Posted on 07/03/2008 4:35:19 PM PDT by SE Mom
Jay McKinnon, a self-described Department of Homeland Security-trained document specialist, has implicated himself in the production of fraudulent Hawaii birth certificate images similar to the one endorsed as genuine by the Barack Obama campaign, and appearing on the same blog entry where the supposedly authentic document appears.
The evidence of forgery and manipulation of images of official documents, triggered by Israel Insider's revelation of the collection of Hawaii birth certificate images on the Photobucket site and the detective work of independent investigative journalists and imaging professionals in the three weeks since the publication of the images, implicate the Daily Kos, an extreme left blog site, and the Obama campaign, in misleading the public with official-looking but manipulated document images of doubtful provenance.
The perceived unreliability of the image has provoked petitions and widespread demands for Obama to submit for objective inspection the paper versions of the "birth certificate" he claimed in his book Dreams from My Father was in his possession, as well as the paper version of the Certificate of Live Birth for which the image on the Daily Kos and the Obama "Fight the Smears" website was supposedly generated.
Without a valid birth certificate, Obama cannot prove he fulfills the "natural born citizen" requirement of the Constitution, throwing into doubt his eligibility to run for President.
McKinnon, who says he is 25-30 years old, operates a website called OpenDNA.com and uses the OpenDNA screen name on various web sites and blogs, including his comments and diary on The Daily Kos. In recent years he has divided his time between Long Beach, California and Vancouver, British Columbia. He is a Democratic political activist, frequent contributor to the left wing Daily Kos blog, and a fervent Barack Obama supporter.
(Excerpt) Read more at web.israelinsider.com ...
Patricia Decosta actually died in 1963. Her BC was posted on that site by her child.
Thanks! I did run across it later. I thought it was she who was a Freeper, but evidently it is her son/daughter that is.
Or we could just annex Panama...
Ummmmm, actually, no. He was born in a civilian hospital off the base.
You didn’t read it did you ?
Otherwise someone with your legal background would not continue to deny the fact that the law regarding unwed mothers precedes 1952.
You think the SC got there history wrong on the statute?
Maybe I am unusually dense today but I don't get what you are trying to tell me. You could try quoting the statute or language in the case you think I don't get. But just insulting me isn't helpful.
I see your latest insult only post dates my response by twenty-five seconds so maybe you haven't had a chance to read it. But I don't think I have said anywhere that either the law on unwed mothers or Sec. 309 didn't go back before 1952. The question is what the applicable version of the law in effect at a particular date provided for.
Obama wouldn't have passed on the illegitimate statute before his birth; and doesn't get an effective date for the later statute that picks him up. That's the way I read the statutes--if you think I have missed a word, tell me where. But posting pages of seemingly irrelevant material without specific references to applicable provisions and holdings just isn't any help.
Definitely not the law brother. To the contrary, Congress has no power to determine what constitutes Natural Born under the Constitution, other than to propose Amendments to the Constitution to the several states for consideration and adoption.
Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. They have produced "evidence" showing that that the hospital where the Arizona senator says he was born was not built until 1941--five years after McCain's birth. A review of the archival record shows that there was a small hospital at the Coco Solo submarine base in 1936 and also reveals the name of the U.S. Navy physician who signed McCain's birth certificate.
You know that is not correct because you know that Sec. 1409(c) which is the section at issue here was amended in 1988 by Pub. L. 100-525, Sec. 9(r)(2), which substituted "after December 23, 1952" for "on or after the effective date of this chapter" and which is the language on which we are focused.
The issue is what (c) said before amendment and to what periods it is applicable.
Have you noticed that many here can’t agree on what natural-born means? Is it born here? Is it born here to American parents? Is it born anywhere to American parents? In any case, we know what they meant because of their first immigration law passed in 1790.
No, don't say that. It's a complex statute which has been renumbered and amended with effective dates that are sometimes inconsistent with application dates in the statute. And I don't think either of us, certainly not me, are I & N legal experts.
The focus is on Sec. 1409(c) which governs illegitimate children born outside the US to a mother who is a US citizen. Much application to Obama seems doubtful because to get him to (c), you have to make him illegitimate and born outside the US. If you get him that far, doubtful he ever gets close to "naturally born".
But I would like to bury this issue conclusively so that we can say exactly what the law is under any given set of facts as they may develop.
Didn't we do that once and Jimmah gave it away?
That might or might not matter. Sometimes it is the residence of the parents that matters, not where the delivery occurred.
It's also not entirely clear that he was born in a civilian hospital off base. Back in the late 1930s, home births were much more common, I think my parents were each born at home. It was at least 30 miles to the nearest hospital for my maternal grandmother, and I don't know exactly where my paternal grandparents were living when my father was born, except that his BC shows "Choteau Montana". My father in law was born in a hospital, but he was also Cesarean and subsequently an only child, much to the chagrin of his mother, who was nonetheless quite thankful to have him, and she did end up with 5 grandchildren, and many great grandchildren, a few which she actually knew before she got too senile to know anyone.
Pretty sure my mother in law was a home birth too, and she isn't that much older than McCain. Let's see, she turned twelve on 7 Dec. 1941, (an easy date to remember, and my daughter's is the next day) so she was born in 1929 to McCain's 1936.
I was startled to find that while the hospital I was born in, in 1949, was established in 1889, making it the oldest hospital in the city, and the physical building was more or less as it was in '49 by the early '30s. (And is today, but it's not a hospital any longer, that's now across town) they didn't start delievering there babies until 1942.
Also there could have been some kind of medical facility that was less than a full hospital on base. The docs, or nurses, on the base may have made housecalls, especially for the wife of an officer whose father was already quite high ranking by the standards of the interwar Navy.
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Gatún ~ [Some say that McCain] was born at Coco Solo Naval Base, Canal Zone, located on the Atlantic side of the isthmus.
If he was born on the Atlantic side, he could not have been born at Coco Solo because Coco Solo Hospital wasn’t built until ‘41-‘42. He was born in ‘36.
This would mean that he was born in Colón Hospital, Republic of Panama, and not the Canal Zone. Colón Hospital is a short distance from Coco Solo.
But a couple of years ago or less, I read here on FR his father was stationed at Quarry Heights, Canal Zone, located on the Pacific side (not Coco Solo). A couple of hundred yards past the front gate was Gorgas Hospital, our civilian hospital located in the Canal Zone. This means he would have been born at Gorgas Hospital, which was the nearest hospital.
Now this brings up another point:
If he was born at Colón Hospital, Panamanian territory,
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aruanan ~ "...They have produced "evidence" showing that that the hospital where the Arizona senator says he was born was not built until 1941--five years after McCain's birth. A review of the archival record shows that there was a small hospital at the Coco Solo submarine base in 1936 and also reveals the name of the U.S. Navy physician who signed McCain's birth certificate."
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Thanks, aruanan, for the puzzle piece...
from your link, SE Mom:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2041735/posts
“Why, indeed, does not Obama make this issue go away? At this point, there’s no good reason — unless he doesn’t have a birth certificate, or has one he feels compelled to hide. But now, after more than three weeks, with the affirmations of his campaign spokesman that the Fight the Smears birth certificate image is “real”, he is in an even tighter corner: the real paper birth certificate of the candidate for President had better look a lot like the one on the web site, or he’ll have a lot of explaining to do.
It is a matter of time now before a legal challenge is issued in one of the 50 states, or the call for paper proof is issued by a major pundit, publication, or political figure. The longer the candidate waits, the higher the risk.”
Fair comment, IMO.
"Some bloggers are questioning John McCain's right to run for the presidency on the basis of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone. They have produced "evidence" showing that that the hospital where the Arizona senator says he was born was not built until 1941--five years after McCain's birth. A review of the archival record shows that there was a small hospital at the Coco Solo submarine base in 1936 and also reveals the name of the U.S. Navy physician who signed McCain's birth certificate."
Well text of the quote is correct. Unfortunately he wasn't born at Coco, according to his birth documents posted here yesterday evening, he was born in the French hospital in Colon, well outside the zone. Maybe you want to make the argument that being delivered by a US Navy physician is close enough?
But still within the Canal zone to US Citizen parents, I believe. And by the 1904 law, that still makes him a citizen at birth, if that is the same as being a natural born citizen.
But be that as it may, the supposition that he was born off base is driven by the construction date of the on base hospital. But as I pointed out earlier, not all babies, or even most babies, were born in hospitals in 1936.
Because there isn't any conclusive authority on the question. And it is a reasonable view as demonstrated by the attacks on Goldwater and Romney Sr. and the current press and McCain's concern in the Senate that it was intended to mean in the territory of the 50 states.
But it is an arguable question. I don't view the 1790 statute as having much bearing because it was passed long before we had possessions and territories outside the US and when we got them, we then significantly modified the statute to revise the rules.
Dammit!
For a few precious seconds I was fully satisfied that at least one of this election’s major candidates was constitutionally qualified to hold that office.
Thanks a bunch, pal.
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