Is an Eclipse Described in the Odyssey (and does it date the return of Odysseus to Penelope)

Proceedings of the National Academy of Science June 2008 ^ | June 2008 | Marcelo Magnasco

[wildbill]

“Now when did Odysseus return to Penelope? The date is given with a precision most unusual in epic poetry.”

"Because the lines describing the alleged eclipse are considered suspect, we shall use other passages in the Odyssey to shed some light on the issue, without assuming an eclipse. Given an interpretation of certain passages in the Odyssey as describing astronomical phenomena, we will look for dates in which the phenomena match. We shall find that the most likely day matching these other phenomena is 16 April 1178 B.C., suggesting there may be corroborating information in the epic for the eclipse hypothesis. In other words, the passages we analyze appear to cohere.

Two important caveats: first, that if our interpretation of such passages as astronomical phenomena were incorrect, our calculation of dates and their probability or improbability would also be incorrect; and second, that even if correct, we get no indication whether the events narrated in the epic did happen.

[wildbill]

The case is still open that the Odyssey or the Illiad are based on actual events, but we know that oral traditions in many primitive cultures even today play an important part in passing down actual events from their heritage.

To me, The fascinating thing aboout the work of archeologists and scientists today is how these disciplines often corroborate the Bible or other oral traditions.

[nmh]

Cultures around the world have “oral traditions” of a worldwide flood. Still people don't want to believe it.

I also find i fascinating that drawings of primitive people DRAW ACCURATE pictures of dinosaurs with people. Still people don't want to hear or see that. The evidence of the accuracy of the Bible is there for ALL who wish to SEE.

[Red Badger]

ggg ping!...........

[WoofDog123]

I read most of the actual report. Assuming the actual astronomical phenomena were investigated properly as far as alignments etc., this is very unlikely to be coincidental. A stunning amount of detail to lead to a single date by 2 totally independent methods in a piece that was centuries old when finally written down.

[ottbmare]

Can you post a link to a photo of a cave-drawing made by primitive people that shows a dinosaur and a human together? I haven’t had the opportunity to see this sort of drawing.

[Rufii]

I also find i fascinating that drawings of primitive people DRAW ACCURATE pictures of dinosaurs with people.

[nmh]

Sure.

View it for yourself on Netflix

Dragons or Dinosaurs: Creation or Evolution (2010)
Mythological representations of dragons appear in cultures worldwide, often resembling dinosaur species identified through their fossilized remains. Could this mean dragon legends are rooted in reality? This documentary seeks to find out. Interviews with researchers indicate that the existence of dinosaurs might actually help support the biblical story of creation and explain other mysteries of our cosmic origins.

Cast: Not Available
Director: Andre Van Heerden
Genre: Documentary
Format: DVD and streaming
Not rated. This movie has not been rated by the MPAA.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Dragons-or-Dinosaurs-Creation-or-Evolution/70132869?
strkid=576714844_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strackid=58b271d11b1e371a_0_srl&trkid=222336

Here’s a book on it:

Are dragon stories the result of overactive imaginations or reality?
Most people believe that dragons are the stuff of fantasy. But, dragon legends can be found around the world—amazingly similar, compelling, and difficult to simply dismiss as baseless tales or mere lore. This fascinating new book traces the evidence for these creatures throughout Europe, China, the USA, South America, Greece, the United Kingdom, Babylon, and elsewhere. Whether battling saints or terrorizing Aztec Indians and medieval maidens, these creatures provide a fascinating link to man’s true history, and a shadowy mystery—lingering just beyond the edges of our understanding. This high-quality, full-color book includes creative doors, panels, and booklets throughout. Appeals to nearly all ages.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/product/Dragons-Legends-Lore-of-Dinosaurs,6818,184.aspx

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

The article is interesting.

[KingLudd]

The shot of Raquel Welch with the dino in 10 million B.C. is usually good enough proof for me. Anyone?

[Claud]

I agree with the premise that dragon legends are based on the dinosauria. But you don’t have to have humans and dinosaurs existing at the same time to get there.

People who hunted and raised animals certainly knew basic animal anatomy. If they found skeletons in the ground they would be able to reconstruct them to some degree.

http://www.amazon.com/First-Fossil-Hunters-Paleontology-Times/dp/0691058636

[nmh]

“I agree with the premise that dragon legends are based on the dinosauria. But you don’t have to have humans and dinosaurs existing at the same time to get there.”

It's tough for a HUMAN to draw a dinosaur if they did NOT exist at the same time. All over the world, HUMANS have drawn dinosaurs that resemble dinosaurs. It is impossible to draw dinosaurs if they didn't coexist. WHY are you so resistant to common sense?

“People who hunted and raised animals certainly knew basic animal anatomy. If they found skeletons in the ground they would be able to reconstruct them to some degree.”

LOL!

No, the HUMANS that drew the dinosaurs weren't guessing. The odds that humans could draw dinosaurs all over the world are astronomical. You simply can't have a HUMAN in the U.S. draw the same kind of dinosaur than one did in China. It's simply not feasible. Humans and dinosaurs coexisted and that is WHY the drawings drawn by early humans are evidence.

Yes, the evidence disagrees with evolutionists. You simply can't have humans drawing images of dinosaurs that we can readily identify today if humans and dinosaurs did not coexist. These humans drew what they saw around them. It's really that simple.

[nmh]

View the evidence here:
View it for yourself on Netflix

Dragons or Dinosaurs: Creation or Evolution (2010)
Mythological representations of dragons appear in cultures worldwide, often resembling dinosaur species identified through their fossilized remains. Could this mean dragon legends are rooted in reality? This documentary seeks to find out. Interviews with researchers indicate that the existence of dinosaurs might actually help support the biblical story of creation and explain other mysteries of our cosmic origins.

Cast: Not Available
Director: Andre Van Heerden
Genre: Documentary
Format: DVD and streaming
Not rated. This movie has not been rated by the MPAA.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Dragons-or-Dinosaurs-Creation-or-Evolution/70132869?
strkid=576714844_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strackid=58b271d11b1e371a_0_srl&trkid=222336

Here’s a book on it:

Are dragon stories the result of overactive imaginations or reality?
Most people believe that dragons are the stuff of fantasy. But, dragon legends can be found around the world—amazingly similar, compelling, and difficult to simply dismiss as baseless tales or mere lore. This fascinating new book traces the evidence for these creatures throughout Europe, China, the USA, South America, Greece, the United Kingdom, Babylon, and elsewhere. Whether battling saints or terrorizing Aztec Indians and medieval maidens, these creatures provide a fascinating link to man’s true history, and a shadowy mystery—lingering just beyond the edges of our understanding. This high-quality, full-color book includes creative doors, panels, and booklets throughout. Appeals to nearly all ages.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/product/Dragons-Legends-Lore-of-Dinosaurs,6818,184.aspx

Why speculate or argue with facts?

You can see for yourself that HUMANS drew what they saw around them. They coexisted with dinosaurs.

[colorado tanker]

[bunkerhill7]

1. Deseret News reported two prospectors finding the carcass of a pterodactyl in the desert east of ?? Mojave?? late 1890`s-early 1900`s(?), photo included.

2. Two Native American mother and daughter whom I know reported a pterodactyl type giant bird in east Texas in late 1970`s from which they fled screaming; described it to a T.

3. Iroquois living along the Mohawk River in NY State described to the Dutch in 1640`s in 2 separate instances of a giant bird soaring down and snatching up their people and flying away.

4. Mohawk ``Talkers`` on the St. Regis Reservation Canadian side have legends of giant birds and giant monsters crushing their villages which they were unable to stop with their spears.

5. Flattened Gold nugget in museum here has figure of a mammoth or mastodon scratched into it: nugget was found in 1814 in the eastern Adirondack Mountains in a cave.

[sources by request]

[Raycpa]

but we know that oral traditions in many primitive cultures even today play an important part in passing down actual events from their heritage.

Unless of course they were subsequently written in the bible. Then nothing is considered true or partially true by modern academia standards.

[Raycpa]

phenomena is 16 April 1178 B.C

And the day before has become tax day. Talk about bad omens.

[Claud]

Because it’s not common sense at all. It’s a rather shoddy inference you’re trumpeting as a mathematical proof.

You seem to have a lot tied up in this idea of men and dinosaurs coexisting. Why I have no idea.

I’ll take a look at this book you’re waving around, because I have an open mind. I am not expecting to be impressed.

[Claud]

Please post your sources, I’d like to look these up. Monsters, Mohawks....it’s hitting all of my interests.

If they are cool, and I can find them, I will post the original accounts here.

[arrogantsob]

We do know that the Trojan War was a real event. Hittite records have revealed quite a bit of information about the area at that time. Troy was one of their allies/vassels.

Those records refer to a raid/raids along the coast as Homer describes Achilles making. And they contain correspondence to and about the King of the Achaeans possibly Agamemnon.

Homer, the Bible and Shakespeare have made up most of the important education of Western man. I would be reluctant to argue with any of these sources about anything.

[arrogantsob]

Apparently you don't believe any of the paleontologist time lines regarding the past. There is no physical evidence of the coexistence of these two species you would have to explain why there are no dinosaur-gnawed human bones laying about. Since these creatures were living tens of millions of years before the first mammals much less men and thrived under totally different climates it is hard to believe in any coexistence even on a Lost Continent. I believe the dinosaurs were used by God to prepare the earth for man. Conversion of a rocky, volcanic planet to a fertile land suitable for mankind took hundreds of millions of years. The massive vegetation broke up the rocks and the dinosaurs ate it provoking more break up.