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New Method Could Revolutionize Dating of Ancient Treasures
Eurekalert! ^ | Tuesday, March 23, 2010 | Michael Bernstein

Posted on 03/24/2010 5:54:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

In conventional dating methods, scientists remove a small sample from an object, such as a cloth or bone fragment. Then they treat the sample with a strong acid and a strong base and finally burn the sample in a small glass chamber to produce carbon dioxide gas to analyze its C-14 content.

Rowe's new method, called "non-destructive carbon dating," eliminates sampling, the destructive acid-base washes, and burning. In the new method, scientists place an entire artifact in a special chamber with a plasma, an electrically charged gas similar to gases used in big-screen plasma television displays. The gas slowly and gently oxidizes the surface of the object to produce carbon dioxide for C-14 analysis without damaging the surface, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at eurekalert.org ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: c14; godsgravesglyphs; radiocarbondating; shroudofturin
New Method Could Revolutionize Dating of Turin Shroud
by Rossella Lorenzi
Wednesday, March 24, 2010
"In the case of the shroud of Turin, we would roll the cloth into as tight a package as we can make it," Rowe said.

The Turin shroud already underwent carbon-14 dating in 1988. At that time, three reputable laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Ariz., concluded that the cloth on which the smudged outline of the body of a man is indelibly impressed was a medieval fake dating from 1260 to 1390, and not the burial cloth wrapped around the body of Christ.

However, the radiocarbon dating did not prevent many scholars from formulating various hypotheses over the validity of the carbon-14 tests, including the possibility that they were conducted on a sample taken from a medieval patch.

Rowe's method could finally put aside such speculation since it could place the date for the entire shroud.

1 posted on 03/24/2010 5:54:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 240B; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

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2 posted on 03/24/2010 5:55:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

In before the predictable posting of a Helen Thomas pic.


3 posted on 03/24/2010 6:00:15 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: SunkenCiv

“Dating of Ancient Treasures”

I immediately thought of Clinton saying “that’s a good-looking mummy”. I freep too much.


4 posted on 03/24/2010 6:02:24 PM PDT by ProfoundBabe (RightyPics.com)
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To: SunkenCiv

I date an ancient treasure every saturday night!


5 posted on 03/24/2010 6:12:01 PM PDT by tuckrdout ("Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."--MLK)
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Nobody bring up the dinosaurs dep’t — I know it’ll come up, so:

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/archaeology/dating/radio_carbon.html

[snp] Radioactive carbon, produced when nitrogen 14 is bombarded by cosmic rays in the atmosphere, drifts down to earth and is absorbed from the air by plants. Animals eat the plants and take C14 into their bodies. Humans in turn take carbon 14 into their bodies by eating both plants and animals. When a living organism dies, it stops absorbing C14 and the C14 that is already in the object begins to disintegrate. Scientists can use this fact to measure how much C14 has disintegrated and how much is left in the object. Carbon 14 decays at a slow but steady rate and reverts to nitrogen 14. The rate at which Carbon decays (Half-life) is known: C14 has a half-life of 5730 years. Basically this means that half of the original amount of C14 in organic matter will have disintegrated 5730 years after the organisms death; half of the remaining C14 will have disintegrated after another 5730 years and so forth. After about 50,000 years, the amount of C14 remaining will be so small that the fossil can’t be dated reliably. [nsnp]

http://www.radiocarbon.org/

http://www.c14dating.com/int.html

first Americans (sidebar link):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/radiocarbon.html


6 posted on 03/24/2010 6:15:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: tuckrdout

Well played. ;’)


7 posted on 03/24/2010 6:16:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Michael.SF.
You shouldn't give encouragement to the immature twits around here.

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8 posted on 03/24/2010 6:16:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: ProfoundBabe; Lazamataz

I’d hit it.


9 posted on 03/24/2010 6:17:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv

LOL


10 posted on 03/24/2010 6:20:09 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: tuckrdout

Is that a brag or a cry out for help?


11 posted on 03/24/2010 6:21:16 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (At least Hitler got the Olympics for Germany)
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To: SunkenCiv

Only if my “treasure” doesn’t read this.....


12 posted on 03/24/2010 6:26:19 PM PDT by tuckrdout ("Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."--MLK)
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To: Michael.SF.

LOL!


13 posted on 03/24/2010 6:26:42 PM PDT by tuckrdout ("Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."--MLK)
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To: SunkenCiv
Sample error due to intrusions?
14 posted on 03/24/2010 6:26:57 PM PDT by Little Bill (Carol Che-Porter is a MOONBAT.)
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To: Little Bill

The bulk of the sample would have to be intrusions to have much impact. :’)


15 posted on 03/24/2010 6:40:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: Michael.SF.; SunkenCiv
In before the predictable posting of a Helen Thomas pic.

The article states 'Ancient Treasures' not 'Ancient Relics'!

16 posted on 03/24/2010 7:03:36 PM PDT by uglybiker (BACON!!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I thought that we couldn’t carbon date bone fossils because fossilization replaces the organic material with dissolved minerals. I was also under the impression that the R/C dating of the Shroud of Turin was of questionable value due to a fire that occured in the cathedral around the time that the tests indicated as the age of the Shroud.


17 posted on 03/24/2010 7:31:29 PM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: sig226; SunkenCiv
"I thought that we couldn’t carbon date bone fossils because fossilization replaces the organic material with dissolved minerals."

As post #6 says, carbon 14 dating is only possible to about 50,000 years ago. Typical fossils run to millions, or hundreds of millions of years old. Even fossils younger than 50,000 years, if they have no actual bone left, must be dated by methods other than carbon 14.

This article lists at least 18 other radio-metric methods, besides carbon 14, for dating more ancient materials.

An example is Uranium-Lead dating.

18 posted on 03/25/2010 12:21:46 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: sig226

There have been claims that the repair portions sewn or woven (I dunno which) into the cloth after some fire damage centuries ago were the only bits used for the carbon dating. They weren’t. However, see the wiki-wacky-pedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Radiocarbon_dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_14_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin

the RC dating paper’s abstract:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v337/n6208/abs/337611a0.html

If the carbonized portions of the cloth (iow, right at the point where the newer and older were joined) had been used, it *could* result in skewed results — but if so, the skew would be toward an *older* than actual date, rather than the reverse (iow, it would appear older, not younger than actual).

The samples were taken instead from the corners, which are image-free and basically just plain cloth, which minimizes damage and takes material from a part where no one is going to look anyway. :’)


19 posted on 03/25/2010 7:00:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: uglybiker

One man’s trash...


20 posted on 03/25/2010 7:57:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv
I haven't got a subscription to Nature, so I can't read the abstract. However, repaired parts of the shroud weren't at issue. As I understood it, the theory works like this:

The cathedral was built with medieval timbers.
These timbers would contain carbon atoms reflecting the ratio of C12to C14 appropriate for the time when they were cut to build the cathedral.
R/C dating operates on the principle that organic material ingests atmospheric carbon and the amount of atmospheric carbon is fixed when the organic material dies.
The atmospheric percentage of C12 to C14 is known, so that if the sample precentage is different, we can apply the decay rate of C14 to determine how many years have elapsed since the material stopped absorbing atmospheric carbon.
But, the fire would have released large amounts of CO2 from the medieval timbers, which would contaminate the entire cloth, not just the parts that were repaired.
The R/C dating method involves releasing CO2 from the material to obtain the carbon needed to study the ratio.
Because the fire contaminated the cloth with CO2 from a later date, the test may not be correct.

This wasn't Bible-thumpers who came up with this. Even if the R/C method proved it to be a forgery, the Shroud of Turin still poses an intriguing mystery - how did they do it? We still don't know.

21 posted on 03/25/2010 9:47:39 PM PDT by sig226 (Mourn this day, the death of a great republic. March 21, 2010)
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To: SunkenCiv

There’s nothing that could convince some folks here that the earth is over 10,000 years old.


22 posted on 03/26/2010 5:01:28 PM PDT by cerberus
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To: SunkenCiv

Sorry Sunken...I know that’s a fake...she is older than that!


23 posted on 03/26/2010 5:17:24 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: cerberus

“There’s nothing that could convince some folks here that the earth is over 10,000 years old.”

I believe the earth and the universe is ‘eons’ old. I believe this creation is about 6,000 years old. It seems reasonable that the unexplained, ‘acient’ fossil evidence is from a previous creation, on this same earth. It is likely that the dinasaurs existed in that previous creation. The ‘Great Ice Age’ that covered much or most of the earth with glaciers probably was before this creation.

Lucifer, when he was still ‘one of the good guys’ was given dominion over the earth - I believe that was dominion over a creation - living, breathing creatures, likely humanoids. It seems likely that when Lucifer (Satan) became the would-be-usurper and was cast out of heaven, the creation existing then was destroyed, likely by flood and deep freeze.

Just my thoughts. Of course, none of this matters. We will be shown more someday, if it is important, and we will know. ‘Til then, just relax and enjoy the ride, focusing on Him! He is in control!


24 posted on 03/26/2010 5:33:33 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

Interesting thoughts.....I don’t quite see it that way myself, but thanks.


25 posted on 03/27/2010 11:32:32 AM PDT by cerberus
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

;’)


26 posted on 03/28/2010 4:29:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv
New Method Could Revolutionize Dating of Ancient Treasures

Sounds like a handbook for gigolos who go after rich prunes.

27 posted on 03/28/2010 4:32:15 PM PDT by 70times7 (Serving Free Republics' warped and obscure humor needs since 1999!)
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To: 70times7

Oh sure, look on the bright side.


28 posted on 03/28/2010 6:13:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: SunkenCiv
However, the radiocarbon dating did not prevent many scholars from formulating various hypotheses over the validity of the carbon-14 tests, including the possibility that they were conducted on a sample taken from a medieval patch.

They were conducted on a sample taken from a medieval patch. I wonder what this technique would do to other evidence such as pollen. Wash it away?
29 posted on 12/24/2010 7:01:08 AM PST by aruanan
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


30 posted on 09/20/2012 5:47:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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