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Scientists Unravel Mystery of Ancient Greek Machine
Live Science ^ | Wed Nov 29, 1:25 PM ET | Ker Than

Posted on 11/29/2006 3:44:39 PM PST by Redcitizen

Scientists have finally demystified the incredible workings of a 2,000-year-old astronomical calculator built by ancient Greeks.

A new analysis of the Antikythera Mechanism [image], a clock-like machine consisting of more than 30 precise, hand-cut bronze gears, show it to be more advanced than previously thought—so much so that nothing comparable was built for another thousand years.

"This device is just extraordinary, the only thing of its kind," said study leader Mike Edmunds of Cardiff University in the UK. "The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right…In terms of historical and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa."

The researchers used three-dimensional X-ray scanners to reconstruct the workings of the device's gears and high-resolution surface imaging to enhance faded inscriptions on its surface.

Precise astronomy

The new analysis reveals that the device's front dials had pointers for the sun and Moon—called the "golden little sphere" and "little sphere," respectively—and markings which coincided with the zodiac and solar calendars. The back dials, meanwhile, appear to have been used for predicting solar and lunar eclipses.

The researchers also show that the device could mechanically replicate the irregular motions of the Moon, caused by its elliptical orbit around the Earth, using a clever design involving two superimposed gear-wheels, one slightly off-center, that are connected by a pin-and-slot device.

The team was also able to pin down the device's construction date more precisely. Radiocarbon dating suggested it was built around 65 BC, but newly revealed lettering on the machine indicate a slightly older construction date of 150 to 100 BC. The team's reconstruction also involves 37 gear wheels, seven of which are hypothetical.

"In the face of fragmentary material evidence, such guesswork is inevitable. But the new model is highly seductive, and convincing in all of its detail," wrote Francois Charette, a researcher at the Ludwig-Maximilians University in Germany who was not involved in the study, in a related article in the journal Nature.

Discovered in 1900

Pieces of the ancient calculating machine were discovered by sponge divers exploring the remains of an ancient shipwreck off the tiny island of Antikythera in 1900. For decades, scientists have been trying to figure out how the device's 80 fragmented pieces fit together and unlock its workings.

Previous reconstructions suggested the Antikythera Mechanism was about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within. By winding a knob on its side, the positions of the sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus could be determined for any chosen date. Newly revealed inscriptions also appear to confirm previous speculations that the device could also calculate the positions of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn—the other planets known at the time.

The international team, led by Edmunds and Tony Freeth, also of Cardiff University, included astronomers, mathematicians, computer experts, script analysts and conservation experts from the UK, Greece and the United States.

The researchers plan to create a computer model of how the Antikythera Mechanism worked and eventually a working replica.

The team's findings will be presented in a two-day international conference in Athens and published in the Nov. 30 issue of the journal Nature.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antikythera; antikytheramechanism; astronomy; godsgravesglyphs; stars; time
The Original Timex.
1 posted on 11/29/2006 3:44:42 PM PST by Redcitizen
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To: Redcitizen

ike Edmunds of Cardiff University in the UK. "The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right…In terms of historical and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa."


Spoken like a scientist. I agree with him but then I think a Gulfstream IV is far more beautiful than anything modern art ever produced.


2 posted on 11/29/2006 3:51:14 PM PST by saganite (Billions and billions and billions-------and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: Redcitizen

Something to bring up the next time somebody on the Apocalypto boards gushes on about how advanced the Mayans were...


3 posted on 11/29/2006 3:51:20 PM PST by ClaudiusI
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To: Redcitizen
We all know it was made by aliens.
4 posted on 11/29/2006 3:54:07 PM PST by ElkGroveDan ( What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?)
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To: Redcitizen

The history of the history of this machine is extensive on FR.


5 posted on 11/29/2006 3:55:44 PM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
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To: Redcitizen

The History Channel did an interesting show about this device. I think it was an episode of "Ancient Mysteries." Its all very interesting.


6 posted on 11/29/2006 3:57:05 PM PST by Aetius
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To: saganite
I agree with him but then I think a Gulfstream IV is far more beautiful than anything modern art ever produced.

Heck, my dog produces anything more beautiful than anything modern art ever produced, and he does it on a regular basis.

7 posted on 11/29/2006 3:58:05 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Redcitizen

8 posted on 11/29/2006 3:58:27 PM PST by gridlock (We just got dumped. McCain and Rudy are Rebound Guys. Let's not marry the Rebound Guy.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

Has your dog applied for a NEA grant?


9 posted on 11/29/2006 4:00:02 PM PST by saganite (Billions and billions and billions-------and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: Redcitizen

WEll, now the question.

Does the sun go around the earth or the earth go around the sun on this calculator.


10 posted on 11/29/2006 4:04:31 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Redcitizen

I bet the guy in Egypt, Rome or Carthage who had bought it had a real bad day when he found out the ship went down.


11 posted on 11/29/2006 4:04:44 PM PST by KellyAdmirer
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To: Redcitizen
Its purpose is clear... it was the original bilge pump.


12 posted on 11/29/2006 4:14:58 PM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: gridlock

Duct tape dispenser?


13 posted on 11/29/2006 4:16:40 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: SunkenCiv
ping
14 posted on 11/29/2006 4:19:18 PM PST by kitchen (Over gunned? Hell, that's better than the alternative!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; Redcitizen
Does the sun go around the earth or the earth go around the sun on this calculator.

It appears that they understood retrograde motion well enough to accurately show it in their machine..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6191462.stm

I also found it interesting that it is surmised this calculator may have been "mass produced".. ( near the end of the linked article.. )

15 posted on 11/29/2006 4:23:30 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom... Not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Redcitizen
Here's the reconstruction:


16 posted on 11/29/2006 4:26:58 PM PST by Stultis
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To: gridlock

The original Flux Capacitor...


17 posted on 11/29/2006 4:27:40 PM PST by WestVirginiaRebel (Common sense will do to liberalism what the atomic bomb did to Nagasaki-Rush Limbaugh)
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To: kitchen

Thanks, kitchen. Believe it or not, there were two others today (that I know of).


18 posted on 11/29/2006 4:29:28 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: ElkGroveDan

Maybe humans are the "aliens"? Makes more sense than some of the crazy theories out there.


19 posted on 11/29/2006 4:34:44 PM PST by Freedom4US (u)
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To: Redcitizen; SunkenCiv

Pingyroo.


20 posted on 11/29/2006 4:39:31 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
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To: Redcitizen

The Greeks also built an amazing array of devices, including the first steam-engine - as an amusing toy. A few different choices by ancient scientists and rulers and history might have been quite different. We lost about 1500 years to the 'dark ages'. Guess we weren't ready to make the technological leap when so much slave labor was available and life was cheap...


21 posted on 11/29/2006 4:47:56 PM PST by Al Simmons
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To: Redcitizen
Do any surviving ancient texts describe such a mechanism or even causally mention it? To bad the Library at Alexandria went up in flames and the Muslims used the rest for toilet paper - the drawings for it were probably in there and who knows what else.
22 posted on 11/29/2006 4:53:50 PM PST by muleskinner
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To: Redcitizen

What was the original statement about it? "We're not sure what it is or what it does ,but we expect the Chinese to mass produce em and ship em over to the USA for the Christmas retail season" !!!


23 posted on 11/29/2006 5:28:06 PM PST by Obie Wan
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To: saganite

"This device is just extraordinary, the only thing of its kind,"

We don't really know if this is the only thing of its kind. It is the only thing like this we have found. I wouldn't be surprised if we looked a little closer at some of the museum collections and recovered shipwreck debris we might just find evidence that this kind of thing was more common than we realize. Who would've thought there would've been trade routes between the "New" world and the "Old" during the time of the Egyptian dynasties but there is increasing evidence of this now that some chemical tests run on Egyptian mummies had found traces of plant products native to the Americas, such as tobacco and coca. Some claim contamination but the tests were done in such a fashion that this is unlikely.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/mummies.htm


24 posted on 11/29/2006 5:39:01 PM PST by Maelstorm (Power isn't something that is easily shared. It can not be evenly and fairly divided.)
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To: Maelstorm

I agree these things were probably more common in the past but it's a one of a kind artifact now. We've consistently underestimated the abilities of our ancestors because modern technology seems so extraordinary we can't imagine ancients found different answers to current problems long ago.

I'm waiting for the discovery that the ancient Egyptians/Athenians/Romans had already solved the energy crisis!


25 posted on 11/29/2006 5:47:38 PM PST by saganite (Billions and billions and billions-------and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: Redcitizen

It even makes provisions for daylight savings time!


26 posted on 11/29/2006 5:52:12 PM PST by Nasty McPhilthy (Those who beat their swords into plow shears….will plow for those who don’t.)
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To: Redcitizen

They didn't find "casino" engraved anywhere?


27 posted on 11/29/2006 5:53:16 PM PST by AZRepublican ("The degree in which a measure is necessary can never be a test of the legal right to adopt it.")
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To: saganite
ike Edmunds of Cardiff University in the UK. "The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right…In terms of historical and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa."


Spoken like a scientist. I agree with him but then I think a Gulfstream IV is far more beautiful than anything modern art ever produced.


I was thinking the same thing about my TIVO box. :)
28 posted on 11/29/2006 9:30:36 PM PST by CountryBumpkin (Liberals are on the left side of the IQ scale. Conservatives are on the right side.)
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To: AZRepublican
They didn't find "casino" engraved anywhere?

Or a few skeletons of ancient Siberian descent?
29 posted on 11/29/2006 9:36:34 PM PST by CountryBumpkin (Liberals are on the left side of the IQ scale. Conservatives are on the right side.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Thanks Dave. I'm no longer sure, but I think there were six topics about this update to the Antikythera device story. Fascinating piece of ancient engineering.


30 posted on 11/29/2006 10:17:36 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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31 posted on 11/29/2006 10:17:50 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Redcitizen

Actually this was the first clock that was right twice a day. No moving parts involved.


32 posted on 11/29/2006 10:24:48 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: AZRepublican

Did you mean Casio?


33 posted on 11/30/2006 3:30:46 PM PST by Redcitizen (This tagline is 100 percent Trans Fat free)
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To: SunkenCiv

The GGG list sounds like a good ping to me. Please add me to your list. Thanks!


34 posted on 11/30/2006 3:33:19 PM PST by Redcitizen (This tagline is 100 percent Trans Fat free)
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To: Redcitizen

Will do!


35 posted on 11/30/2006 7:50:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Redcitizen
The new analysis reveals that the device's front dials had pointers for the sun and Moon...

Was this device calibrated to be heliocentric?
36 posted on 11/30/2006 7:51:55 PM PST by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: operation clinton cleanup

Looks like a candidate for some WD-40.


37 posted on 11/30/2006 7:55:55 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: saganite
Has your dog applied for a NEA grant?

Wwhat's scary about that question; if he did, he'd probably get it!

38 posted on 11/30/2006 8:06:39 PM PST by AFreeBird (If American "cowboy diplomacy" did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it.)
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To: Al Simmons
Guess we weren't ready to make the technological leap when so much slave labor was available and life was cheap...

Will Durant's opinion was that the Roman leaders were afraid that technological progress would destroy jobs. Some things never change.

39 posted on 11/30/2006 8:08:42 PM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: Redcitizen
Kind of OT, but still way cool.
40 posted on 11/30/2006 8:10:15 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

Cool Indeed!


41 posted on 12/01/2006 6:58:19 AM PST by Redcitizen (This tagline is 100 percent Trans Fat free)
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To: Redcitizen

I think it said 'Rolodex'.


42 posted on 12/01/2006 7:06:08 AM PST by Hatteras
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43 posted on 10/05/2010 7:59:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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