Saul And The Charismatics...

http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/saul-and-the-charismatics/ ^ | 02-14-12 | Bill Randles

[johngrace]

Also there should be no blame game. Sad but true people do this. Just sad.

[johngrace]

I was only showing that part because that area of scripture. I never implied that was an absolute. My mother prayed for others without them knowing it with Godly results.

No offense John MacArthur does not believe in any biblical tongues for today. Which is absolutely wrong in my eyes. I read his book Charismatic chaos. He believes no matter what all from the enemy. He brings up good points then goes from cautious to paranoid.

Also some of us claim we go to bible only then have to read John Macarthur on what it reads. Very strange from people who believe bible only. If we really believe the bible only what in the world would you go to John macarthur for anyway. . We can't read it on our own if you really believe it. Please.

Just goes to show what a farce of a saying that is to some. In all reality if the bible is all there is know why go to others who can have different opinion. What a farce.

[presently no screen name]

LOVE YOUR TESTIMONY.

How nice of you to say that! I kept it very brief, lots missing. I will send you the somewhat better version some time. You never know when/where God's Work will cause angst and/or hurt to anyone. Never thought that was possible but obviously, it is.

[smvoice]

"For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;.." 1 Tim. 2:5.

Well, here's my Scripture to back up what I'm about to say. A "divine healer" makes himself a mediator between the sick and God. A "prophesier" makes himself/herself a mediator between the congregation and God. A "speaker in tongues/deciferer of the tongues message" make themselves mediators between God and the congregation.

That's all I should need to say.

[CynicalBear]

I’m not sure that one works smvoice. Jesus also said we could do things in His name. That gives us power of attorney if you will. Jesus is indeed the mediator between God the Father and man but when we do things in Jesus name we have His power. A sobering thought when thinking of using that power.

[smvoice]

You’re right, of course. All I was saying is that each one of us has His power. We have no need of going through another person to get to His power. As an example, a “divine healer” is one who we are going THROUGH in order to get God’s healing. Something that we can take directly to God ourselves, and according to His WILL, not the middle man’s “power” are we healed, or not. Same thing with tongues, and prophecy. THere are no middle men who have a power that others do not possess. We are just as capable of taking it directly to God than anyone else for us. To go to a healer to ask him to pray to God for our healing is to put him between us and God. To think that God would grant to him something He would not grant to us directly is to put the healer in the position of being the vessel God uses for our healing. Or any miracles, signs or wonders that someone claims they have been given the ability to perform by God.

[Quix]

Perhaps when I see evidence of

or feel

heard much at all,

I’ll have more confidence about trying to carry forth a more genuine dialogue.

[Quix]

INDEED.

My years on FR have taught me that any fool think can be asserted

in terms of “Christianity.”

Sigh.

[boatbums]

Those sign gifts HAD a purpose:

Mark 16:19-20 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The "word" being confirmed now must be what Holy Scripture says, since it is God's completed revelation to us. No new or special revelation outside of Scripture is warranted.

The Barnes' Commentary says:

"Confirming the word - Showing it to be the word of God or a revelation from heaven. By signs following - By attending miracles. By raising the dead, healing the sick, etc., as signs that God was with them, and had sent them forth to preach."

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible says:

"And they went forth,.... After this the apostles went forth, from Galilee to Jerusalem; and on the day of pentecost, they appeared publicly, and preached the Gospel in divers languages; and after the death of Stephen, and the persecution raised upon that, they went forth from Jerusalem; see Isaiah 2:3.

And preached every where; not only in Judea, and in the neighbouring countries, but all over the world, in process of time:

the Lord working with them; making their ministry useful, for the conviction and conversion of large multitudes, and for the forming and settling abundance of Gospel churches, and for the comfort and edification of the saints; all which was done, by the power and grace of Christ, without whom they could do nothing; see 1 Corinthians 3:9.

And confirming the word with signs following; the Arabic version adds "them"; or "which they did", as the Syriac and Persic versions render it; not by their own power, but, as the latter of these versions adds, "by the help of our Lord"; see Hebrews 2:4; to all which, the evangelist puts his

Amen; so let it be, or so it shall be, and so it was.

[Quix]

WELL PUT.

[Quix]

VERY IMPRESSIVE & CLEVER!

I’m sure God will appreciate y’all telling

HIM

how He needs to do it all

MUCH *MORE* correctly,

IF

HE

WANTS ya’ll to pay more attention to His Word on such matters.

/s

[Quix]

[CynicalBear]

But don’t miss the appropriate response from smvoice. What I said that we “each” get that “Power of attorney” and don’t need those who would propose to do it for us. Christ gave that authority to each believer knowing that if given to select individuals those individuals would tend to use it in inappropriate ways which has been born out by those charlatans who claim special powers.

[CynicalBear]

Should we assume then that any pastor, Preacher or Evangelist who does not follow up with miracles is not from God?

[smvoice]

That is exactly right. No new or special revelation outside of God's COMPLETED revelation of Scripture to us is warranted now.

So, that leaves the question: what are they doing with their "signs" now? Becoming "vessels" of "communication" and "healing" between God and other believers. Believers who do not know (?) they have an open line, straight to God and do not need a middle man to intercept and intercede for them. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[Quix]

NEVERTHELESS,

Paul still said to pray for the more excellent gifts of broader use to The Body of Christ in the local congregation.

. . . that all may prophecy . . .

yet there are those with a gift of prophecy . . .

And there are still others who have the Office of a Prophet.

Reading your assertions one way could indicate that Paul lied or was an idiot or simply wrong about the distinctions and giftings of different people because . . . according to one way of reading your assertions, God just lowered the Heavenly shotgun and blasted everyone equally.

Obviously HE did NOT do things that way.

And, like humans only more so . . .

GOD DOES NOTHING WITHOUT A REASON.

I happen to think HIS REASONS are quite trustworthy and reasonable whether I always understand them seemingly fully or at all and whether the bloke in the next pew thinks so, or not.

[boatbums]

What do you say to those who aren’t healed?....and if these healers are as they claim...why then aren’t they in EVERY children’s hospital in this nation instead of at a podium putting on a show?

That is a VERY valid question and one that I've NEVER heard adequately answered.

It most definitely IS a valid question because Jesus went to where sick people were and he healed every one.

Matthew 4:23-24
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

Acts 10:37-39
That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree

[Quix]

That’s an interesting question.

I’d say that . . .

Given Mark 16:16-18 . . .

That if some of those signs don’t follow a man or woman of God EVER . . . then they are either not in right standing with God or are living far below their inheritance and calling in God . . . and thereby achieving far less for The Kingdom than they might otherwise be accomplishing by His Grace and giftings.

. . . or perhaps God has them in a long dark night of the soul . . .

or . . . a desert experience . . . or some sort of mysterious period of being on a sabbatical or “on the shelf” for whatever reason.

[Quix]

What people are doing is recommending for us not to judge by the word of God, but dispense with any discernment.

.
THAT'S
UNMITIGATED NONSENSE,
to me.
HOWEVER,
Thanks for yet
PROOF
that I haven't begun
to be heard.

[Quix]

MORE unmitigated UnBiblical nonsense.