John 6 focusing on the words spoken by Jesus {from the King James Version}

Biblegateway ^ | 85 AD | John

[Cronos]

hat Jesus said in KJV from John 6:5. Those in brackets are inferences from the text

5. Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?

10. Make the men sit down

(11. Thanks to God. Distribute the bread and fishes)

12. Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

20. It is I; be not afraid.

———————————

26. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

29. This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent

32. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

35. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

43. Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

53. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

61. Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not.

65. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

=====

This is the work of God - that you believe Him who He has sent.

God, My Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is HE which cometh down from heaven and giveth life unto the world.

I am the bread of life

Ye also have seen me and believe not

I cam down from heaven to do the will of Him that sent me.

I am that bread of life.

This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die.

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever;

and the bread that I will give is my flesh

Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.\

For my flesh is meat indeed

He that eateth my flesh dwelleth in me

he that eateth me, even he shall live by me

[Elsie]

There IS a way to know, and it's found in the bible portion of your quad:

JS has suggested another way. However, he did not use it during the First Vision.

---

Doctrine and Covenants       Section 129

 

Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, 9 February 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished (see History of the Church, 5:267).

1–3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4–9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.

1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones;
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear;
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

       Joseph Smith

[Elsie]

Do you believe Jesus's words or not?

Call no man father

[Elsie]

What bogus mumbo jumbo you believe!

[Elsie]

Perhaps you ought to actually read the Bible rather than excerpts?

Perhaps you ought to actually UNDERSTAND the Bible rather than accepting what Rome has told you it means?

[Colofornian]

Always good to hear from you! (The Flying Inman were used of God to make a difference...and still are...just more diffused now)

[Cronos]

Interesting, Elsie - you think that Jesus' words are mumbo-jumbo

Let’s read John 6 - just the words of Jesus recorded

he said to Philip, “Where can we buy enough food for them to eat?”
Philip answered him, “Two hundred days’ wages[e] worth of food would not be enough for each of them to have a little [bit].”
Jesus said, “Have the people recline.”
He gave thanks, and distributed them to those who were reclining, and also as much of the fish as they wanted.

they saw Jesus walking on the sea[k] and coming near the boat, and they began to be afraid. 20 But he said to them, “It is I.[l] Do not be afraid.”

“Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.”

“This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”

, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. 36 But I told you that although you have seen [me], you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”

“Stop murmuring[r] among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets:

‘They shall all be taught by God.’

Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

“Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?[u] 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh[v] is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
“For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

“Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?” 71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.

---

Jesus’ deeds and words are clear

1. God will feed the multitudes
2. I am God - I can walk on water
3. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you
4. This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent
5. my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
6. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger,
7. I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
8. unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

===== +++ =======

He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood

[Cronos]

Long screed? Really?

The illogical stream of human-invented fiction is yours, dear imardmd1

you reject Jesus’ very words about the Eucharist.

you believe in the 19th century invention of the pre-tribulation rapture.

[Cronos]

Furthermore imadrdmd1 - you believe in the human-invented fiction that Jesus served grape juice instead of wine.

the forced interpretation is you thinking this was grape Juice.

Jesus drank wine.

Jesus created wine from water (not grape juice).

Unfermented grape juice didn’t exist until 1869 when Thomas Welch invented a method for stopping the fermentation that otherwise begin the moment the grapes are crushed. Grape skins are covered in yeasts that instantly begin converting sugars to alcohol, so any grape juice stored for more than a day or two would have begun to become increasingly alcoholic.

The word used Yayin clearly means an alcoholic drink. Gen 9:21 tells us that Noah drank yayin and passed out drunk and naked.

Ps 104:15 yayin makes the heart of people merry.

Proverbs 20:1 yayin is a mocker, and the wiseman should not be deceived by it.

Why do you, imardmd1 persist in your grammatically, syntactically, and illogical stream of human-invented fiction?

[Cronos]

Imardmd1, your hypotheses about this situation are unneeded, unnecessary, irrational, unspiritual, and ungodlike. From another aspect, they are exactly conformable to a Satanic viewpoint, which your casual flippant narrative displays.

Why do you deny Christ continuously?

Unfermented grape juice didn’t exist until 1869 when Thomas Welch invented a method for stopping the fermentation that otherwise begin the moment the grapes are crushed. Grape skins are covered in yeasts that instantly begin converting sugars to alcohol, so any grape juice stored for more than a day or two would have begun to become increasingly alcoholic.

Wine has its natural 5–6% average alcohol content because that’s about the point at which the alcohol concentration naturally kills the yeasts, stopping the fermentation. If we read the passage in its context, we know that this was a celebration of a wedding, which seems to be something universally celebrated (as God Himself commanded) with wine and merriment. The people at the wedding would have come expecting that, so it seems highly unlikely that they would have complimented the quality of what Jesus made, had it been mere juice

Jesus made wine - alcoholic wine - out of water

[MHGinTN]

It has been longer than that since I’ve had good Jewish liverwurst.

[Utah Binger]

"This is the Place" where we have FReeper picnics and there aren't any masks to be found since Utah finally did something right! Also the place where my religion is visable every day...

[MHGinTN]

Oh my! Another keeper for my desktop files. Beautifully posited, Lady.

[Mark17]

It has been longer than that since I’ve had good Jewish liverwurst.

How about some good, old fashioned balut or some dinuguan? 😁

[MHGinTN]

Let's see if I got that:

It has been explained MANY times but Catholics ignore it and just focus on ONE verse, taken out of context because James also says this......

James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.

That refers to this verse in Genesis......

Genesis 15:1-6 And he (Abraham) believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

God's call on Abraham was in chapter 12. There is not much recorded interaction between God and Abraham until this passage in chapter 15.

Genesis 15:6 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” But Abram said, “O Lord God, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” And behold, the word of the Lord came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

This incident occurred BEFORE ANY action on Abram's part.

Scripture clearly says here that Abram was declared righteous simply based on the fact that he believed God.

This verse is also repeated elsewhere in Scripture so that indicates it's significant and God wants us to get the message.

There is also these passages that show that works do not save.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus never denied that mighty works were done.

Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

So Catholics are stuck here. Either they are right and we have to earn our place in heaven with our actions, IOW works, or Scripture has contradicted itself. Either the Catholic interpretation of James is wrong, or Scripture contradicts itself.

Are you going to tell us that Scripture contradicts itself?

Which is more likely? Scripture contradicting itself or a wrong interpretation because a verse is taken out of context, is being used as a stand alone *proof* without considering the passage in which it's found?

Because pulling verses out of their context is a sure recipe for

[ADSUM]

Your comment: “In that verse, both terms, water and spirit, are figurative terms referring to His Word(s) alone, nothing else. And you (who believe/say that one must wait until death to learn whether one is saved or not), cannot have been born again, or your tune would be quite different.”

Just because you say that “water and spirit are figurative” does not make it make it so.

John 3:22: Immediately after Jesus’ “born again” discourse to Nicodemus, what does He do? “… Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.”

John 4:1-2: Jesus’ disciples then begin to baptize at Jesus’ command. It appears from the text, Jesus most likely only baptized his disciples and then they baptized everyone else.

In summary, Jesus was baptized, transformed the “baptismal” waters, and then gave his famous “born again” discourse. He then baptized before commissioning the apostles to go out and baptize. To deny Jesus was teaching us about baptism in John 3:3-5 is to ignore the clear biblical context.

For you say “which act was counted as “Christian baptism”—but Scripturally invalid and no more saving than your futile Romanist paedobaptist attemp at spiritual regeneration.”

You ignore what Jesus told us “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16;16 and Jesus instructions to His Catholic Church “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 28:19

The vast majority of Christians recognize the possibility of losing one’s salvation. This is clearly taught in multiple Bible passages.

In John 5:24, Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment but has passed from death to life.” This refers to a spiritual transfer from the Old Covenant to the blessings of the New Covenant. Believers are rescued from the fallen family of Adam and reinstated in the divine family of God.

A less elegant translation of the first part of this would be, “the one hearing my word and believing him who sent me” has eternal life. In this case, the Greek present participles for “hearing” (akouōn) and “believing” (pisteuōn) indicate an ongoing action.

Therefore, if one were to stop hearing Jesus’ word and to stop believing the one who sent him, one would lose eternal life and pass back from life to death.

Salvation is an ongoing process and not a once and done claim that you believe. We need to be in the state of grace when we die for our eternal salvation.

Perhaps you are like the pharisees in that you only accept your personal opinions without understanding God’s teaching?

Thank you for answering the question on “born again” or “born anew” (Catholic Bible). I hope that the Catholic understanding is clear.

[metmom]

You missed the last word of the post, which was “error”.

A sure recipe for error.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ dinuguan

Sounds like a fried 🦎

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“ We need to be in the state of grace when we die for our eternal salvation.

Well since you’re Roman, I guess that’s what your religion teaches. Plus indulgences, repetition of prayers, holy water, pantheon of demigods and the head demigoddess, and so much more.

But for the saved believer, every sin has already been included on the cross, he is sealed to the day of redemption - the Spirit given as a down payment, held in the hand of Christ, and positionally seated in the heavenlies with Him now… and so much more.

I picked the better biblical option, the second choice.

I am saved.
I am being transformed on earth.
I will be translated to be like Him when I see Him.
I will stand at the Bema seat to give an account of my life -.where my works done after the new birth are tested by fire.
Gold and silver will remain.
“He himself will be saved.”

Sucks to be Roman. But it’s a choice.

[imardmd1]

You fail to understand the history of viniculture, beginning with ancient documents and continuing up to this day. We are still learning.

Another of your failures is to recognize that the narrative of the Cana wedding set forth by the Blessed spiritual theologian John "Boanerges" bar Zabdi, prompted by the Spirit to open his narrative of Jesus' earthly history of miracles.

The Cana vignette is significant in that it marks an event typical of the final feast of the Marriage in Heaven uniting Himself with His Bride, the Ekklesia of the First-Born, at which He also will provide the same kind of sweet blood of the cluster as He did miraculously at Nathaniel's home town, and which caused people there to exercise a saving faith in His Lordship, as the first-fruits of His march to the Cross, where He said, "I thirst" and refused the drug-laced sop.

This merry union of a godly couple, the celebration that excluded the Satanic intoxicant "yayin" described in Proverbs 23:31 lest the week-long gathering decay into a drunken brawl.

So it was that they of the wedding lacked (husterehoh) wine (oinos). They didn't "run out of it" as it has been wrongly interpreted in prarphrased versdions. As Jesus' Mother said, "They are not having wine."

But Jesus, calling forth His powers, blessed the event by providing a fluid that duplicated not "yayin" but "tirosh," the sweet, freshly pressed (in a mechanical device, not foot-tromped) delicious skin-free blood of the cluster, fulfilling the prophesy of Isaiah:

"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine^tirosh is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants'^disciple's sakes, that I may not destroy them all" (Isa. 65:8 AV).

A fluid refreshment like this was gladly received by the caterer of the feast; though at a time of year, our December, that it would have been available only from the ethanol-free concentrate, a syrup called "must," prepared at the time of harvest from filtered, boiled-down new wine against the days when the purple non-intoxicating reconstituted grape juice was desired at a holy gathering. In those days, the reconstituted product, while acceptanle, was probably not quite as tasty, as "good," as fresh juice would have been.

(The syrup thus heat-treated kills any yeast or microbes, and the sugar level thus elevated prevents any fermentation. when stored with a covering to prevent more evaporation, the product is stable, nold-free, and able to be restored to juice-consistence after years of storage, I have personally done this, and have som thirty-year-old syrup in my kitchen cupboard.)

Now consider: when at the table of Jesus' last meal with His chosen disciples, He promised in an oath, unforgotten yet:

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom" (Mt. 26:29 AV; cf. Mk 14:24-25, Lk. 22:15-29)).

Please take a note here, Cronos; let your education on the Memorial supper be greatly improved. The Scripture tells us beyond doubt that this fluid consumed is NOT called "oinos" (or "yayin" in Aramaic/Hebrew). Jesus uniformly termed it as "fruit of the vine" and "new," which makes it "tirosh" in Hebrew, a form necessary to comport with the prophetic Isaiah passage, NOT "oinos."

What can be rightly presumed here is that henceforth, any group taking this fruit of the vine should consume it only as either freshly-pressed, or reconstituted from the "must" syrup, to be truthful in kind as promised by Jesus, Risen, Ascended, and Coming Again Lord and Christ to establish His Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace. Rest assured, as at Cana that presages His Last Supper on Earth, and His Heavenly Marriage, the bread will not be moldy, and the fruit of the vine will not be man-made half-rotted grape laced with the toxin, the poisonous ethyl alcohol, in the juice.

Chew on that for a while, eh?

 Personally, it is my opinion that anyone using intoxicating red wine in communion is knowingly throwing Jesus' promise to the ground (figuratively) and treading on it. It's the same stuff that leads some false religionists into alcoholic stupor and addiction to it.

[MHGinTN]

When I use your excellent post I intend to emphasize that word.