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What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....?
End The War on Freedom ^ | June 18, 2003 | Bill St. Clair

Posted on 08/10/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

A friend of mine recently forwarded me a question a friend of his had posed: "If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals? (I'm not being facetious: I accept the possibility that what happened in Germany, or similar, could happen here; I'm just not sure that the potential good from an armed citizenry in such a situation outweighs the day-to-day problems caused by masses of idiots who own guns.)" If I may, I'd like to try to answer that question. I certainly do not think the writer facetious for asking it. The subject is a serious one that I have given much research and considerable thought to. I believe that upon the answer to this question depends the future of our Constitutional republic, our liberty and perhaps our lives. My friend Aaron Zelman, one of the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, once told me:

"If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied, MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic."

Note well that phrase: "and the will to use it," for the simply-stated question, "What good can a handgun do against an army?", is in fact a complex one and must be answered at length and carefully. It is a military question. It is also a political question. But above all it is a moral question which strikes to the heart of what makes men free, and what makes them slaves. First, let's answer the military question. Most military questions have both a strategic and a tactical component. Let's consider the tactical.

A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good. The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but you don't mind terribly.)

Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes.)

They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all. Now let's consider the strategic aspect of the question, "What good can a handgun do against an army....?" We have seen that even a poor pistol can make a great deal of difference to the military career and postwar plans of one enemy soldier. That's tactical. But consider what a million pistols, or a hundred million pistols (which may approach the actual number of handguns in the U.S. today), can mean to the military planner who seeks to carry out operations against a populace so armed. Mention "Afghanistan" or "Chechnya" to a member of the current Russian military hierarchy and watch them shudder at the bloody memories. Then you begin to get the idea that modern munitions, air superiority and overwhelming, precision-guided violence still are not enough to make victory certain when the targets are not sitting Christmas-present fashion out in the middle of the desert.

I forget the name of the Senator who observed, "You know, a million here and a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about serious money." Consider that there are at least as many firearms--handguns, rifles and shotguns--as there are citizens of the United States. Consider that last year there were more than 14 million Americans who bought licenses to hunt deer in the country. 14 million--that's a number greater than the largest five professional armies in the world combined. Consider also that those deer hunters are not only armed, but they own items of military utility--everything from camouflage clothing to infrared "game finders", Global Positioning System devices and night vision scopes. Consider also that quite a few of these hunters are military veterans. Just as moving around in the woods and stalking game are second nature, military operations are no mystery to them, especially those who were on the receiving end of guerrilla war in Southeast Asia. Indeed, such men, aging though they may be, may be more psychologically prepared for the exigencies of civil war (for this is what we are talking about) than their younger active-duty brother-soldiers whose only military experience involved neatly defined enemies and fronts in the Grand Campaign against Saddam. Not since 1861-1865 has the American military attempted to wage a war athwart its own logistical tail (nor indeed has it ever had to use modern conventional munitions on the Main Streets of its own hometowns and through its' relatives backyards, nor has it tested the obedience of soldiers who took a very different oath with orders to kill their "rebellious" neighbors, but that touches on the political aspect of the question).

But forget the psychological and political for a moment, and consider just the numbers. To paraphrase the Senator, "A million pistols here, a million rifles there, pretty soon you're talking serious firepower." No one, repeat, no one, will conquer America, from within or without, until its citizenry are disarmed. We remain, as a British officer had reason to complain at the start of our Revolution, "a people numerous and armed." The Second Amendment is a political issue today only because of the military reality that underlies it. Politicians who fear the people seek to disarm them. People who fear their government's intentions refuse to be disarmed. The Founders understood this. So, too, does every tyrant who ever lived. Liberty-loving Americans forget it at their peril. Until they do, American gun owners in the aggregate represent a strategic military fact and an impediment to foreign tyranny. They also represent the greatest political challenge to home-grown would-be tyrants. If the people cannot be forcibly disarmed against their will, then they must be persuaded to give up their arms voluntarily. This is the siren song of "gun control," which is to say "government control of all guns," although few self-respecting gun-grabbers such as Charles Schumer would be quite so bold as to phrase it so honestly.

Joseph Stalin, when informed after World War II that the Pope disapproved of Russian troops occupying Trieste, turned to his advisors and asked, "The Pope? The Pope? How many divisions does he have?" Dictators are unmoved by moral suasion. Fortunately, our Founders saw the wisdom of backing the First Amendment up with the Second. The "divisions" of the army of American constitutional liberty get into their cars and drive to work in this country every day to jobs that are hardly military in nature. Most of them are unmindful of the service they provide. Their arms depots may be found in innumerable closets, gunracks and gunsafes. They have no appointed officers, nor will they need any until they are mobilized by events. Such guardians of our liberty perform this service merely by existing. And although they may be an ever-diminishing minority within their own country, as gun ownership is demonized and discouraged by the ruling elites, still they are as yet more than enough to perform their vital task. And if they are unaware of the impediment they present to their would-be rulers, their would-be rulers are painfully aware of these "divisions of liberty", as evidenced by their incessant calls for individual disarmament. They understand moral versus military force just as clearly as Stalin, but they would not be so indelicate as to quote him. The Roman Republic failed because they could not successfully answer the question, "Who Shall Guard the Guards?" The Founders of this Republic answered that question with both the First and Second Amendments. Like Stalin, the Clintonistas could care less what common folk say about them, but the concept of the armed citizenry as guarantors of their own liberties sets their teeth on edge and disturbs their statist sleep. Governments, some great men once avowed, derive their legitimacy from "the consent of the governed." In the country that these men founded, it should not be required to remind anyone that the people do not obtain their natural, God-given liberties by "the consent of the Government." Yet in this century, our once great constitutional republic has been so profaned in the pursuit of power and social engineering by corrupt leaders as to be unrecognizable to the Founders. And in large measure we have ourselves to blame because at each crucial step along the way the usurpers of our liberties have obtained the consent of a majority of the governed to do what they have done, often in the name of "democracy"--a political system rejected by the Founders. Another good friend of mine gave the best description of pure democracy I have ever heard. "Democracy," he concluded, "is three wolves and a sheep sitting down to vote on what to have for dinner." The rights of the sheep in this system are by no means guaranteed.

Now it is true that our present wolf-like, would-be rulers do not as yet seek to eat that sheep and its peaceable wooly cousins (We, the people). They are, however, most desirous that the sheep be shorn of taxes, and if possible and when necessary, be reminded of their rightful place in society as "good citizen sheep" whose safety from the big bad wolves outside their barn doors is only guaranteed by the omni-presence in the barn of the "good wolves" of the government. Indeed, they do not present themselves as wolves at all, but rather these lupines parade around in sheep's clothing, bleating insistently in falsetto about the welfare of the flock and the necessity to surrender liberty and property "for the children", er, ah, I mean "the lambs." In order to ensure future generations of compliant sheep, they are careful to educate the lambs in the way of "political correctness," tutoring them in the totalitarian faiths that "it takes a barnyard to raise a lamb" and "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." Every now and then, some tough old independent-minded ram refuses to be shorn and tries to remind the flock that they once decided affairs themselves according to the rule of law of their ancestors, and without the help of their "betters." When that happens, the fangs become apparent and the conspicuously unwilling are shunned, cowed, driven off or (occasionally) killed. But flashing teeth or not, the majority of the flock has learned over time not to resist the Lupine-Mandarin class which herds it. Their Founders, who were fiercely independent rams, would have long ago chased off such usurpers. Any present members of the flock who think like that are denounced as antediluvian or mentally deranged. There are some of these dissidents the lupines would like to punish, but they dare not--for their teeth are every bit as long as their "betters." Indeed, this is the reason the wolves haven't eaten any sheep in generations. To the wolves chagrin, this portion of the flock is armed and they outnumber the wolves by a considerable margin. For now the wolves are content to watch the numbers of these "armed sheep" diminish, as long teeth are no longer fashionable in polite society. (Indeed, they are considered by the literati to be an anachronism best forgotten and such sheep are dismissed by the Mandarins as "Tooth Nuts" or "Right Leg Fanatics".) When the numbers of armed sheep fall below a level that the wolves can feel safe to do so, the eating will begin. The wolves are patient, and proceed by infinitesimal degrees like the slowly-boiling frog. It took them generations to lull the sheep into accepting them as rulers instead of elected representatives. If it takes another generation or two of sheep to complete the process, the wolves can wait. This is our "Animal Farm," without apology to George Orwell.

Even so, the truth is that one man with a pistol CAN defeat an army, given a righteous cause to fight for, enough determination to risk death for that cause, and enough brains, luck and friends to win the struggle. This is true in war but also in politics, and it is not necessary to be a Prussian militarist to see it. The dirty little secret of today's ruling elite as represented by the Clintonistas is that they want people of conscience and principle to be divided in as many ways as possible ("wedge issues" the consultants call them) so that they may be more easily manipulated. No issue of race, religion, class or economics is left unexploited. Lost in the din of jostling special interests are the few voices who point out that if we refuse to be divided from what truly unites us as a people, we cannot be defeated on the large issues of principle, faith, the constitutional republic and the rule of law. More importantly, woe and ridicule will be heaped upon anyone who points out that like the blustering Wizard of Oz, the federal tax and regulation machine is not as omniscient, omnipotent or fearsome as they would have us believe. Like the Wizard, they fan the scary flames higher and shout, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

For the truth is, they are frightened that we will find out how pitifully few they are compared to the mass of the citizenry they seek to frighten into compliance with their tax collections, property seizures and bureaucratic, unconstitutional power-shifting. I strongly recommend everyone see the new animated movie "A Bug's Life". Simple truths may often be found sheltering beneath unlikely overhangs, there protected from the pelting storm of lies that soak us everyday. "A Bug's Life", a childrens' movie of all things, is just such a place.

The plot revolves around an ant hill on an unnamed island, where the ants placate predatory grasshoppers by offering them each year one-half of the food they gather (sounds a lot like the IRS, right?). Driven to desperation by the insatiable tax demands of the large, fearsome grasshoppers, one enterprising ant goes abroad seeking bug mercenaries who will return with him and defend the anthill when the grasshoppers return. (If this sounds a lot like an animated "Magnificent Seven", you're right.) The grasshoppers (who roar about like some biker gang or perhaps the ATF in black helicopters, take your pick) are, at one point in the movie, lounging around in a "bug cantina" down in Mexico, living off the bounty of the land. The harvest seeds they eat are dispensed one at a time from an upturned bar bottle. Two grasshoppers suggest to their leader, a menacing fellow named "Hopper" (whose voice characterization by Kevin Spacey is suitably evil personified), that they should forget about the poor ants on the island. Here, they say, we can live off the fat of the land, why worry about some upstart ants? Hopper turns on them instantly. "Would you like a seed?" he quietly asks one. "Sure," answers the skeptical grasshopper thug. "Would you like one?" Hopper asks the other. "Yeah," says he. Hopper manipulates the spigot on the bar bottle twice, and distributes the seeds to them.

"So, you want to know why we have to go back to the island, do you?" Hopper asks menacingly as the thugs munch on their seeds. "I'll show you why!" he shouts, removing the cap from the bottle entirely with one quick blow. The seeds, no longer restrained by the cap, respond to gravity and rush out all at once, inundating the two grasshoppers and crushing them. Hopper turns to his remaining fellow grasshoppers and shrieks, "That's why!" I'm paraphrasing from memory here, for I've only seen the movie once. But Hopper then explains, "Don't you remember the upstart ant on that island? They outnumber us a hundred to one. How long do you think we'll last if they ever figure that out?"

"If the ants are not frightened of us," Hopper tells them, "our game is finished. We're finished."

Of course it comes as no surprise that in the end the ants figure that out. Would that liberty-loving Americans were as smart as animated ants. Courage to stand against tyranny, fortunately, is not only found on videotape. Courage flowers from the heart, from the twin roots of deeply-held principle and faith in God. There are American heroes living today who have not yet performed the deeds of principled courage that future history books will record. They have not yet had to stand in the gap, to plug it with their own fragile bodies and lives against the evil that portends. Not yet have they been required to pledge "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor." Yet they will have to. I believe with all my heart the lesson that history teaches: That each and every generation of Americans is given, along with the liberty and opportunity that is their heritage, the duty to defend America against the tyrannies of their day. Our father's fathers fought this same fight. Our mother's mother's mothers fought it as well. From the Revolution through the world wars, from the Cold War through to the Gulf, they fought to secure their liberty in conflicts great and small, within and without.

They stood faithful to the oath that our Founders gave us: To bear true faith and allegiance--not to a man; not to the land; not to a political party, but to an idea. The idea is liberty, as codified in the Constitution of the United States. We swear, as did they, an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And throughout the years they paid in blood and treasure the terrible price of that oath. That was their day. This is ours. The clouds we can see on the horizon may be a simple rain or a vast hurricane, but there is a storm coming. Make no mistake.

Lincoln said that this nation cannot long exist half slave and half free. I say, if I may humbly paraphrase, that this nation cannot long exist one-third slave, one-third uncommitted, and one-third free. The slavery today is of the mind and soul not the body, but it is slavery without a doubt that the Clintons and their toadies are pushing.

It is slavery to worship our nominally-elected representatives as our rulers instead of requiring their trustworthiness as our servants. It is slavery of the mind and soul that demands that God-given rights that our Forefathers secured with their blood and sacrifice be traded for the false security of a nanny-state which will tend to our "legitimate needs" as they are perceived by that government. It is slavery of a more traditional sort that extorts half of our incomes to pay, like slaves of old, for the privilege of serving and supporting our master's regime.

It is slavery to worship humanism as religion and slavery to deny life and liberty to unborn Americans. As people of faith in God, whatever our denomination, we are in bondage to a plantation system that steals our money; seizes our property; denies our ancient liberties; denies even our very history, supplanting it with sanitized and politicized "correctness"; denies our children a real public education; denies them even the mention of God in school; denies, in fact, the very existence of God.

So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of the question: "What good can a handgun do against an army?" The answer is "Nothing," or "Everything." The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and soul of the man or woman who holds it. One may also ask, "What good can a sling in the hands of a boy do against a marauding giant?" If your cause is just and righteous much can be done, but only if you are willing to risk the consequences of failure and to bear the burdens of eternal vigilance.

A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny: "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered. The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly, nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall know them."

The time is late. Those who once has trouble reading the hour on their watches have no trouble seeing by the glare of the fire at Waco. Few of us realized at the time that the Constitution was burning right along with the Davidians. Now we know better.

We have had the advantage of that horrible illumination for more than five years now--five years in which the rule of law and the battered old parchment of our beloved Constitution have been smashed, shredded and besmirched by the Clintonistas. In this process they have been aided and abetted by the cowardly incompetence of the "opposition" Republican leadership, a fact made crystal clear by the Waco hearings. They have forgotten Daniel Webster's warning: "Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands--what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the world." Yet being able to see what has happened has not helped us reverse, or even slow, the process. The sad fact is that we may have to resign ourselves to the prospect of having to maintain our principles and our liberty in the face of becoming a disenfranchised minority within our own country. The middle third of the populace, it seems, will continue to waffle in favor of the enemies of the Constitution until their comfort level with the economy is endangered. They've got theirs, Jack. The Republicans, who we thought could represent our interests and protect the Constitution and the rule of law, have been demonstrated to be political eunuchs. Alan Keyes was dead right when he characterized the last election as one between "the lawless Democrats and the gutless Republicans." The spectacular political failures of our current leaders are unrivaled in our history unless you recall the unprincipled jockeying for position and tragi-comedy of misunderstanding and miscommunication which lead to our first Civil War.

And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery. If it is to be the former, I will meet you at the new Yorktown. If it is to be the latter, I will meet you at Masada. But I will not be a slave. And I know that whether we succeed or fail, if we should fall along the way, our graves will one day be visited by other free Americans, thanking us that we did not forget that, with help of Almighty God, in the hands of a free man a handgun CAN defeat a tyrant's army.


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I was sure this had been posted before, but couldn't find it. Seems to have been written during the Clinton administration. It needs to be re-read form time-to-time.
1 posted on 08/10/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

WOLVERINES!


2 posted on 08/10/2009 3:51:25 PM PDT by Terry Mross ( I hate all politicians. Including republicans.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why do you think they have been trying to socially reform the military with gays in the military and women in combat? They know that if it comes to the thin red line between soldiers defending liberty and the constitution and killing and imprisoning fellow citizens the soldiers will stand with the citizen.


3 posted on 08/10/2009 3:51:55 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Why are those who claim to have open minds so afraid of open debate?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This story pops up from time to time, always a nice refreshing read.


4 posted on 08/10/2009 3:53:11 PM PDT by jblann1
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
A well-timed review. Study carefully; there may be a test later.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

5 posted on 08/10/2009 3:55:57 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Terry Mross

We all STILL have too much to lose.When it comes to nothing to lose then its on like donkey kong.Just remember the french resistance and also what the soviets had to contend with.


6 posted on 08/10/2009 3:57:00 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life is tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Maelstorm

Homosexuals have been in every military since we lived in caves. I knew several during my time in the service, both male and (many more) female. None of the services train females for combat to the degree they do males, and I don’t see that changing in the near future. Remember the young female soldier that was taken captive early in the Iraq war? She couldn’t remember how to operate her M-16 rifle during the firefight. We had plans to evacuate our female soldiers from Korea in case of attack, which would have, of course, left us short-handed in an emergency. If they think that plan is working, they’d best re-think it.


7 posted on 08/10/2009 3:59:24 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A ragtag bunch of yahoos in Iraq sure did give our military an awful lot of trouble. Of course, they wouldn’t be as nice to us, but I’m sure we could cause them some pain.

But the military would be on our side. It’s Obama’s ‘civilian military force’ that we’d have to contend with.


8 posted on 08/10/2009 4:01:35 PM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (The worst is behind us. Unfortunately it is really well endowed.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
It took 130,000 of the best troops in the world to control over 12 million people of which 15% were “insurgents”. Four “insurgents” with crude weapons could tie up 150 Marines for most of a day.
9 posted on 08/10/2009 4:04:54 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit The law will be followed, dammit!)
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To: imahawk
Just remember the french resistance .....

LMAO every time I see that myth posted.

Resistance, yeah sure, that explains that whole Petain Vichy thing when French Police and militia's rounded up Jews for their German overlords.

And more than half of air dropped supplies ended up in the hands of the communist tireurs who were turning in right wing resistance groups when they weren't murdering them outright.

The whores of Place Pigalle showed more resistance then the average frenchie

10 posted on 08/10/2009 4:04:57 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

BTTT


11 posted on 08/10/2009 4:06:07 PM PDT by hattend (Sarah Palin's minion - The Bush years divided us but Obama has united us all into an angry mob.)
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To: Terry Mross

That was a great movie!

And anyone who has seen it understands how to fight against a modern army.

You have to bide your time and pick your battles.


12 posted on 08/10/2009 4:08:31 PM PDT by beancounter13
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I enjoyed reading that, thank you! In a deteriorated situation, things break down into predators, prey and warriors. A warrior is someone who will not let themselves or those they protect be the victims. A warrior arms themselves with faith, intelligence, character and the biggest honking weapon they can snag.


13 posted on 08/10/2009 4:08:33 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto held off the the entire mechanized Nazi machine for two weeks with paultry numbers of handguns, molotov cocktails, and whatever they could scrape together.


14 posted on 08/10/2009 4:09:07 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon it adds up to real money. - Senator Everett Dirksen

There are approximately 836,000 law enforcement officers in the United States (Dept. of Justice). There are approximately 1.4 million active duty military personnel. The FBI estimates the number of privately-held firearms in the United States at 200 million. That's why "your gun versus an army" is not a particularly plausible case.

15 posted on 08/10/2009 4:10:56 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Covenantor

I’ve heard that it was amazing how the ranks of the Resistance swelled, after the war was over.


16 posted on 08/10/2009 4:12:45 PM PDT by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I bet if it ever comes to the Army against private (conservative) citizens, all the rules & squeemishness regarding collateral damage will go out the window.


17 posted on 08/10/2009 4:13:33 PM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t think that is an argument. Who knows about what was going on in caves. :-) It is one thing to know homosexuals it is another to allow the celebration of the lifestyle in the military. I know of several cases of male rape have occurred and gay activism is incompatible with the military. Also homosexuality is a disease ridden lifestyle and open homosexuality is a distraction from the goals of the military.

I do believe my basic assertion is true. The left has been trying to soften the military through forced social programs and they do want to re-educate our soldiers not just on the two issues I mentioned buy down the line.
They have been brainwashing the public for decades the military is the one place they have yet to conquer.


18 posted on 08/10/2009 4:14:13 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Why are those who claim to have open minds so afraid of open debate?)
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To: Billthedrill

Huh? I think you just made this gentleman’s case, or did I misunderstand you?


19 posted on 08/10/2009 4:15:49 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When misfortune begins to befall the Praetorian Guards, eventually the emperor finds himself alone.


20 posted on 08/10/2009 4:17:04 PM PDT by The Duke ("Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Democrat Party?")
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To: Riley
"I’ve heard that it was amazing how the ranks of the Resistance swelled, after the war was over.

Indeed...made one wonder what that D-day fuss was all about.

Typical Parisian resistance cell. code name "Lucky Pierre"


21 posted on 08/10/2009 4:20:39 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Maelstorm

The Left has controlled the schools (at all levels) since at least the 1960’s. Almost everyone that goes into the military comes out of the public school system. I graduated high school in 1978, so I wasn’t nearly as indoctrinated as the kids today, although I saw signs of it in the 70’s, with the “stop pollution” and “save the whales” jazz.


22 posted on 08/10/2009 4:21:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"I forget the name of the Senator who observed, "You know, a million here and a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about serious money."


That well loved Statesman, Republican Senator from Illinois, Everett McKinley Dirksen. He also happened to be the father-in-law of Senator Howard Baker of Tennessee. Dirksen was legendary for his fondness for the common marigold. His wife Louella Carver Dirksen wrote a biography, "The Honorable Mr. Marigold: My Life With Everett Dirksen." The Dirksen Senate Office Building is named in his honor.
23 posted on 08/10/2009 4:25:23 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yes, I'm agreeing with the gentleman; sorry if I didn't manage to make that clear. But I doubt seriously it'll ever devolve to the level of a single-shot Liberator in the streets of the U.S. (It was a particularly crappy little gun anyway - it wasn't even rifled). This isn't France in the 40's.

What will happen is a slow incrementalism intended to leach the firearms out of the most armed citizenry anywhere. It is happening: environmental restrictions against lead ammunition, zoning regulations intended to make possession of firearms in urban and suburban areas impossible, attempts to stretch terrorism laws to cover domestic disarmament. That's what we have to watch for, IMHO.

24 posted on 08/10/2009 4:28:36 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
if it only takes out ONE traitor to this country before i go down, than it's done it's job... and there's one less traitorous bastard to hurt anybody else while going against their oath to defend this country from all enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC!!!
25 posted on 08/10/2009 4:31:55 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist -ww- I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
"But the military would be on our side. It’s Obama’s ‘civilian military force’ that we’d have to contend with."

ACORN (and the like) is the 5th column.

The czars make up the Star Chamber.

26 posted on 08/10/2009 4:35:11 PM PDT by knarf
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yeah but it has gotten worse. I went to public school. I remember getting the little environmental tracks. They weren’t requiring us to sign gay pledge cards like in some public schools and having boys dressing as girls at the prom. The world operates just fine without such activism and there is no need for it.

I did go through a short period where I was somewhat a socialist. It sounded like a nice idea if everyone had the same basic house and the same basic things and then I realized that such a quaint idea would soon become a requirement that no one have anything but the basics and that didn’t sound like a very good place to live unless one thought of themselves as worthless with no hope for any better.

That said it appears to me that the military has had to undo a lot of the public school ego-gratification crap.


27 posted on 08/10/2009 4:36:56 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Why are those who claim to have open minds so afraid of open debate?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The gun will do whatever it can do. Look at the situation that recently occurred in India in which unarmed people were tortured and murdered by stinking muslim pigs. Had I been there, I would have fired every round I have into those rotten bastards. Every round except the last one, because if I cannot take out all of my enemies, then I will take out myself instead. I will not be taken, I will not be imprisoned, nor tortured, nor executed.

My gun puts me in charge of my fate. Obviously, I do not ever want to have to face this situation, but should it arise, I have control. I will never beg upon my knees for mercy from a tyrant.


28 posted on 08/10/2009 4:37:23 PM PDT by chris37
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Billthedrill
I think you just made this gentleman’s case, or did I misunderstand you?

It sounds like one-hundred to one odds if each weapon had a citizen to handle it. I bet that's better than the odds of slipping on ice. It may not be possible to know how many patrolmen or troopers, if asked to take up arms against their brothers and neighbors, would ditch the powers that be and join the citizenship patrols, but it is not as if there is not a precedence.

29 posted on 08/10/2009 4:37:42 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Covenantor

I’m not going to hammer the French too hard, they *did* have people who risked- and suffered- much under the German occupation. Of that, there is no doubt in my mind.

I’ve heard though that after the war, half the Frenchmen you’d meet in a pub somewhere were garroting German sentries on a nightly basis- if you can believe what they say. :-)


30 posted on 08/10/2009 4:37:55 PM PDT by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: Terry Mross
WOLVERINES!

You rang?

31 posted on 08/10/2009 4:41:39 PM PDT by Jed Eckert
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To: Joe Brower

First thoughts when I saw this ping was the liberator pistol of WWII

.
Second thought was all hardened weapons platforms have soft pink centers.

Third thought was the 90 pound PC hired LEO SWAT split tail down the street from me has all I need when I want to take it.

Last but not least uncle sugar taught me skills that do not require firearms. Even a bunny wabbit will bite if cornered an no way out.

My opinions......


32 posted on 08/10/2009 4:43:05 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Riley

The problem with France and the French, and I speak the language and have been to school there, is that the best of them got killed in WW1, and WW2. The ones that were left to breed included some beautiful women, but the men, well, they’re short on some qualities.


33 posted on 08/10/2009 4:49:00 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I was on the phone last week with my son and we discussed this very topic. He is active Army, Infantry. 11 Bravo. He said they talked among themselves about this while in Iraq once in awhile. His said NO ONE he talked with, some Officers included, would obey any command to attack or harm U.S. citizens.

I felt better after that phone call.

34 posted on 08/10/2009 4:49:05 PM PDT by MountainDad
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To: Maelstorm

“Why do you think they have been trying to socially reform the military with gays in the military and women in combat? They know that if it comes to the thin red line between soldiers defending liberty and the constitution and killing and imprisoning fellow citizens the soldiers will stand with the citizen.”

There is no reason to believe that Gay people and women wouldn’t defend the Constitution. I would be more worried about the legions of gang-bangers and foreign nationals who are serving.

I once argued with a friend about the military takeover of America. I pointed out to him that as a percentage of population the Police and military are small. A certain percent of them wouldn’t go along with the scheme anyway. Add that to the millions of firearms and the rather large population of ex-military who are staunch defenders of the Republic in this country and you have a recipe for defeat.

They could control the urban areas but the more forceful and arrogant they become the greater the level of resistance they would engender which would lead to their ultimate downfall. The revenge a betrayed populace would exact would be horrific.

They will probably engineer a medical emergency instead.


35 posted on 08/10/2009 4:50:01 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: RKV

I studied French for three years in High School and in College, and didn’t have a lot of opportunities to use it. That was many years ago.

Now I deal with French speakers frequently, and can only remember the odd phrase here and there.

*sigh*


36 posted on 08/10/2009 4:52:30 PM PDT by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

With a handgun against an Army you can die like a man, with a vigorous second amendment and a citizenry armed as the founders intended you can live like a man.


37 posted on 08/10/2009 4:52:59 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (CommieCare: Need a Stent, Take a Pain Pill. Next!)
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To: Joe Brower

Mentally ready for the test later.


38 posted on 08/10/2009 4:53:09 PM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Later


39 posted on 08/10/2009 4:54:06 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The author of this piece appears to be Mike Vanderboegh as submitted by Bill St. Clair. It might be important to ask the AdminMod to change the author line.

In another posting of this piece it is prefaced by a quote from Federalist 28 which is quite appropriate:

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense, which is paramount to all positive forms of government; and which, against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success, than against those of the rulers of an individual state. ... Power being almost always the rival of power, the general government will at all times stand ready to check the usurpations of the state governments; and those will have the same disposition toward the general government. The people, by throwing themselves into either scale, will infallibly make it preponderate. If their rights are invaded by either, they can make use of the other as the instrument of redress. ...

"It may safely be received as an axiom in our political system that the state governments will in all possible contingencies afford complete security against invasions of the public liberty by the national authority."

40 posted on 08/10/2009 4:56:37 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Liberator The FP-45 Liberator was a pistol manufactured for the United States military during World War II for use by resistance forces in occupied territories. It was designed with the idea of offering an enemy soldier a cigarette, putting a round of .45 ACP twixt his eyes or in the base of his skull, and "liberating" the now deceased soldier's rifle, SMG, grenades, or anything else of military utility. A crude and clumsy weapon, the Liberator was never intended for front line service. It was originally intended as an insurgency weapon to be mass dropped behind enemy lines to resistance fighters in occupied territory. The weapon was valued as much for its psychological warfare effect as its actual field performance. It was believed that if vast quantities of these weapons could be delivered into Axis occupied territory, it would have a devastating effect on the morale of occupying troops. The plan was to drop the weapon in such great quantities that occupying forces could never capture or recover all the weapons. It was hoped that the thought of thousands of these unrecovered weapons potentially in the hands of the citizens of occupied countries would have a deleterious effect on enemy morale. The pistol had its origins in the US Army Joint Psychological Committee and was designed for the United States Army in 1942 by the Inland Guide Lamp Manufacturing Division of the General Motors Corporation in Dayton, Ohio.[1] The army designated the weapon the Flare Projector Caliber .45 hence the designation FP-45. This was done to disguise the fact that a pistol was being mass produced.[2] The original engineering drawings label the barrel as "tube", the trigger as "yoke", the firing pin as "control rod", and the trigger guard as "spanner". The Guide Lamp Division plant in Anderson, Indiana assembled a million[2] of these weapons. The Liberator project took about 6 months from conception to end of production with about 11 weeks of actual manufacturing time, done by 300 workers. The FP-45 was a crude, single-shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass produced. The ejection system was a wooden rod that was pushed down the barrel from the muzzle end to eject the fired cartridge case. The Liberator had just 23 largely stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. It fired a .45 caliber pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to the unrifled barrel, maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (less than 8 m). At longer range, the bullet would begin to tumble.
41 posted on 08/10/2009 4:57:41 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Terry Mross

It took them generations to lull the sheep into accepting them as rulers instead of elected representatives.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It only took a few generations of “free” government K-12 indoctrination. The very act of stepping their first foot into kindergarten teaches children that it is OK for the government to take from their neighbor to provide something their parents want for them.


42 posted on 08/10/2009 4:59:01 PM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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To: SLB

FYI


43 posted on 08/10/2009 4:59:11 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry. - Oliver Cromwell)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The other angle why the civilian populace in the US would not have to deal with tanks, A-10’s and the like is this:

As every combat vet can attest, war, even “limited” war, makes a mess of things. War doesn’t just kill people, it radically undercuts real estate valuations.... in a hurry.

If the motto of real estate agents is “location, location, location!” then the contra-positive to this is “don’t own any property where some young soldier or Marine lights off a 120mm smooth bore...”

Well, what happens when people do own property in the proximity of the military doing military-like stuff? Economic activity stops. Folks quit shopping, they sure as heck don’t take tourism side-trips to see the Abrams tear up the streets, folks pack up and leave Dodge... etc.

No economic activity, no tax revenue. No tax revenue... and the government soon has a problem funding government operations... like the military.

So the military would likely not be able to use all their big toys. They’d be down to boots in the street, much as the Brits were in North Ireland. And we all know how successful the Brits were at pacifying North Ireland, don’t we?


44 posted on 08/10/2009 5:00:23 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I really don't think the US government agents are going door to door taking our firearms away from us.

But if the fools try something like that, I predict there will be more dead government thugs than civilians.

45 posted on 08/10/2009 5:09:46 PM PDT by Prole (Please pray for the families of Chris and Channon. May God always watch over them.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Terry Mross

At the end of “Red Dawn” didn’t the Wolverines lose? I only remember them getting shot by the helicopters.


46 posted on 08/10/2009 5:17:24 PM PDT by Tucson_AZ
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To: dljordan

They simply don’t belong in the military. People who need their personal sexual lifestyle to be gratified publicly regardless of what type of sexual peculiar lifestyle they lead suggests they are unfit. It isn’t about whether they can serve admirably. That wasn’t my point, my point is that gay activism is just a way to mold the military and intimidate and soften it. Gays who keep their private lives private are not as much an issue to me. It is the leftist social activism and the false idea that homosexuality is normal. Very many cases of gay rape occur in the military but go unreported. Just as occurs in the public space.

Open homosexuality should not be endorsed or accepted in the military one because it is a behavior that is even more disease ridden than typical promiscuous behavior. Also members of the same sex living in close quarters should not be threatened with same sex attentions is what open homosexuality means in the military. A friend of mine related a story where he came upon an officer raping a subordinate male. Gay males are sexually aggressive and allowing them to openly serve will only increase this and increase the exposure to health risks associated with such populations.

They have a great tendency to take advantage of their positions to abuse others. This is far greater than the norm. We’ve seen this in the priesthood, we’ve seen this in teachers, we’ve seen this in police officers, and foster parents. Certainly heterosexuals do molest but homosexuals make heterosexuals look like pikers. Part of this is because so many of them have been molested themselves. Even Rock Hudson was abused when he was 9 and if you don’t find this you will find far too often that a older male has groomed an underling. This is not something we need in the military. They have enough crap and clap already.


47 posted on 08/10/2009 5:22:18 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Why are those who claim to have open minds so afraid of open debate?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I would expect the Military to turn on Obama if he ever suggested firing on our own people. The Military is keenly aware of their Oath to the Constitution.
48 posted on 08/10/2009 5:24:27 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy ("It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If the us gov’t, military or law enforcement turn against the people the most effective weapons would be explosives, not firearms.

The ragheads in Iraq know this and are using them to great success.


49 posted on 08/10/2009 5:28:37 PM PDT by Dayman (My 1919a4 is named Charlotte. When I light her up she has the voice of an angel.)
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To: imahawk

If it gets to the point we have nothing to lose, it could very well be too late. Churchill has a quote regarding such a circumstance.


50 posted on 08/10/2009 5:40:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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