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R.C. Sproul: There Is No True Prophecy Today
Last Days Watchman ^
| Julio Severo
Posted on 07/22/2013 10:36:50 AM PDT by juliosevero
R.C. Sproul: There Is No True Prophecy Today
By Julio Severo
According to Charisma magazine, Calvinist theologian Dr. R.C. Sproul says he was “deeply immersed” in charismatic circles in the 1960s and that after receiving about 50 false prophecies, he said to himself, “You know, I’m going to live my life by what it says in the Word, because I know the Spirit has superintended that.”
So, with his bad experience with prophecy, Dr. Sproul concluded that there is no genuine gift of prophecy for today.
By coincidence, his personal bad experience aligns itself with a strong theological view in many Calvinist circles: the belief that God does not grant today supernatural gifts as healings, speaking in tongues, prophecies and other miracles. Cessationism. Apparently, all because they had bad experiences.
Have Calvinist theologians bad luck?
I see Calvinist churches ordaining gays, supporting abortion and boycotts against Israel, especially in Europe and America. Should I conclude that Calvinist churches are not genuine Christian churches?
I have often heard Bible misrepresentations by Jehovah’s Witnesses and similar groups. Should I conclude that the Bible leads to heresy?
Twenty years ago, I received a prophetic word in a prayer meeting in Brasilia. The word said that my name would be known throughout Brazil. I had never asked for it. Even after this prophetic experience, I did not begin to pray for it.
But it came to pass. Years later, I had a book published by the Brazilian branch of Bethany House Publishers. My book, “O Movimento Homossexual” (The Homosexual Movement). was written under prophetic inspiration.
Of course, I have heard misrepresentations of the gift of prophecy, in the same way I have heard misrepresentations of the Bible. My way to deal with misrepresentations is to know how to test and examine. After all, the Bible teaches us: “Do not despise prophecies, but a test everything.” (1 Thessalonians 5:20,21 ESV) It teaches to examine what is preached in the name of the Bible and what is prophesied in the name of God.
The cessationist stance has strong disagreements among Calvinists, because there are Calvinists who believe that God has never ceased His gifts.
Calvinist theologian Dr. J. Rodman Williams, in his “Renewal Theology: Systematic Theology from a Charismatic Perspective” (Zondervan), said, “God, the living God, is the God of revelation. He is ready to grant through His Spirit a spirit of revelation and wisdom for a deeper knowledge of Christ and also through revelation and prophecy to speak to His people. God has not changed in His desire to communicate directly with those who belong to Him.”
His stance open to the Holy Spirit is a stark contrast with the cessationist stance of Dr. Sproul. There are Calvinists in both camps.
I am not a Calvinist, but I am in Dr. Williams’ camp.
I find no Bible support to reject when God wants to direct or speak to us today through prophecy. I follow a “Sola Scriptura” which means “only the Bible,” but I fear that when some theologians mention “Sola Scriptura” (only Scripture) what they mean is “Sola Theologia” (only theology). Nothing else.
After years living only in Sweden, you begin to speak Swedish. After years living and believing only in God’s Word, you begin to live its reality, especially the reality of its Author. This is real “Sola Scriptura.” But after years living and believing only in theology, you begin to think and speak it. This is “Sola Theologia,” often misunderstood as “Sola Scriptura.”
Outside the arid fields of certain theological misinterpretations of God’s action and guidance, opportunities are vast for people open to Him and His living Word.
Years ago, I met George Otis. His father had met Ronald Reagan in his ranch in 1970. In the presence of singer Pat Boone, a charismatic Christian, he delivered a prophetic word to Reagan: “God will raise you up as president of the United States.” If Reagan had had bad luck, later he could also tell about his bad experiences with prophecy.
Yet, false prophecy never nullifies true prophecy. False Bible teaching never nullifies true Bible teaching. Bible misrepresentation or false prophecy is no excuse to annul God’s Word and prophetic guiding.
There is no president, in Brazil or other nation, that I admire most than Reagan. As a teen in the 1980s, I defended Reagan while my peers were taught by media to hate him. Poor Reagan was portrayed as the cause for all problems in the world. Yet, he was my hero. I had always felt something from God about him, and when I met Otis, I had a confirmation about my inklings.
In the words of Paul Kengor, Reagan was a “crusader” against communism. How could not I admire such brave man when I also fight the Marxist heresy in Brazil?
But I doubt that I would be able to nurture this admiration among Brazilian Calvinist apologists today.
In the Brazilian Protestant churches, the defense of socialist ideology has been spearheaded by Calvinist apologists. By contrast, the conservative resistance has been spearheaded by neo-charismatics, who are fearlessly fighting the abortion and sodomy agenda.
One of the leading Calvinist leaders in Brazil is Ariovaldo Ramos, who is a former director of World Vision in Brazil. He has publicly praised the late Venezuelan Marxist dictator Hugo Chávez, whom he said he met sometimes. Ramos has led efforts to criticize neo-charismatic leaders, including Pentecostal minister Marco Feliciano, who has been viciously attacked by the mainstream media in Brazil for his vocal stances against abortion and sodomy. Ramos is considered by the Brazilian evangelical Left as a “prophet” of the Theology of Integral Mission, the Protestant version of the Marxist Liberation Theology.
There are not many neo-charismatic theologians in Brazil. In fact, I do not know anyone. But there are many conservatives among them. On the other hand, there are many theologians in the Calvinist churches in Brazil, but not many conservative leaders. Should we conclude that Calvinist theology brings bad luck to churches?
Calvinist apologists in Brazil have spearheaded the fight to promote liberalism and socialism and, at the same time, the fight against neo-charismatics. Cessationism and Theology of Integral Mission are their passion, and the neo-charismatic growth is their hate. So should we conclude that Calvinism is false Christianity by their bad example in Brazil?
The largest Presbyterian denomination in America is ordaining homosexuals and committing other abominations. Should we conclude that Calvinism leads to apostasy?
You do not need prophetic guiding to understand that Marxism is a heresy. In Brazil, it is the most powerful heresy affecting the churches. Orestes Brownson (1803–1876), who was raised a Calvinist and converted himself to Catholicism, was probably the first Christian to warn America about the perils of the Marxist heresy.
If church leaders do not want to hear what God has to say in His own terms and conditions, they will see their flocks leaving, as Brownson did.
Regardless the bad experiences of Sproul and other Calvinists, God speaks today. If they gave more attention to God through His gifts, they would be more able to resist to the socialist onslaught against the church and society.
Recommended Reading:
TOPICS: Apologetics; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: cessationism; pimpmyblog; prophecy; rcsproul; ronaldreagan; sproul
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To: juliosevero
Revelation 22:17 is clear that Calvin was wrong.
God doesn’t pick and choose who is saved. Jesus even tried to convert the hard hearted Pharisees. Why would he even waste his time?
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of The Lord shall be saved”. Romans 10:13
To: juliosevero
“No human, natural or preternatural agency can destroy the Church or Christian civilisation;
when evil becomes unbearable to the individual who trusts God, or to society, God will work a miracle if necessary to overcome it.”
--Fr Gerald Culleton,
The Prophets and Our Times (1941)
-------------
Jesus, someone mentioned some time ago to me that you will
give no more signs, You said it to the Pharisees; he said this when I
said that this guidance (message) is from You.
Vassula, when I said this to the Pharisees I meant My miracles of
the time I was in flesh and among them; condemning Me now, for it is
to condemn My Heavenly Works, shows how arid and closed their
hearts have become; My signs will never end; My Presence will be felt
in the world and I will continue to show Myself in signs;
believe, believe O men of little faith, do not distort My Word, for
what have you to say about Fatima; are you dreading to believe that I
am the One who gave you this sign? O men of little faith, what would
you not declare rather than accept that Heaven’s signs are from Me!
love my My Works, accept My Works; believe, believe in Me, I, who am
Infinite Wealth and Mercy; My signs are so that all men see that Love
has not forgotten you; Love has not withdrawn and glories in His
Glory; Love is among you, never leaving you;
~Jesus, May 28, 1987 True Life in God
-------------
The Warning and the Miracle
3
posted on
07/22/2013 10:47:55 AM PDT
by
GBA
(Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
To: kingpins10
Just to be clear, that name is YHWH. (yod he waw he)
It is my understanding that it is pronounced “Yahuah”
Comment #5 Removed by Moderator
To: juliosevero; SeekAndFind; Gamecock
Thanks for reposting this in the Religion Forum. Will you be participating in this thread?
To: Alex Murphy
I posted this in the other thread:
There are four ways to tell a true from false prophet:
If the “prophet” or “prophetess” (Note the quotes):
1. …has prophesies that aren’t 100 percent accurate 100 percent of the time (or are manipulated to come “true”) = False.
2. …points to any “Jesus” other than the biblical one = False.
3. …uses supernatural or occultist techniques used in his or her prophecy = False.
4. …has a rebellious, unrepentant spirit = False.
All FOUR of these tests should be applied, as many false prophets can pass two or three of them. If he or she fails at any one of these, = FALSE.
What if somebody prophesies something and it comes true?
Should you listen to them? Check out what Deuteronomy says in Chapter 13 verse 1:
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.”
So the Bible is saying that just because someone prophesies the future—it doesn’t mean they are a true prophet. Further, it says God will allow certain prophets to arise who are false who will perform signs and wonders, to test you to find out if you love Him. Then you are to test these prophets by their DOCTRINE! If they are preaching a different Christ or it doesn’t matter— you are not to listen to them.
To: juliosevero
The grave error here is that the entire premise of the article is built around the legitimacy (or illegitimacy) of “Calvinism”. Further, Sproul did not say what the author puts in his mouth (cessationism). But, it makes for good controversy...just no light.
To: juliosevero
This article wanders all over the farm, but interesting. Regarding Reagan, my earliest memories from 1959 was my father watching Reagan on TV and lamenting: “Why can’t someone like him be President?” Remember at that point Reagan had not ventured into politics. My Dad was not Pat Boone and he wasn’t claiming to speak prophecy, but he beat Boone to the punch by 10 years!
To: Alex Murphy
I am here, but I confess that I do not understand much how this works.
To: Dutchboy88; SeekAndFind; juliosevero
The grave error here is that the entire premise of the article is built around the legitimacy of
true prophecy being demonstratably given in the post-apostolic era.
SeekAndFind made IMO an excellent post on the first version of this thread (and again here) regarding the Biblical test of true prophecy. In short, any alleged post-apostolic prophet needs a verifiable 1.000 batting average in regards to predictions AND Christology, or he's a false prophet. Can anyone cough up such an individual to demonstrate why Sproul's experience is wrong?
To: juliosevero
I am here, but I confess that I do not understand much how this works. You've been a member of Free Republic for almost four and a half years. What don't you get?
To: Alex Murphy
RE: In short, any alleged post-apostolic prophet needs a verifiable 1.000 batting average in regards to predictions AND Christology, or he’s a false prophet.
OK, just for argument’s sake, what do we make of the NON-FULFILLMENT of Jonah’s prophecy to the Ninevites?
This is what he said : “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned.” (Jonah 3:4).
That’s it. NO CONDITIONS, NO IFs or BUTs. Not even an exhortation to repent.
To: juliosevero
We have been discussing this very topic in our Sunday School class on theology. We delved into Dr. Wayne Grudem’s conjecture that N.T. prophecy is different from O.T. prophecy. It exists, but it must be tested. This is because, in his view, it can be flawed.
He contends that most evangelical congregants are not strict cessationists with regards to miraculous gifts; e.g., tongues, prophecy, and healing. Instead he categorizes them as “Open but cautious”.
To: SeekAndFind
OK, just for argument’s sake, what do we make of the NON-FULFILLMENT of Jonah’s prophecy to the Ninevites? This is what he said : “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned.” (Jonah 3:4). That’s it. NO CONDITIONS, NO IFs or BUTs. Not even an exhortation to repent. Personally, I'd say that the sweeping nation-wide changes in Ninevah, from the greatest to the least (Jonah 3:5-10) constitute a definitive moral overturning.
To: juliosevero
And yet there is so much false prophecy...
16
posted on
07/22/2013 11:35:14 AM PDT
by
MortMan
(Disarming the sheep only emboldens the wolves.)
To: Alex Murphy
Yes, but what kind of prophet did that make Jonah?
To: SeekAndFind
An accurate one, IMO. Are you interpreting “overthrown” to mean a solely political / physical change, and not an ethical one?
To: Alex Murphy
RE: An accurate one,
I’d say an inaccurate one.
He only told them part of the whole prophecy.
He gave them the doom part but not the salvation part.
To: All
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