Skip to comments.The Great Birth Index Fiasco
Posted on 09/22/2010 11:52:14 AM PDT by butterdezillion
The Great Birth Index Fiasco
Back in February I requested to see, among other things, the hand-written birth index for 1961 (or microfilms of the hand-written index), which existed in 1980 and was required to be retained permanently. The HI State Archivist confirmed that the HDOH should have the document, but the HDOH said they didnt have it. The entire history of that request is here.
The concluding response the HDOH gave was a claim that they did not have the handwritten 1961 birth index but that they could print the computer-generated 1961 birth index at a cost of $98.75, which I should send if I wanted them to send the record. They enclosed a Notice to Requester which outlined the reason for the specific cost (which included 4 15-minute periods for an office worker to segregate records, in addition to an hour to search for the record). The fine print of the Notice to Requester said that all requester obligations for the request had to be fulfilled within 20 business days or the agency would consider the request abandoned. Because I had never made a request for the computer-generated birth index there were no obligations for me to fulfill. The HDOH was simply telling me what it would cost to fill the request if I chose to make it.
On July 29th I chose to make that request. I sent an e-mail saying that I would be sending a money order for $98.75 in order to get the computer-generated 1961 birth index and asking if I could have someone pick it up at their office on Thursday, Aug 5th, if the money order was in their office by Mon, Aug 2. I also sent a hand-written letter officially requesting the computer-generated birth index, together with a copy of the Notice to Requester on which the cost had been stated and a money order for $98.75. My mail delivery confirmation showed that the written request and money order was in the HDOH office at 6:08AM on Aug 4th. (Ive mistakenly quoted it as 6:02AM elsewhere, including to the HDOH).
On Monday, Aug 2 I received an e-mail from the HDOH saying that my e-mail request had been marked by their IT Dept as being possible spam; I should re-send. I did not re-send because my question was moot by then and I had already sent the paper request and money order anyway.
On Aug 3rd Mark Niesse of the AP asked the HDOH for copies of the last 3 requests for Obamas records. Mine was one of those 3 requests. My e-mail account name was not redacted from the records the HDOH gave Niesse; he contacted me via Facebook to see if he could interview me for an article he was working on. (I did not respond to him until after the article ran.) On Aug 4th (while my paper request and money order was in their office) Niesse interviewed Janice Okubo, who told him that they offer the computer-generated 1961 birth index for $98.75 but nobody had sent in any money yet and they were asking the AG for a ruling on whether they should continue to offer that. She said that Obama is in their 1961 birth index and they allow the public to view index records in their office.
So I have proof that my e-mail request for the computer-generated 1961 birth index had arrived in their office on July 29th and a paper request and money order had arrived in their office by the start of the day on Aug 4th the very day when Janice Okubo told Mark Niesse that they offer the 1961 birth index for $98.75 (the amount of my money order). IOW, I have proof that I had my request and money order for the full amount in the HDOH office while they were still offering the 1961 birth index.
Niesses article wasnt actually published until Saturday, Aug 7th. In response to Okubos public statement in that article that they hadnt received any money from anybody, I contacted Niesse to find out when he had interviewed Okubo and found that it was during the workday on Aug 4th.
Because I was concerned about how Niesse was able to find out my last name when I only use the name Nellie in my communications with the HDOH, I also e-mailed a request to see any UIPA responses the HDOH had sent out containing a request by me. They sent me a cover letter and enclosed their response to Niesses request, including my July 29th request - flagged as possible spam but with almost the entire text visible.
I sent the HDOH a Cease and Desist letter , asking them to remove all references to my last name from their contacts with me and from the UIPA responses where they have referenced my last name. They have ignored my request, as their latest response to me contained my last name.
I also contacted the HDOH and after a series of calls and workers was told they couldnt find a record of my request; they didnt know what had happened to it but I should contact hdohinfo. So I did. Eventually they told me in an Aug 13th e-mail that they were sending back my money order because I had abandoned my request since I hadnt responded to the Notice to Requester within 20 days. And sure enough, they sent my money order back.
I reminded them that the Notice to Requester had been sent to me to tell me that I COULD request the computer-generated 1961 birth index, since the request I HAD actually made (for the handwritten index) could not be filled because that permanent record no longer exists (they claim). I asked them exactly when they say they received my request for a computer-generated 1961 birth index, since it had not been 20 business days since my first contact with their office requesting that particular record. At first they insisted that they had already answered all my questions so I made an actual UIPA Request for a copy of my request for the computer-generated 1961 birth index, including the date that it arrived in their office.
They had already sent back the money order that was included with my paper request. They had replied to my e-mailed request, asking me to re-send it. And they had sent copies of my e-mailed request to both Mark Niesse and myself in response to UIPA requests. Thats 4 different times that the HDOH showed that they had my request in their office - the e-mail request received by July 29 and the snail-mail request by Aug 4th.
On the 10th business day they e-mailed to say there were no records responsive to my request that they had no record of my request for the computer-generated 1961 birth index. What they had acknowledged 4 different times before they now claim they dont have.
Theyve also said they only collect birth data in 5-year increments so they cant release the 1961 birth index. So in the same request as in the last paragraph I also requested to see any communications to or from your office regarding what changed from the time you told me that you could release the computer-generated birth index for 1961 and now, as well as any duly-passed law or regulation which says that index data may only be released in increments of 5 years.
No records responsive to my request. (It is worth noting that their MARRIAGE INDEX is in a 6-year increment for the years 1960-65 only, based upon copies of birth index pages they sent in response to a request)
Ive also asked to see their communications asking for a ruling by the Hawaii Attorney General . They responded that there are no records responsive to my request. Compare this with the AG Administrative Rules procedures to amend rules (see Subchapter 4 ) or to ask for a declaratory judgment (see Subchapter 5 ) from the AG which clearly require written communications.
2. The HDOH has changed their claims to say they can only release index data in increments of 5 years. But there are no laws or regulations which say that and they have the physical capability of printing whatever they want. Disclosure of the exact year of birth is apparently not forbidden, because according to Niesses article, Okubo already told him that Obama is in their 1961 birth index. HRS 338-18 requires index data to be released to the public.
3. Janice Okubo stated in a public interview for an article that was published nationally that they were asking the Hawaii Attorney General for a ruling on the implementation and/or interpretation of laws and rules a process which is required to be done in writing. But the HDOH claims there are no communications to or from their office regarding why their offer of the 1961 birth index no longer exists.
4. All this is done to keep from having to release index data they claim is already accessible to the public at their office. They have stated that all index data is really about Obama. They have stated that Obama is in the 1961 birth index. But they appear to be lying and/or illegally destroying records, as well as disobeying HRS 338-18, UIPA, and their own Administrative Rules in order to try to avoid having to put their money where their mouth is. I give the complete details about this case because it is representative of a whole host of similar experiences I have had with the HDOH, as those who have read the blog are aware. Sadly, this seems to be typical fare from this government agency. And nobody in Hawaiis government, media, or law enforcement will hold them accountable for it.
But reasonable people all over this country are asking, Why? Why so much unethical and illegal behavior to hide the public index records they say theyve already confirmed?
Is there a point to all this?
a computer generated list is worthless and easily forged / falsified
and they know it
how about asking for 1959 or any other year? i bet they would have the hand-written index for those years
Apparantly Obama is a Martian and therefore ineligible to hold the office that he was unfortunately elected to.
Furtive behavior by the HDOH?
Good luck ... and thank you for trying.
Shoot. I just added another link so people don’t have to read through the entire history in the first paragraph in order to see the HDOH’s final response saying they don’t have the handwritten index.
The point is they are documentably lying in legal responses to me. Somebody who has the power to do a full legal investigation should find out exactly why.
Negate my post 7 ...
Good luck ... and thank you, butterdezillion, for trying.
There is pretty good evidence that they have falsified what they call the “1960-64 Birth Index” in two different places. Lord willing, I will post more about that soon.
So yes, it is easily falsified.
They won’t give the handwritten index for any other year, though, because that would show that they are treating the information surrounding Obama differently than everything else, and they have to hide that fact to (or at least try).
That’s why they won’t print out long-form BC’s. That’s why they won’t print out non-certified abbreviated certificates. That’s why they won’t print out letters of verification. All those things are required by statute or by UIPA, since the HDOH Administrative Rules say that records which may be released MUST be released.
They can’t break the law just for Obama, so they break the law for everybody. Cool, huh?
Thanks for the correction. Though you might want to wish Humblegunner good luck too, if he wants to convince me that none of this matters. lol
Hasn't anyone done this?
Lots of people have done it. In March Obama’s name was not in what the HDOH called the 1960-64 birth index, but now it is. See http://myveryownpointofview.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/ya-cant-always-get-what-ya-want/
There are other anomalies too. In the most recent image of the 1960-64 birth index, notice that right above “Obama II, Barack Hussein” is “Obado, Duplicate Mae”. There is no other Mae Obado though. The name which is at the place that Mae Obado would be if there was a duplicate record for her.... is “Obama II, Barack Hussein”.
This site calls it "passing the buck" or "multiplying procedures and paperwork", and even uses the term sand-bagging, but in a more narrow way than that which I've heard used. Burying someone in paperwork also would be part of sand-bagging, as are deliberately "mistaken" responses, or "losing" correspondence.
The gaslighting is them constantly changing things on you. That's a technique of attempting to drive someone crazy.
You must be frustrated, of course! Keep the heat on as much as you can. This is obviously a deliberate cover-up.
But it's more than that too. It's evil. By applying these tactics the bad group there at that Hawaiian DOH is bringing harm upon themselves. You can't lie and deceive to harm someone without it seriously negatively impacting you.
Can you ping the list for me, please?
Nice post Girl! I am on to reading it now! :)
Those are definitely apt descriptions. I couldn’t believe it when I contacted the Elections Office and Archivist’s office and got responses right away. In fact, I think every office in Hawaii that I’ve worked with has been prompt and helpful except the HDOH, OIP, and Ombudsman’s Office.
What’s happening at the HDOH matches what’s going on with the Passport Office though. The same techniques, the same claims that things got “lost”, the same falsification of documents, the same waste of time...
The thing that seems most predictive of whether those techniques will be used is whether or not the agency has (or claims to have, or should have) records pertaining to Obama.
Any bets as to why that is? ;)
Yes, but what a HELLOVA Class Action lawsuit THAT could be!
I’m sure nobody would have standing if it’s a class-action suit. Don’t you have to be the only one who is harmed in order to have standing? (tongue-in-cheek, slight exaggeration borne out of frustration)
If you say, "But we knew nothing about this,"
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?
This morning as I was working I thought about how many times the HDOH or others have thought they were putting roadblocks in my path. But the block they put up forced me to go a different direction, and the direction I was forced to go was ultimately more productive than the road that was blocked.
These people cannot harm me. All things will work together for good for me, because I have God’s promise of that. These people are trying to set traps, as BVW said. And they will fail, as you said. They are only entangling themselves in the webs they weave.
The top of my head has just come off, and now I support Hawaiian independence (except Pearl Harbor).
I studying pests, such as rodents, rats, mice I observe that rats of ten years past appear in exactly the same places and travel the same routes of today’s. You have persistence, are careful, diligent in recording, thoughtful, analytical, and have a sense of purpose.
They have a sense of purpose and a strong sense of membership and loyalty! The love to play mind games, for that at core — a mind game — is the core and basis of their philosophy. But just as their philosophies have a toy-like veneer of complexity built over a center of deception, lies, envy, jealousy and hatred of others: emptiness! Just as their philosophies are their abilities to engage!
Is there a point to all this?
Yeah but most liberals and after-birthers don’t get it that’s why its posted here on FR. I’ll condense it for you, Our government is corrupt and a bunch of liars.
lol. You have a way with words. =)
Someone who lives in Hawaii made sure to tell me that not everybody there in Hawaii drinks the kool-aid. I can’t help but wonder if a lot of the people there are in the same situation as we are with our whole country: we know it’s corrupt but we haven’t figured out how to change it. God knows we’re trying, and hopefully so are they. There’s just nobody in a position of authority who is willing to even touch the corruption and illegal activity.
Remember Butter ? we got powerful “ Friends “ in high places, the most high place where evil can’t touch.
You just figured that out today?
Yeah but most liberals and after-birthers dont get it thats why its posted here
That'll convince 'em, for sure. Office in Hawaii refuses to sell records.
Yep, that nails the case shut alright.
Print this thread and get on the next plane to Washington.
Assymetric political warfare. We hit Obama from so many sides regarding so many things, sooner or later we exploit a found weakness in his defense.
I think there are a lot of people who are getting sick of the lies, sick of feeling stuck on a train track that will eventually drop them over a cliff. I think people are rediscovering that truthfulness, fairness, and the rule of law are worth fighting for, even if it means you have to wake up and get off the couch.
The rodents may not even know what’s about to hit.
If you think this is just about “refusing to sell records” then you don’t understand what the HDOH is required to do, or how they have lied and changed the rules whenever somebody gets a little too close to the truth for their comfort.
That’s what this is really about. Are you OK with that kind of behavior from your government agencies?
Good to see you here. And nice summary. =)
Now in these times, as reality and deception engage in public, as the Obama hollowness and his banal child-like jealousies and hatreds become obvious, as "their" ability to spin a mighty fabric of public legend out of NOTHING frays, like a shirt become cheesecloth by use and age, can't keep up with his incompetence and emptiness and the public's finally, after hearing his deceiver's lie forms repeated and repeated, able to reckon this man for what he is ... "they" are left with nothing but that fabric of bad, dirty deceptions and a deceiver's habit. Who will take them in as the model -- the model of the kind of folks who were Obama insiders and inside supporters -- becomes known? No one!
That's why the smartest are leaving the plague ship as quickly as they can run down the ropes.
Sorry about the printed format of that! Thats not how I typed it out!
Here's a thing to consider: In track and field, the hurdler's and track officials don't call the hurdles themselves the works of Satan, nor do they call the good fellows who set the hurdles out on the track to impede the runners "little Satans!"
At least, I don't think so. I only tried the hurdles in high school gym class, way back when hurdles were made from boulders and fallen trees. I tripped over every one, but I still finished.
Stay the course, butter. Keep up the good fight.
You’ve got a lot of friends here following all your battles.
Here is that terrible post reformatted:
Between that information which is at the link you posted, what Butter is doing, and the investigations of a few others the conspiracy is becoming clear.
~Nancy Pelosi Certified Obama for Hawaii. Hawaii never did, that’s why there is a special form for Hawaii, different than all the other 49 states.
~The State Department Passport office has lost or destroyed Passport documents which illuminate when Obama’s mom first got her Passport and why.
~The Hawaiian Department of Health has changed its rules in order to protect ALL information which might possibly lead to the release of any information regarding Obama -— ILLEGALLY. There is no evidence of any new regulations or official communications regarding when the Government of Hawaii instructed the HDOH to change it’s rules. HDOH did it ‘on their own’ with no legal authority. They are breaking the Laws of the State.
~HDOH has decided to completely restrict ALL information to EVERYONE in order to avoid the appearance of treating Obama’s records (or lack there of) differently than anyone else’s. Once again, this is a direct violation of Hawaiian State law.
There is a vast cover-up going on folks. It makes Watergate look like a kiddie pool.
This cover-up is hiding Barack Obama’s Birth Records. There are two reasons why. 1) Obama’s birth is either listed as a birth at home with no doctor or hospital signature on it. Or 2) there is no long form in Obama’s file. A witness as signed a affidavit stating there is no long form in his file. That means Obama is NOT a Natural Born Citizen.
As to #1), Hawaii registered every baby ever brought into the office. Why? Because if that child was enrolled in any state program, that child generated federal funds from the United States Government. That includes everything from vaccination programs to school to welfare - anything the state might list a number for to gain more federal dollars for. Hawaii desperately needed the money to deal with the huge influx of immigrants coming from Asia - think VietNam war... So not only are they covering Obama’s ass, they are covering up fraud on an state institutional level going back to the days the Islands became a state.
Hawaii, in giving up Obama’s birth Records, or the lack there of, would also be exposing itself to having to answer the question WHY a baby (lets be hypothetical here for a moment) born in a foreign country - with no birth documents AT ALL - could be registered in the state as having a right to a COLB from the state of Hawaii, thereby giving that child all the benefits of a (fraudulent) birth in the state, INCLUDING AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.
Hawaii is covering Obama’s ass because it is covering up Institutional fraud worth untold billions of dollars and an untold number of people with American Citizenship who HAVE NO RIGHT TO IT. And that INCLUDES Obama. Even if the man was born in Hawaii, because of this fraud, Hawaii CANNOT prove that he was born on the island.
THAT is why the Hawaiian Democrat Party refused to Certify that Obama is Constitutionally eligible for POTUS. He does not have a form with a Doctor’s signature on it, nor was he born in a hospital anywhere in Hawaii. This is the simplest reason as to why Hawaii is doing what it is doing.
Many have wondered why Hawaii would be covering Obama’s ass. We have wondered why Lingle, a Republican, would be covering Obama’s ass. They aren’t covering Obama at all really.
They are covering up Citizenship Fraud on a MASSIVE scale.
Obama just happens to be one of those babies who is included in that bunch, regardless if he was born on the island or not. If he WAS, his documents will show no doctor signature, and will not list a hospital. It has an address on a late filing form.
Yes, that is conjecture, but what evidence exists points to just that.
Still, if he was born in a house in Hawaii, his records and citizenship would be suspect because literally THOUSANDS of foreign born babies got U.S. citizenship by their parents doing the EXACT same thing, listing a house address as the place of birth.
If he was not born on the Islands, then Obama is not a citizen of the United States as his mother could not confer her citizenship upon him, she was too young.
That means Obama is British.
Because Hawaii is literally illegally locking everything down, I am leaning toward thinking that Obama has a form which lists an address for his birth - a late form filing. Because of the massive fraud which Hawaii engaged in at that time and for years afterwords, Hawaii can’t certify him as LEGALLY Constitutionally Eligible for POTUS and in fact DID NOT in its filed form of Certification - Which prompted Nancy Pelosi to fraudulently Certify Barack Obama as Constitutionally Eligible for POTUS.
Who has the balls to crack it? Who in the media has the nuts to do it? Who has the GUTS to fully investigate this and expose this story to the world?
I'd rather they didn't provide my information to anyone.
How about you?
whenever somebody gets a little too close to the truth for their comfort.
So there is a records office in Hawaii that could settle this whole thing?
And you tried to get them to release the records to you and they wouldn't?
I’m glad I have constant reminders of that. =)
God may have been working in your life all along and you might not be aware of it, just keep a open heart and mind for God to touch your life.
Depends on what information.
They had no problem revealing my last name even though they were supposed to abide by the alias I gave them. They kept doing it even though I sent them a Cease and Desist letter.
But they won’t release a non-certified abbreviated birth, marriage, or death certificate, which their rules and the law say they can disclose to anybody who asks for it.
In both instances they broke the law - one by revealing what they shouldn’t have, and the other by refusing to reveal what they are required.
Is that problematic for you?
The people who could settle this whole thing were the judges and (possibly) the Secretaries of State. But the judges refuse - based on the crime of concealment that was done by Fukino, who knew Obama’s BC is not legally valid but gave deceptive statements that people understood to mean the opposite. And she never corrected the mis-perceptions. That’s concealment in a matter of federal jurisdiction, and it is a federal crime.
And the Secretaries of State most likely didn’t even know that they could get a copy of Obama’s BC without his permission because Fukino kept saying that they can’t release to records without Obama’s permission unless they have a legitimate interest - but the provision that allows a SOS to get a BC without permission was in the HDOH Administrative Rules. Those rules are required by law to be posted on the HDOH website at all times, but Fukino had those rules removed.
So none of this would have happened if Fukino and her workers had not committed crimes.
And they are still breaking laws in their dealings with me. I guess I can at least say they’re consistent.
Please see post 45! :)
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