Posted on 08/31/2013 3:38:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
Good luck at getting that horse to drink!
The flesh/natural mind will not inherit the kingdom of God, as it cannot be subject to the law of God, no matter how much you dress it up. Beware of decorating trees God has not planted.
Interesting. Perhaps for later viewing.
It is the supreme authority, to which all is to be subject, a position Rome arrogates to herself.
Send away/ Thank God for FR helping.
God opens hearts and only He knows what an individual lurker may need.
When I raised the passage about Aaron and the golden calf, the point was that he was trying to mix worshiping God with worshiping idols and that obviously made God very angry. It was nearly a fatal mistake.
But mixing worshiping God with worshiping idols is a different situation than a Christian continuing a custom which has no element of idol worshiping.
Every Easter for instance, I make tons of cascarones (confetti filled eggs) for the kids to find and smash over each other’s heads. It’s a South Texas tradition and the kids have a wonderful time. And, of course, we have a piñata to go with it. And I sometimes stuff the piñata with candies that contain Bible verses.
The fact that the holiday itself has a pagan origin and the name is a pagan “godess” has no place whatsoever in my heart or the hearts of the kids that enjoy the traditional celebration.
But if it did prick my conscience, then I would have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Nor would I invite anyone to such a celebration whose conscience would be pricked by our doing it. That is the heart of this passage from Romans 14:
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. – Romans 14:1-13
As a counter example and since you raised “altars” as an issue earlier, dear Heart-Rest, it troubles me that so many Christian religions have altars that they use in their service, especially of the bread and wine. I do not know if it troubles anyone else. Nor do I question the sincerity of the ministers or priests or congregations who attend such services.
But in my spirit, there is only one altar on earth where blood sacrifice can be presented:
Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: - Deut 12:11
And the altars that [were] on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake [them] down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron. – II Kings 23:12
And of course, God allowed those earthy types to be destroyed almost two thousand years ago, not to be re-established until the end of Gentile's era by my understanding of the prophecy. (Romans, Daniel, Revelation)
We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. – Hebrews 13:9-16
On the other hand, I’m not going to give another Christian a hard time because it comforts him to have an altar in his church. (Romans 14)
Give God the glory, not man, never man.
“So you are trying to claim that the writer, after an event (Duh! when else!!), would FAIL to provide the correct information about what took place?”
Nope. No incorrect information was provided. Simon was called Peter - just not at the time when the events unfolded. Hence, John 1:42. Ever read it?
Sure. Why not?
“It ain’t a ‘gift’ if you have to do SOMETHING to get it.”
Really? So you never took Jesus as your Lord and Savior? That would sure like having “to do SOMETHING”.
“Yes; I do: faulty RCC teachings; of course.”
Nope. Just Protestant illogic.
It doesn’t surprise me that a Protestant anti-Catholic would liken the glorious resurrection with cage fighting.
“Do you ever read and study scripture?”
Probably more than you ever will.
Now, how about answering the question I asked: “Does God save men against their will?”
“But Catholics say no, that man can loose that somehow so it must not be eternal for “whosoever believes in Him”.”
No. First, what you’re saying doesn’t even making sense. You’re saying - mistakenly - that Catholics don’t believe in eternal life because they don’t believe in sola fide (a strictly Protestant doctrine dating only to the 16th century). Your claim doesn’t even make sense because you are claiming Catholics don’t believe in eternal life because they believe eternal life can be lost. The belief in possibly losing eternal life in no way precludes the existence of eternal life or even its possession. In fact, the very fact that Catholics believe eternal life can be lost means they believe in eternal life. You can’t lose what you don’t have so if you can lose it you must have possessed it previously.
“Like I said, Catholics believe it’s not eternal but temporary depending on what man does.”
No. Catholics believe eternal life is eternal. What would be temporary would be their possession of it if they refused the love and mercy of God.
I didn’t say idol worship. I said “other gods”. If you look at the passage again.
Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God
>> Every Easter for instance,<<
It’s not difficult to research the origins of Easter. It’s pretty easy to find the reason it’s always observed on the Sunday after the full moon of the spring equinox. Then to see what God said about it.
Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Learn the origins of the Babylonian religion and it’s founders Nimrod, Semiramis and her son Tammuz. Then read in Ezekiel where they were celebrating Easter.
Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. 15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. 16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Easter has no Biblical foundation, only pagan beginnings way back in Babylon.
Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
>>The fact that the holiday itself has a pagan origin and the name is a pagan “godess” has no place whatsoever in my heart or the hearts of the kids that enjoy the traditional celebration.<<
I simply try to point out what God said about the customs and practices. I will leave the personal decisions between those who seak and the Holy Spirit.
I answered that. Didn’t you read my post?
>>No. Catholics believe eternal life is eternal. What would be temporary would be their possession of it if they refused the love and mercy of God.<<
How interesting. Once again doubling down in denial of what scripture says and denying that once one believes on Christ it’s eternal.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)
See that in red? It says has passed>/font>. Not will pass if, or might pass contingent upon. It says has passed/. Done deal for eternity. Now you still say it dependent on one thing or another. Stop denying what scripture says.
Here’s another.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. There it is again! We are sanctified. Not will be if, or might be contingent upon. It says we are. Then it follows with for ever.
Two brief (not exahustive) points: (as I’m typing on a tiny iPhone)
About John 5.24: here the phrase “hears My word” appears as just that but elsewhere in Scripture we read that phrase coupled with “and obeys” or something similar. Hence it’s well understood that in this passage the condition “and obeys” applies as well. It’s simply eisegesis for anyone to insist “and obey isn’t in John 5:24 so it doesn’t apply there”. It must be there, implied, or else Scripture contradicts Scripture. (Cf Luke 11:28 as an example)
IOW, it’s simply understood that if/when we read “hears My word” it also means obeying that Word or else it becomes a mere statement “I believe in God”; even the demons believe (and tremble) though.
WRT Heb 10, it’s another point of proper contextual (and in this instance translational) reading. In most versions, Heb 10:14 reads “...For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy”
Note the phrase “...being made holy”. This is a better way to understand “sanctified” in the passage of Heb. 10:10-14.
So, holiness is a condition to perfection.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Dragging out that misstatement really needs to stop. Let’s look at what was really said.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Notice it says that the devils also believe there is one God. It does NOT say they believe IN God, or ON God. On the other hand one is saved by belief ON the Lord Jesus Christ.
The jailor was told “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. That belief and trust carries a promise of not only salvation but of a changed life that includes acting on that faith just as Abraham did. It was Abrahams faith that saved but his actions that proved his faith.
Demons/devils believe there IS one God but they don’t believe IN or ON that one God. Huge difference.
>>So, holiness is a condition to perfection.<<
It’s Christ’s holiness we are covered with not any holiness of our own.
Galatians 2:20: Paul speaks of himself and all true Christians: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me."
It’s not “our” faith but Christ’s faith in us that we live.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:30-31)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (Philippians 3:9)
It’s not our faith or righteousness but Christ’s faith and righteousness working through us that is ours when we believe on Him. How could we be more prefect than the perfection of Christ in us? Through the gift of grace that is how the Father sees us.
Oh that more Catholics would see the truth of God’s grace.
Also, I do appreciate your posting those passages of Scripture and sounding the alarm.
But truly, for me the designation of "Easter" is no more than a calendar appointment bookmarked by the name of a pagan 'god.' But if I said "I'll see you Saturday, January the 4th, 2014" that would contain references to two pagan 'gods.'
In neither case am I worshiping idols nor following after them. And I wonder how many words we use every day originated from some reference to a pagan 'god' or practice? It might be fun to explore the etymology website to get some idea.
Any hoot, the term "Easter" means no more or less to me than the names of the days of the weeks or months both of which are rooted in pagan life.
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