Posted on 02/24/2014 7:28:13 PM PST by restornu
Miraculous claims surrounding the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are an evidence of the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith. Critics intent on discrediting the Restoration point to DNA studies on indigenous American peoples in an attempt to expose Joseph, the Book of Mormon, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as frauds. Claiming that scientific evidence excludes any possibility that Middle Eastern or ancient Jewish travelers came to the Americas in antiquity, such critics attempt to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of Latter-day Saints and those of other faiths concerning the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as an ancient religious text.
Are these studies credible? Do the data actually show what the critics claim? Do they discredit the Book of Mormon, or is there biological and other scientific evidence that supports the claims that it is indeed an ancient record of a people that once inhabited the Americas?
The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) interviews scholars and scientists to answer these important questions and reveals the faith-affirming truth that not only are the critics' conclusions and methods flawed, but that there is credible scientific evidence in favor of the Book of Mormon as an ancient religious text.
The Cross?
For lds it would be the Garden.
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Both the garden and the cross. I know so many want to skip some things but both were necessary in the Garden was Jesus was praying to His Father in heaven not praying to himself.
Matt 26
36 ¶Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.
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39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
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42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done
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He Is Risen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAuaSpJ7zGs#t=191
They were not silent they still pervert the word after Jesus died and resurrected.
As when after the resurrection of Jesus he spoke to Paul from beyond
Gal 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
I know many like to say it refers to the LDS but just because some say so, don’t make it so!
For Rev 14 also prophecies of another Angel who would have the everlasting gospel.
Rev 14:6 (The gospel will be restored in the last days by angelic ministry—The Son of Man will harvest the earth.)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
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12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
It is a little hard to defend my faith when one gets a message I was told
What is there to be afraid of truth will, will out it might be very slow in arriving but it will show up before the Great day is over!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3126644/posts?page=217#217
You’re doing it wrong./s
As you said, the only “discernment” that is valid is that which comes from SLC or approved LDS sources. The rest is just a failure to properly “seek understanding”, from an LDS only perspective of course.
A More Perfect Union Part 1 of 8 mp4
1-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmIfTEkb5MY
2-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-wfHy9r3Q
3-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU9I3vcjq0w
4-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJvAZUtiI1M
5-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hov7Fzi0XQ4
6-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6ErfSqVDAc
7-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bu1CAPvlpg
8-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATJZN-5RyU
It was Rex Lee, Mike Lee’s father who fundraised for this movie on “A More Perfect Union”.
Both the garden and the cross. I know so many want to skip some things but both were necessary
____________________________________________No...
I know that’s a false belief of the Mormons but the Garden of Gethsemane has nothing to do with salvation..
Only the Cross is important..
The LORD Jesus Christ didn’t say “If I go and pray in the garden”
He said “If I be lifted up I will draw all men and women to me” John 12:32 meaning lifted up ON THE CROSS...
He was telling His disciples how He was going to die...
His praying in the Garden of Gethsemane was not part of that ...He often prayed...and alone..
coming OUT OF the Garden of Gethsemane when He just happened to say that to Peter..
The significance of the Garden of Gethsemane is that it is on the Mount of Olives...
Olives were pressed there...
The LORD Jesus Christ was facing a pressing a squeezing...a challenge..
He was about to lay down His life for us...
His torment was due to the fact that He was facing being cut off from God...
He had always been with God the Father ...He had never been separated from the rest of the Trinity..
He was about to volunteer and go where no Person of the Trinity had ever gone before...to Hell..
It was His choice..He was about to face the Cross and all its horrors but even worse he was about to face separation from God..and death and Hell..
Although He had already told His disciples He would rise again..He still had to face the horror of being away from God for those few days..
While Jesus was on the Cross and before He died God left Him..
He cried out with a voice loud enough to be heard by those on the ground around Him...He must have screamed at the top of His voice
“MY GOD !!! MY GOD !!! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME ?”
Matthew 27:44, Mark 15:34 This cry was so important that David prophesied in Psalm 22:1 that Jesus would do this...
God cannot look at sin and all the sins of the world for all time had been placed on Jesus...He who had not ever sinned Himself was now so drenched in sin His own Father could not look at Him or be anywhere near Him..
A child gets anxious if he doesn’t se his mother for a few moments but he is not neglected and cut off from her she may just be in the next room...
but Jesus knew God wasn’t just in the next room He wasn’t going to be back until Jesus had died alone and gone through Hell alone and risen again..
Now of us humans can understand the anguish that Jesus felt because we have never experienced living in Heaven forever with God and then being cut off from Him..
Humans who wind up in Hell feel some of that forever and that’s an excellent reason to repent and be born again and go to Heaven so that you don’t end up in hell without God..
But the LORD Jesus Christ agreed to lay down His life and shed His blood on the Cross and die there in order to save us from suffering the penalty of our sins..
He went to hell so that we don’t have to...
He suffered separation from God on the Cross so we don’t have to..
The Cross is where it all happened..
That’s why Christians put a cross on their churches and inside..
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Galatians 6:14
And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Philippians 2:8
in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which He put to death their hostility. Ephesians 2:16
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18
Jesus he spoke to Paul from beyond
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from beyond where ???
BTW, the “discernment” of Mitt Romney that he was foreordained to “save” the nation has resulted in the state the nation finds itself in now....he “discerned” that his primary opponents were weak, yet he was the weakest of them all!
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The man should have never gone into politics no matter how some try to paint him, he is a good man and did a lot of good in the world but it seems politics was not for him, but many here will choose to dump on that too, that is alright the Lord’s know why we say the things we say, and treat others the way we do... so I talking to you or you talking to me on some subjects will always be moot.
When all the nation peoples hearts are turn to God that the Lord will be able to help us!
If we continue to fight each other well will continue to be under condemnation.
To the LDS Harry Reid is the Judas!
They were not silent they still pervert the word after Jesus died and resurrected.
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Well yes 1800 years after Jesus died just another falsie religion-for-profit called Mormonism was invented and now you Mormons send more than 50,000 foolish brainwashed teenagers to the doors of Christians to pervert the word of God and tell us that the Bible is not the Truth..
and that the Cross is not important...
However the Cross is important to our salvation for without it we would be still lost in sin..
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; He has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. Colossians 2:14
When all the nation peoples hearts are turn to God that the Lord will be able to help us!
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Its a good thing God takes pity on us and helps us now because that’s never going to happen...
all of the people in the nations are not gong to turn to God..
many of them with some from every nation...whether black, white, male female..
But there will be many who end up in Hell...
and Hell is forever...theres no getting out of there...
Meanwhile God helps us in the here and now...
if we want Him too..and ask Him to..
I am not going to argue over your opinion we been there before, one does not sweat great drop of blood when they pray...
It is in the garden the Atonement was made!
Luke 22
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
The man should have never gone into politics
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Why don’t you tell Willard that ???
and also if you really believe that why did you get so upset at those of us who agree with you and didn’t vote for him ???
It is in the garden the Atonement was made!
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What do you as a Mormon mean by “atonement”
Salvation was not paid for in the Garden of Gethsemane...
The LORD Jesus Christ shed His life giving blood on the Cross and died there to save us..
If He had walked away from the Garden after He prayed and had never gone to the Cross we would not have salvation..
His time in the Garden did nothing for us...
Now you tell us. He's the one with two mouths as he (paints) disguises himself to fit any point of view from every side of the isle.
one does not sweat great drop of blood when they pray...
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No they don’t..
However when Jesus sweated in the Garden of Gethsemane as He prayed His sweat was LIKE drops of blood..
And being in anguish, He prayed more earnestly, and His sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. Luke 22:44
Only Luke who was a physician even mentions this ..nobody else who was there even John who is so precise thought His sweat looked unusual enough to record the sight...
and as Luke was not one of the close disciples of Jesus and wasn’t at the Last Supper, he also wasn’t in the Garden with Jesus ...Luke never actual SAW what the sweat of Jesus looked like...
Luke wrote his 2 books, Luke and The Acts of the Apostles from what he had been told..
If Luke had been told that Jesus sweated blood Luke would have recorded that Jesus sweated blood...
and all four of the Gospels would have had some mention of the blood running from the pores of Jesus..
You don’t think big mouth Peter would have exclaimed “Jesus !!! Youre bleeding ?”
No, Jesus sweated and His sweat was like drops of blood but it wasn’t actually blood...
It is in the garden the Atonement was made!
Luke 22
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No Luke 22:42-44 are not about any “atonement” nor are those verses about salvation..
The work of salvation doesn’t start until the next chapter Luke 23 when Jesus shed His blood and died on the Cross..
THAT is the blood that saves us...
The blood He shed on the Cross covers EVERY sin...
even the sin of being a Mormon for a time..
Resty the day has warmed up here so I’m going to go and dig some more of my garden...
Don’t worry little grasshopper...youre not deserted...
I’LL BE BACK
Meanwhile read the Bible...
I noticed...
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