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Columbus' Arrival Linked to Carbon Dioxide Drop
Science News ^ | November 5, 2011 | Devin Powell

Posted on 10/21/2011 11:02:39 AM PDT by MoJoWork_n

By sailing to the New World, Christopher Columbus and other explorers who followed him may have set off a chain of events that cooled Europe’s climate.

The European conquest of the Americas decimated the people living there, leaving large areas of cleared land untended. Trees that filled in this territory pulled billions of tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, Stanford University geochemist Richard Nevle reported October 11 at the Geological Society of America annual meeting. Such carbon dioxide removal could have diminished the heat-trapping capacity of the atmosphere and cooled the climate, Nevil and his colleagues have previously reported.

“We have a massive reforestation event that’s sequestering carbon … coincident with the European arrival,” said Nevle.

Tying together many different lines of evidence, Nevle estimated how much carbon all those new trees would have consumed. He says it was enough to account for most or all of the sudden drop in atmospheric carbon dioxide recorded in Antarctic ice during the 16th and 17th centuries. Such a depletion of a key greenhouse gas may have helped augment Europe’s so-called Little Ice Age, centuries of cooler temperatures that followed the Middle Ages, Nevle's team has argued.

By the end of the 15th century, between 40 million and 100 million people are thought to have been living in the Americas.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencenews.org ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; columbus; godsgravesglyphs
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The "Little Ice Age," however it came to be, also explains why most Americans drink beer, instead of wine, as their great-great-great-great... grandparents did.
1 posted on 10/21/2011 11:02:54 AM PDT by MoJoWork_n
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To: MoJoWork_n

Scientifically illiterate. CO2 conc. FOLLOWS temperature changes. Doesn’t drive them.


2 posted on 10/21/2011 11:04:28 AM PDT by DManA
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To: MoJoWork_n
This is not science. What has happened to our country?
3 posted on 10/21/2011 11:07:20 AM PDT by chopperman
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To: MoJoWork_n

Is there any evil that can’t be traced back to white men?


4 posted on 10/21/2011 11:08:26 AM PDT by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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Please bump the FReepathon thread
Support FR today!

5 posted on 10/21/2011 11:08:43 AM PDT by Darksheare (You will never defeat Bok Choy!)
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To: MoJoWork_n
Science News

What kind of rag publishes this Marxist twaddle ??

6 posted on 10/21/2011 11:10:07 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: MoJoWork_n

What a pantload.


7 posted on 10/21/2011 11:11:26 AM PDT by headstamp 2 (Time to move forward not to the center.)
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To: MoJoWork_n
These scientists need to stop eating pizza just before going to bed. Nightmares tend to stay with a person for a while.
8 posted on 10/21/2011 11:12:09 AM PDT by mtg
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To: MoJoWork_n

Oh... I thought it was the plot to a science fiction book.


9 posted on 10/21/2011 11:12:13 AM PDT by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: MoJoWork_n

The “science” in that article was so abysmal that the author(s) qualify for a primary position on the Obamaloon Clown Show of Cretin/Felons.

Gads, would I have loved to had them in a good numerical analysis course - so they could receive their well deserved Fs and then proceed to get a marshmallow major and become congresscritters. If they got Ds in those worthless majors, they could also become vice-president.


10 posted on 10/21/2011 11:16:37 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: DManA

So there was no possible cause and effect between the Permian extinction event, and rising CO2 levels, from the methane that had erupted from the bottom of the sea?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/08/030828071722.htm


11 posted on 10/21/2011 11:17:43 AM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: Da Coyote

Earth to lib arts majors, yup, it’s “have had,’ not “had”.

So sue me.

Heh.


12 posted on 10/21/2011 11:17:58 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: MoJoWork_n

“The European conquest of the Americas decimated the people living there,”

Exactly what “decimation” occurred? A few thousand Indians? Did the Indians have corporate farms stretching across the entire country? Did virtually every new arrival from Europe not farm the land after clearing large tracts for said purpose?

The logic of this hypothesis is ridiculous.


13 posted on 10/21/2011 11:18:05 AM PDT by headstamp 2 (Time to move forward not to the center.)
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To: MoJoWork_n

Orders of magnitude higher CO2 than what the “researchers” were discussing.


14 posted on 10/21/2011 11:23:24 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Completely illiterate.

Maybe one result of this whole AGW farce will be to identify for future inclusion or exclusion from serious consideration two classes of "scientists", those who are legitimate and thus willing and able to look at the actual empirical evidence and those who are no more scientists than the Vatican jury who placed Galileo under house arrest. Same applies to the "scientific" authors and their publications, or in this case propaganda organs.

It is startling, though, to see the death grip this theory has on so many people who should know better, and disgusting since their fanatic loyalty is so clearly tied to the almighty coin.

15 posted on 10/21/2011 11:23:32 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: MoJoWork_n

I am awed. Who know Columbus was so powerful! Wow!


16 posted on 10/21/2011 11:23:45 AM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: MoJoWork_n

Little known fact: Columbus never set foot in America. He made it to Haiti and the Bahamas and that’s it. John Cabot was an Italian explorer who landed in what is now known as North America with a commission on behalf of England. We, at the time not wanting to give Britain credit for anything, decided to rally around the Spaniard, Columbus. The only reason it’s not Washington DC (District of Caboto, rather than Columbia) is simply, petty spite. Columbus went on to commit a genocide on the Native Americans that would’ve made Hitler blush.

/flamewar suit on


17 posted on 10/21/2011 11:25:15 AM PDT by Osamabindead
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To: headstamp 2

According to the article:

“......By the end of the 15th century, between 40 million and 100 million people are thought to have been living in the Americas. Many of them burned trees to make room for crops, leaving behind charcoal deposits that have been found in the soils of Mexico, Nicaragua and other countries.

About 500 years ago, this charcoal accumulation plummeted as the people themselves disappeared. Smallpox, diphtheria and other diseases from Europe ultimately wiped out as much as 90 percent of the indigenous population.

Trees returned, reforesting an area at least the size of California, Nevle estimated. This new growth could have soaked up between 2 billion and 17 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide from the air.

Ice cores from Antarctica contain air bubbles that show a drop in carbon dioxide around this time. These bubbles suggest that levels of the greenhouse gas decreased by 6 to 10 parts per million between 1525 and the early 1600s.....”


18 posted on 10/21/2011 11:26:28 AM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: DManA

—Scientifically illiterate. CO2 conc. FOLLOWS temperature changes. Doesn’t drive them.—

This article is even worse than that. It was posted a few days ago. The claims made in the article are ludicrous. It isn’t science. Not the least bit.


19 posted on 10/21/2011 11:26:34 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Tzimisce; MoJoWork_n
The Leftist AGW activist know that one of the biggest threats to their theory is the Maunder Minimum correlation with the Little Ice Age so they had to come up with a theory to explain the Little Ice Age that fit their AGW “Science”.

What better fit to their hate the West ideology than the White men killing the Red men causes a global catastrophe.

20 posted on 10/21/2011 11:31:20 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: MoJoWork_n
I wasn't aware that Columbus cut down any trees let alone that many. The Pilgrims found cleared land that was form a plague that killed the natives in the are where they settled so they are not the ones that cut all the forests down. The land was not completely cleared in the 1800’s for the farmers in the Midwest. There are more trees in the Rockies than there were when Columbus came over. How can a “scientist” get so many things wrong?
21 posted on 10/21/2011 11:31:42 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: MoJoWork_n
The European conquest of the Americas decimated the people living there, leaving large areas of cleared land untended. Trees that filled in this territory pulled billions of tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere,

Yeah, except few Native Americans had agriculture and most were hunter-gatherers.

22 posted on 10/21/2011 11:32:25 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo
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To: Tzimisce

another guilt trip . . . and I just got back from one . . . what ever the libs speak, it’s taken as gospel truth . . .


23 posted on 10/21/2011 11:34:51 AM PDT by Twinkie (John 3:16)
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To: MoJoWork_n

So..when do reparations to Europe begin? /sarcasm


24 posted on 10/21/2011 11:36:29 AM PDT by penelopesire (TIME FOR A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR!)
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To: SuzyQue

This guy reminds me of Professor Irwin Corey! Makes the same kinda sense.


25 posted on 10/21/2011 11:41:12 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Oh, that’s right. So the corn tortilla that came down to us from the Aztecs was originally made from tree bark.

Same thing they made their canoes from.

The building material for any number of souvenir items in the casino gift shops. Great to know they’re edible, after we’re done using them as ash trays, or bathroom potpourri holders.


26 posted on 10/21/2011 12:18:47 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: mountainlion

No, you got the point of the article wrong.

It was *more* trees that sucked more CO2 out of the atmosphere, that the people advancing this theory say could be linked to the decreased CO2 in the ice in Antarctica, that suggests the drop in temperatures during the Little Ice Age may have had a human origin.

Columbus didn’t cut down NO trees.


27 posted on 10/21/2011 12:22:26 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: DManA

You’re the one that suggested it should have been the other way around, whatever the origin of the increased CO2 levels.

It would have to have been ‘orders of magnitude’ less, though, wouldn’t it, since there was no mass extinction event as happened after the Permian era?


28 posted on 10/21/2011 12:25:23 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: DManA

You’re the one that suggested it should have been the other way around, whatever the origin of the increased CO2 levels.

It would have had to have been ‘orders of magnitude’ less, though, wouldn’t it, since there was no mass extinction event as happened after the Permian era?


29 posted on 10/21/2011 12:27:10 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: MoJoWork_n

It is like in a discussion about the health benefits of drinking water you bring up the case of a guy who died from drinking gallons.


30 posted on 10/21/2011 12:31:22 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MoJoWork_n

“Tying together many different lines of evidence......”

The flight patterns of birds, entrails of sheep, tossing pieces of bone. It all comes together in “CO2 (is bad) Theory”.


31 posted on 10/21/2011 12:34:36 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Tzimisce

I don’t know.

Mayonnaise was invented in France. (Yuck.)

3-Bean Salad was first thrown together in the U.S. (Double Yuck.)

But so was the first pizza.

Go figure.

There are probably no hard and fast rules about that.


32 posted on 10/21/2011 12:35:06 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: MoJoWork_n

You mean the Cahokian cultural demise which included vast swaths of denuded, untended, abandoned agricultural land wasn’t a problem, but a bunch of colonists were?

Oh yes, those evil whites!


33 posted on 10/21/2011 12:41:47 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: Osamabindead

The coutries colonized by Great Britain should thank God
it was that country and not Spain or France or Portugal.


34 posted on 10/21/2011 12:46:58 PM PDT by RitchieAprile (Yeaaahh yeaaahh we baaad...)
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To: OpusatFR

The Cahokian folks may have just run out of logs to burn.

But that was only a century or so before Columbus, so the trees that grew back after the collapse of that culture would have added to the ‘too much CO2’ problem, a little earlier on but more or less compounding the same ‘too many trees, not enough Native Americans’ issue.


35 posted on 10/21/2011 12:55:19 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: headstamp 2
Actually, the logic seems sound. Remember that CO2 concentrations have been bumping along the minimum for the last 10k years or so and any decrease could have had an impact on temps. Note also that, above minimum levels, added CO2 makes little difference in temps.

My main point is that by "cleared" the author means 'burned to the ground' as in forest and brush fires. Not only was there no fire suppression at that time, but the natives actually cleared land by fire and also used fire to push herds of buffalo off cliffs or into rivers.

36 posted on 10/21/2011 12:58:39 PM PDT by Cruising Speed
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To: SuzyQue

No, he wasn’t that powerful, but the gasoline powered chain saws that he used to completely deforest both hemisphers were.


37 posted on 10/21/2011 1:15:23 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: count-your-change

What they’re saying there is that *right along with* the re-forestation and (possible) increased CO2 levels, there may also have been “....a decrease in solar activity, an increase in volcanic activity or colder oceans capable of absorbing more carbon dioxide.....” All of which would be completely unrelated to the disappearing Native Americans suspected root cause.

...Actually, I don’t know that a few parts per million of CO2 are necessarily such a horrible thing (6 to 10 parts per million, to be precise), but what seems to have gotten everyone so wound up — besides the drop in average temperature of a few degrees — is the suggestion that there were many, many, many people (anywhere between 40 and 100 million of them) whose relatively sudden disappearance may have affected the the climate of the whole planet.


38 posted on 10/21/2011 1:19:14 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

I had to look the good doctor up. I had never heard of him.


39 posted on 10/21/2011 1:27:35 PM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: DManA

“A discussion about the health benefits of drinking water...?”

Huh? I thought it was a discussion about what might have caused the temperature drop of the ‘Little Ice Age.’


40 posted on 10/21/2011 1:38:44 PM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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To: MoJoWork_n
The idea that 40 to 100 million people were living in North America seems rather ludicrous considering the population of the U.S. was less than 100 million in 1910.
But postulating some outlandish number must somehow satisfy the PC view of the natives being being happy and numerous until the evil white men came.

Bring back the Italian guy pretending to an Indian, he was good for a laugh.

41 posted on 10/21/2011 2:55:59 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Tzimisce

HA! When the first Italians arrived here, they were considered, and called, niggers by some Irish.


42 posted on 10/21/2011 3:29:35 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: MoJoWork_n
No, you got the point of the article wrong.

You are right. I would think that it would take the killing of millions of Native Americans to cause such a reforestation and the colonists made great efforts to clear land themselves. I am confused.

43 posted on 10/21/2011 3:47:10 PM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: MoJoWork_n

Since science has been recording atmospheric CO2 and temperature, changes in CO2 lag behind changes in temperature. Reconstructed CO2 and temperature record going back thousands of years show the same pattern. A few handfuls of catastrophic events in the past billion years have seen CO2 concentrations surging so fast that it overwhelmed the systems that maintain a relatively stable climate. These rare exceptions tell us that the moderating systems can be overwhelmed but so what?

Changes in CO2 lag changes in temperature except when extremely rare catastrophic events release overwhelming amounts of CO2. Drinking water is healthy except in extremely rare cases where people drink overwhelming amounts. My analogy is brilliant.


44 posted on 10/21/2011 3:51:47 PM PDT by DManA
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To: count-your-change
"40 to 100 million"

There are absolutely no societies built on hunting/gathering, as most of the North American Indian tribes were, that can generate enough food to support forty million or more people. North of the Rio Grande the Indian population probably was in the area of two to five million at most. In central America the Aztecs had cities and the populations there were probably a lot larger. But nowhere near forty million. Leftist historians (or hysterians) at work again.

45 posted on 10/21/2011 4:15:39 PM PDT by driftless2
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Thanks MoJoWork_n.


46 posted on 10/21/2011 4:23:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks MoJoWork_n. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


47 posted on 10/21/2011 4:23:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: driftless2

There is evidence that South America was extensively farmed. An early Spanish explorer who went from the Andes to the Atlantic down the Amazon reported seeing large cities. No one believed him. New evidence seems to show he wasn’t lying.


48 posted on 10/21/2011 7:33:28 PM PDT by DManA
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To: MoJoWork_n
methane eruptions are rare and big ones like that is even more so. The CO2 lag is when under normal weather patterns Oceans can absorb more CO2 when they are cold then when the oceans are warm.

But Methane eruptions should not be ignored just because they are rare. They are extremely dangerous and should be looked into much more then the man made global warming hoax

49 posted on 10/23/2011 12:29:13 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: DManA

Where does that data, and those conclusions come from?

(I mean, sez who?)


50 posted on 10/24/2011 6:38:52 AM PDT by MoJoWork_n (We don't know what it is we don't know)
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