Posted on 04/19/2006 10:32:18 AM PDT by RGVTx
Natalee Holloway - Extended Thread 1
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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 3
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Aruba: Bad Business Gone Bad
"She just kind of vanished," Arlene Schippers
This insane and unprofessional quote again begs the questions, are these people stupid or corrupt? It seems to be a question that defines Aruba now. How on earth Arlene Schippers could make such a moronic statement considering she herself has said that she has seen the complete police file?
To read the rest:
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/
And also from the article.
snip
The Star: What is happening now to keep the focus on Natalee?
Holloway: “America’s Most Wanted” is going to air two weeks from now. On June the 7th that will air. We still might get up a final ocean search. That was initially the plan for two weeks ago. The expense at this point in time has kind of delayed that, so I think it will happen probably within the next month.
And then this lawsuit, I’m sure that will bring a lot of attention, whatever the verdict is on that. If it sticks, a lot of things will happen.
Thanks to klaasend at SM for finding this.
On Friday, Beth gave an interview on Dutch TV. Here is the link to the video of that interview:
http://tinyurl.com/psy7p
There is a link right next to a little red camera on that page. If you shop on the link it will take you to the page where the video loads. It takes a little while to load.
LOL!! Happy Memorial Day RGVTx!!
Good question!!
http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2006/02/joran-van-der-sloot-honest-or-not.html
Has this been posted before? Interesting analysis!
Chris Cuomo says Joran now says he might have told the police the real story, the one he's telling you tonight then and there if the family hadn't been so aggressive when they met that first night.
J: The way they were putting pressure on us probably...uh..made us lie more...because it seemed like we were in big trouble."
CC: Even though they were being hostile -- they were searching for a girl that hasn't been found.
J: They were searching for a girl who wasn't found...but...a...and I lied to them about it but....a....ah...how they acted towards my family and ...ah...my friends is not a normal way parents would go about....if their daughter was missing.
It's not normal?? Here Joran is playing the victim. He wants people to feel sorry for him. He doesn't not have the ability to have any compassion for Natalee or her family. This again is odd. Most people who were innocent would have GREAT compassion for the family, and would defend their innocense.
Also, Joran stutters a lot...and talks odd. This raises my eyebrows repeatedly.
CC: Nobody had a sense of right and wrong at the time among you three.
J: No.
Chris Cuomo goes on to say that over eleven days, the three boys all met at Joran's house to discuss the situation.
J: Deepak and Satish came to my house about every day and we talked and we talked. We...a...tried to... and we discussed things. And we were like a...we also at that time said well maybe its time to go to the police and tell them exactly what happened.
Why is Joran's speech so chopped up? He isn't nervous. Is he thinking of what to say and has to "change his story" to hide the truth? Why is he talking nonsense?
Chris Cuomo says that neither of the two brothers admit to driving Joran home that night.
CC: Why would they lie?
J: I don't know. Well....the thing that...the only explanation I can...a..get for that is at the point if they said they would have picked me up...all...the...everything goes towards them...because...then that meant that they dropped me off at my house and ah...I went to sleep...and they had a car and they could have done anything they wanted.
Joran -- This answer makes absolutely no sense. None. The brothers had the car all night long regardless. That doesn't mean they committed murder now, does it? Or were involved -- but that is what Joran is suggesting. This sentence really raises my eyebrows. He is having hard time saying clear, sensible answers time and time again. This is nonsense. People who are honest don't talk nonsense.
CC: Do you think there is a chance one of your friend went to that beach where she was to hurt Natalee?
J: I cannot answer that question. The thing that keeps me ...that does make me think they know something more about it is they won't tell the truth about Satish picking me up.
Now...listen to the next sentence.
CC: The one thing you three agree upon is that you were the last person to be with Natalee.
J: Um..Yes.
Does that make any sense at all? It doesn't.
Time and time again.
CC: Do you think you did anything wrong that night?
J: Yes.
CC: What was your responsibility as you see it?
Joran says he shouldn't have left her at the beach.
J: I should have brought her back to her hotel, or I should have ...um...made sure I left her with someone, one of her friends, but I should have gotten her back to where she should have been.
Here Joran is honest. Look at how his speech flowed naturally, normally and without chop, hesitation and nonsense. Very interesting.
CC: Have you ever given a girl a drug?
J: (smirking) No. Never.
I don't believe this. Why is he smirking???
This was the most shocking part of the interview!!!
CC: What would you say to Natalee if you were still able to speak to her?
J: If I were to see her, if she'd be found tomorrow, I'd hate her. Yes, I'd hate her if she really ran away from home, I'd hate her.
First, he doesn't have anything he'd say to Natalee. His brain didn't even think in those terms. Why?? Instead, he thought about how he'd feel. He'd feel HATE.
This shows a callousness about Joran that is scary. This whole situation is about him and he has no sympathy for Natalee or her family. People who are honest would most likely respond something like this: "I'd be thrilled. " "I'd hug her." "I'd hug the ground I walk on. It would prove my innocence." "Thank god." "I'd ask her what happened?" "I'd say how could you do this to me? You had to see on the news I was being framed for something I didn't do!!!" "I'd be relieved" "The truth would be revealed."
Honest people would say anything but HATE HER. Joran, however, DOES hate her. I have no doubt about it. He hates her because SHE has RUINED HIS LIFE. Perhaps due to his actions?
19 pieces to this puzzle. What picture does it paint for you?
Joran is still a big suspect in my eyes. I believe he knows way more than he is telling us. I think he knows where Natalee ultimately ended up.
One whole year.
Rest in peace, Natalee.
Yes, you are right. At the same time he thinks they (Deepak and Satish) may know something more, he says that the three of them agreed that he, Joran, was the last one with Natalee.
If he didn't like the way they "acted towards his family", wouldn't he immediately tell them any facts he was aware of, if he knew he did nothing wrong? What's his logical reason for lying to Natalee's family? Of course they were upset. In his interview with Greta, he made no bones about what he'd do to someone who hurt one of his loved ones. Therefore, he has to be judged as someone who knew the anguish of Beth Twitty at that moment.
So far, they've all gotten away by telling lie after lie. Really, it's been that easy.
Other than using the tactics of "what Joran would do if someone hurt his loved one", I can only hope all those initial suspects will be grilled til one of them breaks.
Thank you for the ping!
FO - I have to say that it's downright remarkable, the way you have JVDS pegged with his stuttering and then not stuttering...wonder what effect this has had on Beth, given that speech path is her specialty! Surely the ebb and flow of Major Liar's speech patterns has not been lost on her!
Praying for a miracle break. And it can happen. How many AMW cases have been solved? Think I will go check on that...
"Mr. Justice", a pen name, asked me to send this to everyone I could think of to get this up everywhere we can. Read through it and see what you think- then please by all means share with anyone who will post it (media might find it interesting too).
He writes,
"To the People of Aruba:
It has been a year, since Natalee Holloway, was abducted on the island of Aruba. We have witnessed the repeated lies of Joran Van der Sloot and can only be left to wonder what he is hiding. We have witnessed less than appropriate treatment of Natalee's family by the Aruban government, as Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, has on more the one occasion said he is sick of this case and in turn Natalee. It is clear that this story is not going away and that is to my surprise, as I am sure it is to yours. It is time to realize that the problem can never go away for the family of Natalee; nor will it for Aruba until the whole truth is known. It is clear that Natalee's family cannot trust the Aruban government and it is a position that I support, it is also clear that Aruba would prefer to pretend this never happened. It did happen! Natalee became the victim of local criminals on the island of Aruba.
Even if I were to believe as some claim she is alive and simply ran away, that would not account for the many lies of Joran Van der Sloot; nor would it eliminate the fact she was a stranger to Aruba and it would be next to impossible for her to have left the island by whatever means without a local witnessing it. Why would a local have kept quiet allowing their country to be exposed to this black eye? I am sure you can conclude as I, that there is only one logical explanation, that whatever one witnessed was criminal in nature. Some have even gone as far as to claim Natalee's classmates are responsible for her disappearance, but that is flawed. How could they have hidden her body, so well in a few hours on an island that they were strangers on? Surely, if Natalee is dead it is at the hands of someone(s) that knows the island well. The conclusion must be that the enemy is within the Aruban community. On an island of approximately one-hundred-thousand people, surely someone not criminally involved knows something or has heard something. Why have they not come forward to the police? Do they fear the government? Even if it is not for Natalee's family, come forward for the sake of the Aruban people.
Here are some questions that I ponder; the investigation has been poorly run, is it out of corruption or lack of intelligence in conducting investigations? If the answer lies in the former, than it would explain why no physical evidence or body has been found. On the other hand if it is out of the latter, then it seems unlikely some physical evidence accidentally has not been recovered. However, the police continue to pursue a rape/murder scenario. That would not be worthy of an investigative gold star. Does one really think that the perfect crime has been committed or might it be a bad investigation? Why is it that Karin Janssen, Dennis Jacobs, and all other investigators have not been replaced? While I do not think they are conducting the best investigation possible, even if they were and at this stage with no justice it would only be prudent to bring in a new team. That may be able to see what they have missed, a fresh set of eyes and perspective. I can think of a multitude of kidnapping scenarios and not just sexual slavery. It is clear that there is a sex slavery problem the world over and in particular this region, it is shameful that some would choose to mock such a suggestion and even if it never happened in Aruba before consider this; something always has to have a beginning. I can even come up with none sex slavery scenarios involving Joran Van der Sloot.
The situation is clear: Natalee's family cannot move forward and Aruba will not be allowed to move forward, until the truth is known. It is vital for the sake of Arubans, that this case be solved. Someone amongst the Aruban community knows what happened to Natalee; is it you, your neighbor, a friend, or a stranger? Understand that there is but one victim and it is Natalee. It is natural to want to have someone to blame for our problems, even though more often than not we alone are responsible. I can understand the desire of Arubans to blame Natalee's family and in particular Beth for their problems and black eye. It must be conceded that their actions are in response to the abduction of their daughter and the fact the police allowed known liars to run loose in the form of Joran Van der Sloot and his father. If Joran is guilty all blame falls on him and if he is innocent he still must shelter a lot of the blame, one can only wonder how it would have been different had he chosen truth over lies. You want someone to blame? Look no further than Joran Van der Sloot. It is time to be a hero for Aruba and come forward with the truth of what happened to Natalee.
Mr. Justice"
I don't think of it as a specific date to honor Natalee, because I truly feel that I honor her every day," Beth Twitty, Holloway's mother, told ABC News. "We don't have answers, and we are still in the middle of an active investigation. … We have raised expectations every time we hear of a new arrest and we think that, 'Oh maybe this is it' maybe this won't be a dead end."
"Aruba needs to stop with the senseless arrests and really get focused on who these suspects are that they're going after," Twitty told ABC News. "Not just wind up with dead ends again, and again, and again."
To read the rest
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=2018398&page=1
http://et.tv.yahoo.com/celebrities/14861/
Beth Holloway Twitty: One Year Later
"Nobody would give up until one thing has happened," Beth says. "Either charges have to be filed or the case has to be closed and right now we still have an active investigation, no charges have been filed. We're doing just what any parent would do at this point."
For more on Beth's story, watch tonight's ET.
Good post and I agree. Joran KNOWS exactly WHERE Natalee is. He and his father and perhaps the Kalpoe bros. also put her there. You are so right, what an inappopriate answer: "I would HATE her"!! Do you remember the one where he said "If she showed up right now I'd kick her butt for getting us all in trouble"!! Astounding but also very revealing.
http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2006/02/joran-van-der-sloot-honest-or-not.html
Here's the first part of that post:
I watched the interview with Chris Cuomo and Joran van der Sloot last night. I taped it and went back this morning to write down the conversations in the areas that concerned me. I will share them with you.
The first thing I noticed was that Joran was very neutral. He was your classic neutral person in this interview. He didn't show emotions, he didn't get excited, he didn't get angry -- he just spoke monotone without emotions. Joran was a blank slate 99.9% of the time. However, when you look at other videos of Joran, he is not a blank slate. He expresses emotion. His face is expressive.
This raises a red flag for me immediately. Joran should be full of emotions. Anyone would be full of emotions being wrongly accused. However, if you are accused of something you did -- you would have every reason to hide those emotions. Wouldn't you?
In looking at the Joran case, I will tell you that Joran is a difficult read. When someone doesn't offer up emotions like Joran, and conceals them quite well, we are only left with one thing: the facts. Is what Joran saying logical? Does it fit? Is he answering questions like an honest man?
Joran did offer a few odd smirkish smiles at strange times. They weren't in "contradiction" to what he was saying, but they were odd and what I'd consider inappropriate in their timing. These raise more red flags but by themselves they are not enough to say anything. I personally don't think a normal person who is innocent in his situation would smirk or smile when he did but this is not enough to form an opinion. It is just a clue to a bigger picture.
With all real life stories, when you add up the pieces of the puzzle -- you get a picture. You will get a picture of the truth, or you will see a lie. I don't think I've ever called out that I didn't believe anyone without a mountain of clues. One thing may be odd or out of character -- but when multiple things rear their head and create a pile of questions -- you can't deny the painting that stands before you.
Below I will review segments of the interview with you:
CC = Chris Cuomo
J= Joran
CC: Did you remember who initiated the kissing?
J: Ah...yeah. I did.
CC: Did you ever say that she was the one who started kissing you?
J: I don't know. Maybe. I said a lot of things.
Now Joran can't remember the lies he told? He knows the truth. He just doesn't want to tell you. Often times thought not always when people say "maybe" they mean "yes".
J: We were planning on going to my house...because she said she wanted to go to my house.
CC: What were your intentions in taking her to your house?
J: Um...my intentions to take her to the house were...yeah..um...to have sex with her."
Did she want to go to Joran's house -- or did he want sex? Which is it?? I suspect it was the latter.
Chris Cuomo goes on to say that Joran has second thoughts. He decides not to take Natalee to his house because he says his father and brothers are sleeping. Then he says Natalee has an idea to go to the light house on the northeast coast to see sharks.
I find this very odd:
a) Most people don't look for sharks in the dark. This isn't logical. I don't think Natalee said this.
b) Joran first wants to go to his house sometime after midnight -- and then he decides not too because he realized his family is sleeping. I don't believe this. It isn't logical. It wasn't like he was going to bring Natalee home at 10:00 p.m. and then next thing it was 2:00 a.m. It was midnight or later the first time he thinks about bringing her home. He knew his family was sleeping then! I'm not buying this.
Also, later in the evening, Joran says he made up all the lies the first time around because he had a girlfriend and didn't want his family and friends to think bad of him -- but HERE he was willing to bring Natalee HOME to his house. He obviously wasn't worried about what his dad or family thought then -- was he? This points to deception. Another piece of the picture.
CC: It's 1 a.m., and you say Natalee wanted to see sharks. Are there a lot of sharks around Aruba?
J: No. Not at all. But she wanted to see the sharks. Yeah...and I don't know. I told her there are no sharks on Aruba.
When Joran says "Yeah, I don't know" he smiles very oddly -- as if he does in fact know something. It's perplexing.
Another odd piece of this picture. Which picture is it painting for you? An honest one or a deceptive one?
Chris Cuomo says Joran says he left (Natalee on the beach) without his shoes.
CC: Should the fact that you left your shoes be seen as a sign of panic? That you were nervous and scared about what had happened there?
J: No. Because that is not what happened.
Joran has glint of a smile again when he replies to Chris Cuomo. Why is he smiling? Another question mark. Another piece of the picture.
J: I'd left them on the beach, I'd walked to the car, we got in the car, and right then, there, I couldn't go back because... we were going home.
The timing of his pause in the sentence above is odd "because...(Was he thinking of a reason?)...we were going home."
Furthermore, is his answer logical? Absolutely not. Add to that -- his shoes were never found.
We are painting a picture here. Actually Joran is...What do you see?
CC: When you heard that a girl had gone missing on the beach what did you think?
J: Ummm.....well, the first thing that popped into my head was...(explanative/bleep)...what if something happened to her? What if she went swimming...I was thinking after everything she told me, she probably might have gone back to her hotel, hooked up with...gone to someone else...hooked up with someone else and wanted to stay another day on the island.
First of all his answer is not free flowing. It is broken up, hesitant, chopped, and not logically said at times. Second, the fact that he insinuates that she "probably, might have hooked up with someone else" is disturbing. He is trying to push everything away from himself.
Chris Cuomo say something to the effect of why didn't you go to the police and tell them everything you know. That would be a normal reaction.
J: That's what should have been the reaction...but...ah...I guess...ah.. we decided that I didn't want anyone to know that happened.
This is interesting because there are three boys here -- but clearly this is about him. He says "we decided that I didn't want..." He decided. That's the truth. Furthermore, he stutters for words a lot. When people tell the truth -- they don't stutter like this... Just another piece of the picture.
CC: What is your first impression of Natalee's mother?
J: ... She screamed at me, tell me where my daughter is.
CC: And did you?
J: I told her I don't know.
Chris Cuomo goes on to say to the audience, " But he told them more that that. " Joran told everyone that he and his friends dropped off Natalee at the Holiday Inn.
CC: People don't lie when they have nothing to hide. Why did you lie if you had nothing to hide about Natalee ?
J: I lied because...yeah...I was scared. I had a girlfriend at the time. I didn't want my dad to think bad about me, I didn't want my friends to think bad about me."
Earlier, Joran was willing to bring another girl who was not his girlfriend home -- to have sex with him -- and he wasn't worried about what his parents might think THEN. But NOW he cares?? This doesn't add up.
Second, he had a girlfriend yet he is out with Natalee and wants to have sex with her. This show that Joran doesn't not have good moral values. He is deceptive and willing to use people for his own benefit regardless of HOW others feel. He admits to that much.
CC: Why not just tell them the truth?
J: I didn't want anyone to know. I didn't want anyone to know I left her on the beach.
If you honestly didn't do anything -- why would you lie? It just doesn't add up. Most normal people would get out there and start looking, would confess everything they know in hopes of finding Natalee. They would think about Natalee instead of themselves.
CC: You tell the police that Natalee fell out of the car when she got out to go (at the Holiday Inn). Why did you tell them that? (Referring to Joran's lies).
J: For no specific reason.
At this point, Joran gives a smirk that is puzzling. I believe there is a reason. I believe at one point Natalee did fall out of the car.
CC: Was there a little bit of the truth in it? Was Natalee more drunk than you are letting on?
J: No, not at all.
When Joran says "No. Not at all." There is another odd grin.
Family of Alabama teen missing in Aruba pass anniversary quietly
5/30/2006, 1:53 p.m. CT
By JAY REEVES
The Associated Press
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) — Relatives of Natalee Holloway marked the first anniversary of her disappearance quietly Tuesday, still searching for answers about what happened to the Alabama teenager who mysteriously vanished during a high school graduation trip to Aruba.
Father Dave Holloway worked at his insurance agency in Meridian, Miss., catching up on claims after a holiday weekend, while mother Beth Twitty spent the day in Montreal working on the Web site of her new organization to promote safe travel.
To read the rest:
http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-21/1149015561264740.xml&storylist=alabamanews
A POX ON THE ARUBA BOOBS
By STEVE DUNLEAVY
May 30, 2006 -- THE memories for Beth Holloway Twitty came flooding back.
Memories of a beautiful young daughter, Natalee, whose passionate love of life vanished on the island of Aruba exactly one year ago today.
But also nightmare memories - of a frustrating, bumbling investigation on the island and ugly threats against her life.
"One of the several threats I received was that if I stayed on the island, I would be chopped up in little pieces, put in a fish trap and floated out to sea," she said.
John Q. Kelly, her Manhattan-based lawyer, who on the stand chopped O.J. Simpson into little pieces in a civil suit, told me:
"Obviously, we don't know exactly where those threats came from, and the police there don't seem to care. But there is a huge back-street drug market on the island and, frankly, a lot of people don't want Americans poking around there.
"The investigation has been a terrible example of a mixture of utter incompetence and corruption."
Dave Holloway, Natalee's father and Beth's ex-husband, told me, "Three weeks after Natalee's disappearance, the assistant prosecutor, Amalin Flanegin, quit the case.
"She indicated to me she pointed police in the obvious direction . . . and they ignored her."
I caught up with Beth Holloway on the phone as she was boarding a flight to Montreal to expand an organization she started, Safe Travels Foundation.
"It is to inform people before going to foreign places how to proceed locally if faced with a crisis," she said.
"I'm extremely unwelcome in Aruba, so we could not even have a memorial service for Natalee one year after her disappearance. I'll never set foot on that island again."
"Nor will I," echoed Dave.
As for me - I once spent a vacation there, but I wouldn't go back if they paid me.
Steve Dunleavy always struck me as an oddball, but I enjoy his writing. He can be like a pitbull on a mission. Loved his last line..."I wouldn't go back if they paid me."
It has been 13 days since the civil suit with Kelly. I hope it is a good sign that the judge is taking this long to rule on the case. Just looking forward to hearing something and praying Kelly wins big time!
Enjoyed reading Mr Justice's opinion.
I've hoped someone on Aruba would do the right thing and come forward with the truth. Problem is who do they go to with the truth?
Dennis Jacobs?
Karin Janssen?
Telling the truth to the corrupt won't do any good. They just make it go away.
Remember three girls came forward with their truth of being victimized. Dennis Jacobs made sure they went away.
Dennis Jacobs can make evidence disappear faster than the disappearing victim.
I suppose the truth could be told to the FBI, but it won't matter in Aruba. Skeeter's tape of Deepak went to the FBI. But the truth didn't make it past Aruba's truth shredder.
The only justice I see in Aruba are their self-inflicted wounds as Aruba slowly bleeds to death.
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