POWs from WWII and Vietnam. In fact, it is a collection of nonsense. Pistilli claims that he was assigned to I Corps in 1965 "working on special classified missions." He claims that he was captured, taken to a Vietnamese prison camp near the Chinese border where he observed Chinese and Soviet interrogators selecting US POWs for transport to China and the Soviet Union. There is one problem with this story. Pistilli never served in Vietnam, was never a POW. Pistilli was in the Army from August 3, 1964 to July 31, 1967. He was with the 57th Signal company in Korea. The rest of these clowns have equally phony stories."

[AmericanDave]

Yes, and I remember reading in the newspapers after the Soviet Union imploded, that we (actualy Pres Eisenhaur) abandoned U.S. Korean war POWS that the Chineese gave to the Russians. Why?, (I'm guessing here) because of fear of starting a nuclear war.

[SunnySide]

" The way I see it, the Good Lord created George Patton for one particular purpose. When that mission was finished, He called him home. "

You're brighter than previously thought.
God just made a notation next to your name.
God creates all of us in his image for one purpose or another is correct.
.... in the background the arena audience does the big wave.

[Romanov]

Come on guys, let's have a sanity check here.

1.) These claims have been checked, re-checked, checked,and checked again by the investigators at the Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office and were determined to be unfounded.
2.) The book (of which I have a copy) is filled with half-truths, downright lies, and misinterpreted information.
3.) The "Abandoned POW" claims would mean that Generals like Omar Bradley, a great American, and others like him were complicit in selling out American servicemen - something that would NEVER happen
4.) The "nuclear blackmail" scenario is completely ludicrous - a.) if you believe that then you think our country and our leaders are weak, and b.) if we succumbed to "nuclear blackmail" by the Soviets they would have used it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again to get what they want. The Cuban Blockade during the missile crisis would never have been attempted, we NEVER would have gotten involved in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, the first Gulf War, Libya, we never would have conducted airborne recon near the Soviet Union, Gary Powers NEVER would have flown over the Soviet Union, etc.

Furthermore, you would also have to believe that every president since Truman would have been complicit in the coverup - to include the greatest modern American president - Ronald Reagan.

It's time to get a gripo and start believing in your country again. Jeez.

[spanalot]

"Ha! You fall for all of the crackpots. Would you like a look at one of the authors of the book - a despicable person who PRETENDED to be a POW (a felony, btw):

"Here is an example of one individual who is a phony POW: "Dr." Larry Pistilli. Pistilli "

Sorry - the book is written by Sanders, Sauter, and Kirkwood. - no Pistilli.

But don't let me get in your way . Everyone has to eat.

And while your googling another ad hominem, its a good opportunity for the rest of us to read another excerpt of this fine book:

This horrible tale is well documented in Soldiers of Misfortune . Much of the evidence involves the eyewitness accounts of American POWs who barely missed being "liberated" by Stalin's forces. For example, the authors detail the story of three Americans held in a German POW camp — John L. Connolly, Carmen Gomez, and Joseph Friedl. One morning in 1945, they woke to find their German captives gone. Connolly and Gomez decided to head west in search of American forces. Friedl decided to wait for Russian "liberators." Their story will chill you:

But when the men tried to cross a bridge to the tantalizingly close American line, Red Army troops stopped them at gun point. "The Russians herded us into a bombed-out building. . . . When there were several hundred of us [Americans], they began to march back into Germany."

Wisely refusing to march away from their own lines, Connolly and about a dozen others ducked out of the column as it passed through town. Hours later, they ran across a team of American scout cars under the command of a brigadier general. "The Soviets are taking a column of American POWs back east," Connolly told the general. Flying into a rage, the American officer sped off to catch the column. But the POWs had vanished.

Joseph Friedl was taken back to the Soviet Union. He was one of the fortunate ones — he was released in 1946.

Another American soldier, Technical Sergeant D.C. Wimberly, was straggling back to American lines and found himself in the German town of Luckenwalde. The Germans were herding back a column of German POWs to the Soviet Union, but when a few men near the end of the column saw Wimberly's American flag on his uniform, they called out: "Hey! You American? We're American. I'm from Philadelphia . . . Boston . . . Chicago. Help me!"

Americans also compared German army records of how many Americans were held in the camps. It was not difficult to see that the Soviets had failed to return all of them.

So, why has all of this been kept secret from the American people? World War II has been billed as the "good war" — the war that justifies all subsequent foreign wars. And every student in every public school across America is taught that FDR was one of our country's greatest presidents.

How could the U.S. government tell the truth about what happened to American servicemen? To tell the truth would mean exposing American complicity in the murder of over a million innocent Russian people. It would entail a closer examination of the Allied alliance with one of the most brutal political regimes in all of history. And it would expose all the scheming and machinations that resulted in the abandonment of over 50,000 Allied soldiers to our communist "friends."

[Romanov]

True, based on the work of Pistilli - a phoney POW.

Here's what happened. Some Americans did find themselves behind the Soviet lines after their camps were overrun. MOST of these men are accounted for. Others died in Soviet camps and/or hospitals. If you actually knew more about the subject you would know that activities like this are going on daily:

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/sovietunion/AAR_Ver_2Sent2ASDISA.pdf

But keep on slamming your country and accusing them of being in cahoots with communist scum.

[Romanov]

"How could the U.S. government tell the truth about what happened to American servicemen? To tell the truth would mean exposing American complicity in the murder of over a million innocent Russian people. It would entail a closer examination of the Allied alliance with one of the most brutal political regimes in all of history. And it would expose all the scheming and machinations that resulted in the abandonment of over 50,000 Allied soldiers to our communist "friends." "

Do your math spanalot. The 50,000 (oh, now it's "Allied") include those lost in France, Belgium, Germany (Western half), at sea in the Pacific and Atlantic, in Asia, etc. The actual numbers of those who were lost in the Soviet areas of activity are extremely low and do not approach the numbers you cite. Likewise, I would like to see some actual historical (NARA records for example) that can support your claim we sent 1 million Russians to their deaths (I've read some info about it on the net and if true it's disgusting, but your numbers don't add up at all).

[Romanov]

Educate yourself and pay attention to the personnel accounting statistics listed:

"World War II Working Group
The World War II Working Group of the U.S.-Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs is co-chaired on the American side by Dr. Timothy K. Nenninger, Chief of Modern Military Records at the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration in College Park, Maryland. The position of the Russian co-chair has been vacant since the Russian side began a thorough reorganization in June 2004. The Working Group has exchanged and examined thousands of documents dealing with the fates of American and Soviet POWs during and after World War II.

Through its investigative efforts, the World War II Working Group has confirmed that there were about 28,000 American Prisoners of War held by the Germans and their allies in camps on the Eastern Front. These prisoners came under Soviet control in the war’s final days, when the Red Army liberated the camps and occupied this territory. U.S. records show that about 25,000 of these POWs returned directly across the lines to U.S. military control. More than 2,800 others were returned to U.S. military control through the Soviet Black Sea port of Odessa (now Ukraine).

The World War II Working Group is investigating the possibility that some American POWs who remain unaccounted for from the Eastern camps may have been transferred to Soviet labor camps and were never repatriated.

The working group has also helped the Russians clarify the fates of more than 300,000 former Soviet POWs and displaced persons.



Wreckage of a U.S. Navy PV1 bomber found on Kamchatka Peninsula
in the Russian Far East. The seven crewmembers of this aircraft were
accounted for after the Commission sponsored a JPAC recovery operation
at this site in August 2001.

In August 2000, a joint mission led by General Roland Lajoie, U.S. Commission
Chairman, and Russian General-Major Konstantin Golumbovskiy traveled to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Russia’s Far East to investigate a crash site that was reported to the U.S. side’s Moscow office by a Russian historian from Kamchatka.

The wreckage they found was identified as that of a U.S. Navy PV1 bomber that crashed on Kamchatka in March 1944 with seven men on board. The crew members were identified, DPMO located the families to report what it learned concerning the fates of their loved ones, and a full recovery operation was conducted in 2001. All seven crew members were accounted for as a result of this mission.

Since then, DPMO has made two more expeditions to the harsh terrain and climate of the Kamchatka Peninsula. In August 2004, JCSD researchers discovered the wreckage of a World War II-era U.S. Army Air Forces B-24 bomber at Vestnik Bay. After analyzing all visible wreckage, JCSD researchers continue efforts to ascertain the identity of the crew and are seeking a return visit to the site with JPAC teams to conduct a more extensive investigation of buried and partially-buried elements that might facilitate identification.


JCSD investigators examine a fragment of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-24 bomber found at Vestnik
Bay on the Kamchatka Peninsula, August 2004.

JCSD continues its important research efforts within Russia to uncover new information that could help clarify the fates of missing Americans. In an effort to make its search more efficient and to broaden the possible sources of information available to it, DPMO will initiate research contracts with two more Russian archives that are believed to contain promising World War II records.

Additionally, the World War II Working Group continues to spearhead U.S. accounting efforts in Central Europe, where it maintains around 293 active cases of missing American servicemen in a number of nations. Two sites within the region are believed to contain the remains of missing American service members, and these have been identified for recovery operations. Two additional sites also are being evaluated for future recovery attempts. Field and analytical work in Hungary have provided valuable information on the circumstances of loss surrounding a dozen incidents encompassing over 20 unaccounted-for U.S. airmen. Additionally, JCSD research has directly accessed numerous foreign archives (Russia, Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Poland, and the Czech Republic), which has provided specific information on U.S. loss cases validated by site visits and interviews with witnesses. JCSD investigators have initiated important cooperative relations with governmental and other professional research entities in Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Croatia, and Romania in an effort to advance inquiries in those nations."

You were saying?

[x5452]

The faces that made the famine happen:

Stanislaw Kosior


Vlas Chuba

[AmericanDave]

"These claims have been checked, re-checked, checked,and checked again by the investigators at the Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office and were determined to be unfounded."

So you're saying our gov't has checked the allegations and issued a report saying they are not true. Name ONE instance where our gov't has admitted ANY mistake.

I just read "The flyboys" we are just learning about the attrocities our gov't covered up about our ENEMY. Parents and siblings not told what was KNOWN TO HAVE HAPPENED, until 40 years later! It's been on the best seller list, no one claims it's B.S. How much less will our gov't admit about it's OWN mistakes.

How about the nuclear testing with troops watching in the desert? How many years till that was acknowleged, and then only because there were ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPHS of the event showing the troops!

Why was Mcarthur dismissed? Truman was afraid the General would get us in a war with the Soviets!

I'm sorry, but I trusted my government COMPLETELY untill about 10 years ago. Now I know that it is as weak as the weakest politician......

There ARE and HAVE BEEN many FINE AND UPSTANDING people who have given their all for our country, but there have been too many traitors and weak people in our own Gov't then as today....

R.E. the Cuban Missle crises, Kennedy DID BACK DOWN! We pulled our missles out of Turkey on the QT, which was the original Soviet Demand! We just did it quietly. He traded Turkey for Cuba. But he saved face.....

Patton, just like McArthur; KNEW THE TRUTH.