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Ancient dog skull unearthed in Siberia
BBC ^ | August 3, 2011 | Hamish Pritchard

Posted on 08/03/2011 9:53:08 AM PDT by decimon

A very well-preserved 33,000 year old canine skull from a cave in the Siberian Altai mountains shows some of the earliest evidence of dog domestication ever found.

But the specimen raises doubts about early man's loyalty to his new best friend as times got tough.

The findings come from a Russian-led international team of archaeologists.

The skull, from shortly before the peak of the last ice age, is unlike those of modern dogs or wolves.

The study is published in the open access journal Plos One.

Although the snout is similar in size to early, fully domesticated Greenland dogs from 1,000 years ago, its large teeth resemble those of 31,000 year-old wild European wolves.

This indicates a dog in the very early stages of domestication, says evolutionary biologist Dr Susan Crockford, one of the authors on the study.

"The wolves were not deliberately domesticated, the process of making a wolf into a dog was a natural process," explained Dr Crockford of Pacific Identifications, Canada.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: agriculture; animalhusbandry; canada; dogs; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; siberia; susancrockford

The dog seems to have been in the early stages of domestication
1 posted on 08/03/2011 9:53:13 AM PDT by decimon
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To: SunkenCiv; Joe 6-pack

Deliberately domesticated ping.


2 posted on 08/03/2011 9:54:00 AM PDT by decimon
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; Shannon; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; ...
WOOOF!

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

3 posted on 08/03/2011 9:54:30 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: decimon

My conclusion also....absolutely.....and I didn’t even get paid the $100,000 a year theory fee...


4 posted on 08/03/2011 9:54:57 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau; decimon
The first time I read about how the Iroquois managed their dogs and deer herds I realized that the dog is little more than a mobile refrigerator for fresh meat.

On the other hand the dog, unlike just about any other animal, will naturally leap into its owner's arms if given the chance.

They don't need to be trained to do that.

Sure, they're social animals, and you can get them to sleep together in large piles if you want, but this business of leaping on people without aggressive purpose is kind of what you'd expect of FOOD, not a HUNTER.

So, you're hungry ~ time for stew ~ and you step outside the stockade, whistle for your dog (or one of the tribes dogs) and he comes running over, leaps up and you cut his throat ~ not even a sound of surprise.

That's gotta' been bred into 'em.

You get into a bad winter, the dogs are gone ~ and that's what looks liked happened to this dog.

5 posted on 08/03/2011 10:12:30 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
You get into a bad winter, the dogs are gone ~ and that's what looks liked happened to this dog.

Got Amundsen back from the South Pole.

6 posted on 08/03/2011 10:19:17 AM PDT by decimon
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To: cripplecreek

“Ancient Aliens”.

;D


7 posted on 08/03/2011 10:27:45 AM PDT by Salamander (Can't sleep...clowns will eat me.)
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To: muawiyah

Eating something that trusts and loves you seems like a betrayal, and nearly as loathsome as cannibalism. I hope I’m never that hungry.


8 posted on 08/03/2011 10:54:29 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: TexasRepublic
But the dogs would eat you if they didn't trust and love you.

They are clearly livestock.

9 posted on 08/03/2011 11:07:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: decimon

“This indicates a dog in the very early stages of domestication, says evolutionary biologist Dr Susan Crockford, one of the authors on the study.

“The wolves were not deliberately domesticated, the process of making a wolf into a dog was a natural process,” explained Dr Crockford of Pacific Identifications, Canada. “

Crockford is a crackpot. If this was a “natural process” it should be in process now wherever sloppy people live next to wolves, or there should have been records of it ocurring in the past.

It never happened in historical times for the simple fact that civilized people stopped domesticating wolves because they had already evolved out dogs from captured wolf cubs.


10 posted on 08/03/2011 11:16:57 AM PDT by ZULU (McConnell and Boehner are the Judas and Ephialtes of the 21st Century)
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To: decimon

Cujo


11 posted on 08/03/2011 11:28:36 AM PDT by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: ZULU

http://www.sibfox.com/ After about 8 generations fox offspring began to show doglike characteristics. Seems to be a natural thing with Carnivora. The European circus bears in Russia are not taken from the wild when young ~ they are the result of a similar practice of breeding “nice bears” for many generations.


12 posted on 08/03/2011 12:57:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Thanks for that link. Isaw a TV show about them recently.


13 posted on 08/03/2011 1:25:01 PM PDT by ZULU (McConnell and Boehner are the Judas and Ephialtes of the 21st Century)
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To: ZULU

We need to start some New Tame Foxes ourselves.


14 posted on 08/03/2011 1:28:29 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Foxes are neat. So are FOXES!!!!


15 posted on 08/03/2011 2:11:59 PM PDT by ZULU (McConnell and Boehner are the Judas and Ephialtes of the 21st Century)
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To: SunkenCiv

Click Florida

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Or sponsor New Monthly Donors
For a one-time contribution of just $10 each
FReepmail TheOldLady to be a sponsor

16 posted on 08/03/2011 2:41:30 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: decimon

Whoops! Thanks decimon!


17 posted on 08/03/2011 3:43:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: TheOldLady; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks TheOldLady.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


18 posted on 08/03/2011 3:43:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: decimon
Dogs - man's best friend for 30,000 years and counting.
19 posted on 08/03/2011 4:00:18 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: TexasRepublic

If TSHTF, the first people to get over the social taboos of eating PUPPIES! and KITTIES! and other cuddly critters will be more likely to survive than others— especially in urban terain.

For me, it won’t even take that much hunger; if I and mine have no meat, and the animal within rifle range is made of it, the animal is going DOWN. If it’s wearing a collar, oh well.


20 posted on 08/03/2011 6:48:35 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Freedom is saying "No!" to the Feds, and getting away with it. "Speak 'NO' to Power!")
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To: ExGeeEye
First off, sorry for Day Late comment. Just saw the PING I got

*** If TSHTF, the first people to get over the social taboos of eating PUPPIES! and KITTIES! and other cuddly critters will be more likely to survive than others— especially in urban terrain. ***

I see where you're coming from but think about that for a moment. Like what is the most common animal 'in urban terrain'?

It's not puppies or kitties. It's ......... Rats. And then Pigeons in downtown areas.

Plus it doesn't take long for domestic Cats or Dogs to go feral and return to their Pride and Pack hunting roots of survival. So by the time 'urban areas' ran out of Rat Stew or Rat Flambé, those cuddly animals would be on their guard against humans.(1)

And for the non urban areas I think we'd use the dogs as they were meant for when 1st domesticated, to help us hunt for food. Like a Pointer does when Bird Hunting. And the cats? I think we could use them to get the little birds and critters they're so good at getting right now. We'd just share the meal with them then.

Maybe I'm being too hopeful (or naive) to think that the educated among us would turn to eating our pets when there's other options first. And yes, I hold no hope for 'urban areas'. They're mostly feral now (google: Flash Mob Attacks).

(1) Way back when we had a Cat I happened to run into a 'pride' of 3 Cats that were dirty as heck and I just wanted to see if they were okay so I approached them. Too late, they were already Feral. The 'Boss Cat', a big Tom, was ready to attack. I slowly backed away.

ps: Thank you for your service. And I feel for your job situation. We have a friend who was an Army Lifer (E8, 1SGT) and had a heck of a time finding a meaningful (paying) job after he retired (27 yrs iirc). And his MOS was 18E.

21 posted on 08/04/2011 5:57:45 AM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits [A.Einstein])
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To: muawiyah

I remember the first time I read the fox article. It was quite interesting and made complete sense.


22 posted on 08/04/2011 10:34:56 AM PDT by brytlea (Someone the other day said I'm not a nice person. How did they know?)
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To: ExGeeEye

While I agree, I’d use my hunting dog as a resource to find game before I would eat her. She’s faster than me and she’s got a much better nose.


23 posted on 08/04/2011 10:37:18 AM PDT by brytlea (Someone the other day said I'm not a nice person. How did they know?)
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To: Condor51
Doggies, when they were first domesticated, might have been given a chance to help hunt but more likely they were used the same way the Iroquois used them ~ to eat meat, with themselves to be served later on in the winter.

The Iroquois grew vast fields of corn. They'd pull the ears off and prepare them for storage and later use ~ nothing out of the ordinary there.

Then, they'd let the deer in to eat the remaining ears, the downed ears, the stalks, and whatever else was in there ~ probably beans.

The deer would eat and eat and get fat.

Then the Iroquois would close their fences and bring on the village dogs. The Indians would kill deer for the dogs to supplement the deer the dogs themselves were killing.

The dogs would eat all the venison they could get (and you have to presume the Indians had already carved out haunches for smoke preservation the same as we might do a ham).

The dogs were then kept out of the village for the winter, but they'd stay nearby just in case someone had some garbage to toss them.

Eventually the smoked haunch would be eaten, the beans used up, and everything else would get in short supply and the Iroquois would begin letting a few dogs in for a special dinner!

They'll still leap unbidden up into the arms of a human they know. They were bred for food.

24 posted on 08/04/2011 10:44:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Condor51
I had forgotten about the rats. They are not, I think, as common in my local city as in others. But, yes, I personally would have no trouble with rats, squirrels, or any other fur-bearing species if things get tough.

Thanks also for the reminder to keep my propane torch nozzle in the vehicle-based Oh-Chit-Kit along with the Coleman stove and so on. (The rucksack-based Holy-Chit-Kit has no room for such luxuries and contains only the means to start fires, but not to maintain them.)

Note: a cat preparing to attack stands very still while doing the arch-and-hiss, or the pre-jump butt-wiggle (that cat-lovers such as I find endearing when playing with string). Therefore, a perfect target.

25 posted on 08/04/2011 2:26:27 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Freedom is saying "No!" to the Feds, and getting away with it. "Speak 'NO' to Power!")
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To: TexasRepublic; decimon; SunkenCiv
Eating something that trusts and loves you seems like a betrayal

In this story, Vic makes a rather different decision . . .

26 posted on 08/04/2011 3:23:28 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

LOL! I heard about the ending. I should check that out.


27 posted on 08/04/2011 3:46:33 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: TexasRepublic
If you ignore the heavy handed symbolism and politics I found it a fun cult movie. It would definitely by denounced by the feminazis these days!
28 posted on 08/04/2011 4:09:52 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

I found it on YouTube, believe it or not.


29 posted on 08/04/2011 4:47:22 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: colorado tanker

There are some dogs I would kill and eat in a hot second, but they’re not my dogs. :’)


30 posted on 08/04/2011 5:12:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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