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Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?
vanity | April 21, 2007 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Do you really expect me to do that?

TOPICS: Extended News; Free Republic; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alaska; US: Arizona; US: New York; Your Opinion/Questions
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To: Maynerd

He does seem a bit harsh tonight.

601 posted on 04/21/2007 9:08:49 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: rockrr; Peach; Mia T; quidnunc

I would like to have the rudy crowd not silenced.

Mia T; Quidnunc and more are suspended or banned.

They support a gun grabbing north-eastern liberal.

They are very anti-clinton, but very pro rudy.

Mia t does an especially good job on clinton.

I like to read their opinions.

Peach has done a hellavu job here, despite her defending Rudy.

I would rather have her here arguing, than not.

602 posted on 04/21/2007 9:09:03 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Just say no to Brady Bunch Republicans.)
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To: Syncro
It’s a smelter. The dross rises to the top and is skimmed off.

Now if they'd just flux the charge to keep impurities from falling back into the crucible, we might have a decent pour.
603 posted on 04/21/2007 9:09:09 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedanism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: OldFriend
So it is perfectly acceptable to completely and totally ignore the electorate (notice not necessarily just your base) and not expect to take a hit, then yes the Republicans didn’t deserve to lose. Viewed from the perspective that a national political party should actually listen to what the public tries to tell them, the Republicans got what they deserved served up in Spades.

The Republicans originally went to Washington, D.C. as a small government, anti-welfare, pro-defence, free market party. In 2006 they went to the polls looking like a corrupt, big government, scandalized, pro-illegal, pro China, pro mega corporation party. Much of this view was deserved.

Demmocrats had nothing in 2004 and 2006. Neither did the Republicans really, and it finally caught up to them in 2006. The Republicans have no one at all to blame but themselves. They haven’t learned a thing, unfortunately.

604 posted on 04/21/2007 9:09:14 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (It is better to die than to live as a slave.)
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To: Fishrrman; Jim Robinson

Sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war.

I won’t support this “win” just so we can lose the war on socialism. Nope, won’t do it.

605 posted on 04/21/2007 9:09:48 PM PDT by colorcountry (He Who the Son Has Set Free, Is Free Indeed)
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To: Peach

Keep up the good work.

Not everyone on FR is nuts, appearances on this thread notwithstanding.

606 posted on 04/21/2007 9:10:00 PM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Peach
I think you are reading far too much into this thing. Some people just like and support Rudy. That's all there is to it. To wit...

Papa Bush heaps praise on Rudy- (today's NY Daily News)

"Rudy Giuliani won some high praise from President Bush's father yesterday while politicking deep in the heart of Texas. "It was in his courage under fire starting the morning of Sept. 11 that the world saw the best of Rudy Giuliani," former President George H.W. Bush declared, introducing the former mayor to about 2,500 people at Texas A&M University in College Station. "We saw a genuine leader," he said.

Giuliani drew applause with his 30-minute speech in which he tied America's freedom and prosperity to victory in the war on terror. "We're going to have to win the war on terror, or as I call it, the terrorists' war on us," he said. "It's the greatest challenge of our generation."

607 posted on 04/21/2007 9:10:04 PM PDT by veronica
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To: politicalwit

The Republican party has been moving to the center/left for some time now. It’s not me who hijacked it and I don’t like it and have said so.

Apparently fiscal conservativism and law and order conservatism don’t mean a darned thing and social conservatism is all the rage now and if one thinks that national security trumps all (like I do), then one isn’t a true blue conservative. Gosh, the things we can learn on Free Republic.

608 posted on 04/21/2007 9:10:17 PM PDT by Peach
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To: streetpreacher
I know you to be a loyal Republican. The fact that Rudy is affecting you and other loyalists this way tells me that for the first time in modern politics, the GOP runs the risk of allowing a true third party threat to take shape in 2008. They won’t be able to win but it will ensure a Hillary presidency. She must be loving the idea of a Rudy nomination.

I have said for the past 5 years, that we will probably see a third party in'08! I don't hold claim to being a learned scholar in politics.In fact I can't claim much else but common sense! But I DO know RIGHT from WRONG. I do know that what I have seen happen to our land and nation over the past 65 years of my life is not headed UP HILL, but only DOWN... We MUST be strong and couragous!! WE MUST stand for right , even if we are in the minority. Right now, it is too early to say who I would vote for President. I am listening, reading , observing and PRAYING. So far, I would say Duncan Hunter has the qualities and convictions that we hold in this household. Fred Thompson also.But I WILL OBEY GOD no matter what others do, period.

609 posted on 04/21/2007 9:10:57 PM PDT by pollywog (Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid,)
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To: skeeter

So this is a socially conservative web site. Period?

Hey, if Jim wants to ban all the freepers who think national security trumps social issues, he can have at it and you all enjoy that little echo chamber of yours.

610 posted on 04/21/2007 9:11:12 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach

I kinda like Rudy ...but I guess I better keep my mouth shut

611 posted on 04/21/2007 9:11:24 PM PDT by woofie
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To: quidnunc

You certainly wrote off Fred in a hurry. He’s not even in the race and he’s generating excitement.

612 posted on 04/21/2007 9:11:36 PM PDT by saganite (Billions and billions and billions----and that's just the NASA budget!)
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To: CheneyChick
Is that a threat?

Nope, it's called political reality

What happened to nice discussions around here?

When pushed enough I don't play well with others.

613 posted on 04/21/2007 9:12:47 PM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: flashbunny

That’s so sweet of you to keep track of my schedule. But truly I’m too fascinated by the meltdown to sleep right now.

614 posted on 04/21/2007 9:12:48 PM PDT by Peach
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Rudy has globalism written all over his past and all over his personna. It’s just not as eager, clueless and shrill as HARXIST’s is. Shrillery is merely FAR WORSE on those scores.

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To: rbmillerjr
All we need now to confirm it is a Rudybot poster or two to write some sanctimonious bs and announce they are leaving because the Freeper board is uhum...conservative.

Some already have. And then they formed their own damned liberal forum and they even have their own secret squirrel area there where they can plot stuff they're doing over here to disrupt and say bad things about the conservatives on FR.

616 posted on 04/21/2007 9:13:04 PM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: Jim Robinson

...well said, and I agree. Gingrich and/or Hunter would serve us best, IMO. The real campaigns haven’t yet begun.

617 posted on 04/21/2007 9:13:05 PM PDT by familyop (Essayons (has-been))
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To: FreeReign
"First you complained that I attacked you."

Don't think there was any complaining from this side... just a bunch of name calling from you..."Up yours, dope, stupid"

At least your consistent if nothing else.

618 posted on 04/21/2007 9:13:08 PM PDT by nctexan
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To: Blackirish
“plus he’s currently talking about a flat tax! No else will has even touched that!!!”

That is BS and you would know it if you ever read anything in these threads except what the Rooty Tooters post.

Rooty has never been for the flat tax and he isn’t now.

619 posted on 04/21/2007 9:13:43 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super Walmart for news .)
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To: SandRat
Let's join together for Conservatism and a Conservative Candidate.

..... and never underestimate OUR STRENGTH... if we stand together!!

620 posted on 04/21/2007 9:13:53 PM PDT by pollywog (Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid,)
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To: laurenmarlowe

“No Socialist politcian will get one dime from my hard work, from my earnings and my money. I am not working to pay for someone else to live, I am working to take care of myself and my family. No Socialist politcian will ever take away my absolute knowledge for right and wrong with regard to my freedom and rights as an American Citizen, the Articles Of The Constitution Of The United States Of America GUARANTEE my FREEDOM from ANYONE dictating that a government can take away my freedom. Thank GOD for the United States Of America.”

B U M P !!!!

621 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:03 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ( Hunter/Thompson/Thompson/Hunter in 08! Or Rudy/Hillary if you want to murder conservatism)
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To: Peach

It’s interesting that Poppy Bush introduced Rudy at an event at this juncture. Says something about how the Bush family views Rudy, I think...

622 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:19 PM PDT by veronica
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To: flashbunny
Detailed polls have shown most republicans don’t know rudy’s real record, and that they’d have trouble with someone with his positions. That is the truth. And as demonstrated by what has happened to his support here as the truth came out, that will follow in the rest of the country.

I do know that to be the case with several people I know. They like Rudy because of his handling of 9-11, but once they learned of his social positions on various issues, they weren't that impressed with him. They are looking at the other candidates more hopefully. I think a few were disappointed because they liked the 9-11 Rudy quite a lot.

623 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:19 PM PDT by Shelayne
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To: Jet Jaguar; Peach

I agree. Although I disagree with Peach’s pro-Rudy stance, I have no personal animus towards her, and have never disparaged her. Quite to the contrary, if I could give her a piece of advice, it would be to chill out for the evening and come back at it tomorrow.

Her posts have a deliberately provocative tone to them and the last time I saw that, it was by someone who is now referred to in the past tense...

624 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:24 PM PDT by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: woofie


You have no idea how loaded my mail is with people who don’t want to come out into the open and post their admiration and support for Rudy.

But think about his national frontrunner status and you’ll get an idea what my mail looks like.

625 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:25 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Reagan Man
The battle lines have been drawn on Free Republic.

The drama, the heroism... I can just hear you quote Buchanan " Let's ride to the sound of the guns!" Dope.

All the more reason you should retire from Free Republic. You're no conservative.

As self-appointed mod. - you can also have the title of "Socialist - Tyrannical - Totalitarian" It suits you well.

626 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:37 PM PDT by muleskinner
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To: Jim Robinson

Again, thank you and amen.

627 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:45 PM PDT by fullchroma
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To: veronica

Thanks for posting that, veronica. Now I’ll really have sweet dreams.

628 posted on 04/21/2007 9:14:55 PM PDT by Peach
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To: cicero's_son

LOL. Thank you, cicero!

629 posted on 04/21/2007 9:15:12 PM PDT by Peach
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Last time we had a Clinton in the white house with a democrat house and senate, two years with almost nothing happened

Umm, how about a ginormous tax increase?

630 posted on 04/21/2007 9:15:25 PM PDT by Uncledave
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To: veronica
Does FR become an anti-Rudy site?

If FR stand for what Jim says it should be. And I believe the numbers prove that it is an anti-Rudy site already.
631 posted on 04/21/2007 9:15:36 PM PDT by Delphinium
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To: beancounter13

Fever can be a bad thing, but it is necessary if the host is to fight the pathogen. I have beeen looked at oddly for saying if their is to be trouble let it come to me and let it spare my children.

It is true, most of us have no concept of sacrifice. Did anyone mention Sanjaya got voted off of Idol yet?

632 posted on 04/21/2007 9:16:29 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (It is better to die than to live as a slave.)
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To: Jim Robinson

I’m with you, Rudy should go back to the Democrat party and be running against the witch for the nomination.

633 posted on 04/21/2007 9:16:59 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: Peach
In a three way race, with a conservative third party candidate, Hillary will win. The national polls don't tell you that, not that I would trust them anyway.

Do you think it will be a three-way race vs a two-way race?

The Clinton's have done it twice before with a strong third party showing from Perot. This time, I think they will encourage a so-called conservative type. A few appearences on LKL (is that fossil even still on?) or maybe Lou Dobbs should do it.

Just enough conservative voters will be siphoned away. Never mind that this hypothetical conservative third party candidate wasn't serious enough to enter Republican primary.

Hillary would win.


634 posted on 04/21/2007 9:17:28 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Peach

“That’s so sweet of you to keep track of my schedule.”

don’t flatter yourself. You said you were going to bed awhile ago but keep posting.

635 posted on 04/21/2007 9:17:46 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: rockrr; Peach

On that I can agree.

636 posted on 04/21/2007 9:18:02 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Just say no to Brady Bunch Republicans.)
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To: Arizona Carolyn
Did you live in California then? I did.

No, I was a toddler in NJ, but I don't care if you were Reagan's next door neighbor. Claiming that Reagan was regarded as a liberal while Governor is a crock.

I guess when Reagan delivered his famous A Time for Choosing address in 1964 he was secretly a liberal.

637 posted on 04/21/2007 9:18:48 PM PDT by garv (Conservatism in '08
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To: Jet Jaguar

Thank you, Jet. You and I have known each other, via FR, for some time. I’ve posted and have bookmarked on my homepage how the left have lied about the Iraq/AQ connections and relationships going back 15 years.

I’ve encouraged freepers to contact their congressmen about the relationship, all in order to give Republicans the courage to fight the MSM.

I’m sure we can all think of liberals who’ve involved themselves in that sort of research and activism. /s

Regardless, I’ve watched Rudy with admiration since the early 90’s when I lived in CT and we got a lot of NYC news. I don’t expect everyone to choose my candidate, but neither do I expect that freepers should be banned because they are putting national security and fiscal restraint above social issues.

638 posted on 04/21/2007 9:18:52 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach
Hey, if Jim wants to ban all the freepers who think national security trumps social issues, he can have at it and you all enjoy that little echo chamber of yours.

Hey, I like the give & take of open discussion as much as anyone.

What I don't like is to see my deepest convictions trashed on a site that is supposed to be a haven for the like minded.

Although I wouldn't speak for the owner I suspect this is how how feels as well.

Instead of constructing straw man arguments maybe you should give this some thought.

639 posted on 04/21/2007 9:19:14 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: muleskinner
The battle lines have been drawn on Free Republic. The drama, the heroism... I can just hear you quote Buchanan " Let's ride to the sound of the guns!"

LOL! Well, I'm ready...

640 posted on 04/21/2007 9:19:20 PM PDT by veronica
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To: veronica

“It’s interesting that Poppy Bush introduced Rudy at an event at this juncture.”

“poppy” bush?

You mean the man who lost the election in 1992 because he abandoned conservatives?

641 posted on 04/21/2007 9:19:26 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Strategerist
“....Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: ‘sO-sh&-”li-z&m
Function: noun
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which....”

Thank you!!

642 posted on 04/21/2007 9:19:57 PM PDT by KATIE-O (Rudy Giuliani - '08 (But Only If We Want To Win!))
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To: woofie; jimrob
>>>>>> and I guess you are the arbiter for who is and is not conservative?

Jim Robinson is the arbiter on Free Republic, as to exactly who is a conservative and who isn't a conservative. Jim`s laid down the law and I support his decision. Wouldn't have remained an active member of FR for pushing eight years now, if I didn't support Jim`s standard rules and regulations. Guidleines that are in keeping with the conservative agenda. Pretty simple stuff btw. You've seen it before.

"As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc. We also oppose the United Nations or any other world government body that may attempt to impose its will or rule over our sovereign nation and sovereign people. We believe in defending our borders, our constitution and our national sovereignty.

I see nothing in that excellent conservative rant by Jim, which can be confused with the liberalism of Rudy Giuliani. Many longtime FReepers have been banned in recent days and weeks, for bashing cosnervative candidates and promoting the liberal abortionist Rudy Giuliani. My guess is, there will be more to come.

643 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:02 PM PDT by Reagan Man (FUHGETTABOUTIT Rudy....... Conservatives don't vote for liberals!)
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To: Beagle8U

644 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:21 PM PDT by Blackirish
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To: stephenjohnbanker
“The illegal alien problem was no where near as bad under Reagan”

It was a drop in the bucket. Reagan had no way of knowing that all of the constraints in the bill would be ignored.

Everyone knows this or should. It's a sham to even bring up this 22 year old decision.

Those that repeatedly bring this into the current political debate do so in an attempt to defend or justify those that continue to pander to this ever escalating problem.

645 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:26 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: Peach

Where is the big (at least bigger) tent?

646 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:28 PM PDT by woofie
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To: CharlesWayneCT; Jim Robinson
In my opinion, the rudy people were looking for something to pick them up. They are tired of losing every argument here, tired of not being able to defend their candidate to conservatives, and afraid that if they keep losing it will catch on.

The fact is, Rudy is doing more than his fair share to torpedo his own campaign than any of the numnutz here on FR who seem to think he is a latter day 'Mr Republican'. Rudy IS indefensible, and he is indefensible in most cases by a simple citation of his own past words and deeds. I mean, how damning is it when your own MOTHER states that you (meaning Rudy) "isn't a conservative Republican, he thinks he is, but he's not"? And goes on to say that Rudy only became a Republican "after he started getting all those jobs from them". For the dedicated RudyBot, that's a steep grade to climb.

It looks like some of them were chosen to be “sacrificial lambs”, to say things to get banned so they might gain sympathy, or at least to go off and claim that conservatives can’t win the argument against them and so we banned them.

I'm not sure if it's anything that grandiose, most of the RudyBot tactics consist of repetition, posting and re-posting the same blah-blah-blah all the time, always the 'ORCSUFH' (Only Rudy Can Save Us From Hillary) garbage, and when Rudy's moral character is challenged (3 marriages, 1 to his cousin), the standard response is to say "well, Ronald Reagan was divorced", as if there is some sort of moral parallel between our highly principled 40th President, and a former mayor of New York City who believed so much in the institution of marriage, that he kept working on it until 'third time's the charm'. The RudyBot strategy is generally to subtly (or not-so-subtly) trash REAL conservatives in order to build up their boy, and that is a losing strategy to be sure. I think the recent spraying of FR for RudyPests and RINOS demonstrates that the R-bots finally reached the saturation point and JimRob said 'this far and no further'.

I don’t know how to explain attacking the honor of Jim Robinson, telling the pro-life conservatives here that they will be responsible for the death of babies if they don’t pick a pro-abortion candidate, or arguing that the Republican Party should be led by a trained monkey so long as it means Hillary isn’t president.

It is spelled desperation. The RudyBots know their candidate is in serious trouble, that is why they are so eager to post ANY polling data that puts their guy in a good light, when they KNOW that polling data 18 months away from the general election is absolutely meaningless.
If FR was a lumber yard instead of a website, JimRob would be up to his armpits in termites by now, and thank God he's doing something about it. If the GOP did nominate that Stealth 'Rat Rudy, I think I'd be inclined to write in JimRob's name on my ballot.
647 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:34 PM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Good post

648 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:47 PM PDT by Uncledave
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To: rockrr

I appreciate your kind advice. I mean that.

However, my tolerance level has been severely strained since the evening Rudy supporters were called treasonous liberals; hence the provocative tone.

Words have meaning and when management and others choose to call Rudy supporters treasonous, what do we call the Jane Fonda’s of the world?

649 posted on 04/21/2007 9:20:57 PM PDT by Peach
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To: stephenjohnbanker

BUMP to you SJB! Looking forward to chattin’ with you soon.

650 posted on 04/21/2007 9:21:06 PM PDT by laurenmarlowe
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