Skip to comments.Watery secret of the dinosaur death pose (Simplest explanation of Dino extinction: They drowned)
Posted on 11/26/2011 6:26:37 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Recreating the spectacular pose many dinosaurs adopted in death might involve following the simplest of instructions: just add water.
When palaeontologists are lucky enough to find a complete dinosaur skeleton whether it be a tiny Sinosauropteryx or an enormous Apatosaurus there's a good chance it will be found with its head thrown backwards and its tail arched upwards technically known as the opisthotonic death pose. No one is entirely sure why this posture is so common, but Alicia Cutler and colleagues from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, think it all comes down to a dip in the wet stuff.
Cutler placed plucked chickens both fresh and frozen on a bed of sand for three months to see if desiccation would lead to muscle contractions that pulled the neck upwards a previously suggested explanation for the death pose. The chickens decayed without contorting. When seven other chickens were placed into cool, fresh water, however, their necks arched and their heads were thrown back within seconds. Sustained immersion of the birds for up to a month slightly increased the severity of the pose, but the major movement of the head occurred almost immediately.
The result contrasts with a study carried out in 2007 by Cynthia Marshall Faux at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana, and Kevin Padian at the University of California in Berkeley. The pair found that salty water did not alter the pose of dead quails. They concluded that the arched back seen in so many fossils was instead the result of the expiring dinosaur's final death throes (Paleobiology, DOI: 10.1666/06015.1) an idea that was first suggested by pathologist Roy Moodie in 1918.
Why dunking dead birds in water produced different results in the two studies is not clear.
(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...
1. Lindgren J , Everhart MJ , Caldwell MW , 2011 Three-Dimensionally Preserved Integument Reveals Hydrodynamic Adaptations in the Extinct Marine Lizard Ectenosaurus (Reptilia, Mosasauridae). PLoS ONE 6(11): e27343. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0027343.
Now why on earth would so many extinct animals die in some sort of freak drowning event???
Noah would be so pleased.
That makes sense regarding the preservation. The specimens who just die on the ground are bound to be torn up by scavengers. But being caught in a flash flood could kill and quickly bury it.
Flash floods aren’t ‘freak’. They happen all the time in some areas.
The water explanation certainly comports more with the biblical account of how things were before the (re)creation (Genesis 1:2).
It does. Neato.
interesting but probably way too simple.... could have been true for some parts though
...there's a good chance it will be found with its head thrown backwards and its tail arched upwards -- technically known as the opisthotonic death pose... Alicia Cutler and colleagues... placed plucked chickens -- both fresh and frozen... into cool, fresh water... their necks arched and their heads were thrown back within seconds... The result contrasts with a study carried out in 2007 by Cynthia Marshall Faux at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, Montana, and Kevin Padian at the University of California in Berkeley. The pair found that salty water did not alter the pose of dead quails.Sometimes I just like to poke the bear. :')
In The Beginning: The Origin of the OceansThe common salt is a substantial ingredient of the oceanic content, or, said differently, the water of the oceans and seas contains a substantial solution of NaCl, or sodium chloride. Even though our blood and tissues abound in sodium chloride, man and animals are not adapted to drink salty water, and life on land could develop only thanks to the evaporation of the water from the surface of seas and oceans, or to distillation -- the evaporating water is free from salts. Falling as rain or snow or dew, it feeds underground sources and also glaciers, and through them the brooks and rivers and lakes, and is delivered to our use usually through concrete tubes and metal pipes.
by Immanuel Velikovsky
Of the salts of the seas sodium chloride is by far the most abundant. The provenance of it is, however, a riddle. It was, and still is, assumed that the salts in the oceans originated mainly through importation from land, having been dissolved from rocks by flowing rivulets and rivers, themselves fed by underground sources, and the same process working on the rocks of the seabed. Terrestrial formations are rich in sodium, and in eons of time, it is assumed, the sodium washed out of the rocks supplied its content to the oceans; the seas evaporate and the concentration of these salts grows. But the rocks are by far not so rich in chlorine, and hence the problem -- from where did chlorine come to contribute its abundance to oceanic water? There is chlorine in source water, but usually not in significant amounts. The proportion of salts in the rivers is very different from their proportion in the seas. River water has many carbonates (80 percent of the salts), fewer sulphates (13 percent) and still fewer chlorides (7 percent). Sea water has many chlorides (89 percent), fewer sulphates (10 percent) and only a few carbonates (0.2 percent). The comparison of these figures makes it clear that rivers cannot be made responsible for most of the salts of the seas. Therefore it is also obvious that there is no proper way of calculating the age of the Earth by comparing the amount of salts in the seas with the annual discharge by the rivers; the most that can be done in this respect is to calculate the rich amount of carbonates in the rivers in their relation to the relatively poor concentration to these salts in the seas; but then there will be no explanation for the rich concentration of chlorides in the seas in comparison with their poor concentration in the rivers.
A part of the salts could be traced to the washing of lands and the floor of the seas; chlorine is known also to be discharged by volcanoes, but to account for the chlorine locked in the seas, volcanic eruptions, whether on land or under the surface of the seas, needed to have taken place on an unimaginable scale -- actually, it was figured out, on an impossible scale. Thus it was acknowledged that the provenance of chlorine in the salts of the seas is a problem unsolved.
Paleontological research makes it rather apparent that marine animals in some early age were more closely related to fresh-water fauna; in other words, the salinity of the oceans increased markedly at some age in the past.
|GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach|
True science is great and fascinating and is the friend of Biblical truth.
Thanks GeronL! I didn’t see your ping ‘til now.
As I say to my boys all the time....the goal of science is not to DISPROVE God, but that He exists. ;-)
Many dinosaurs traveled in herds and crossed streams and rivers. If at flood stage, some animals would drown and be buried in silt. These would be the specimens most likely to be preserved as fossils. Multiply by millions of dinosaurs times the 165 million years dinosaurs existed as a dominant group on earth and that would pretty much explain why many of the fossils are found in that position.
Really, there are not that many dinosaur fossils found for the huge number that existed and for the length of time they dominated the earth.
The fossil record of the trilobite (Wisconsin’s state fossil) makes very interesting reading. Uncountable numbers of them are preserved, whole and undamaged, in some sites their chitinous exoskeletons preserved (not mineralized), obviously mass burials as by a major flood.
Thanks again. :’)
Earth In Upheaval: The Aquatic Graveyards
An identical picture can be found in many other places all around the world, in similar and dissimilar formations. Of Monte Bolca, near Verona in northern Italy, Buckland wrote: “The circumstances under which the fossil fishes are found at Monte Bolca seem to indicate that they perished suddenly. . . . The skeletons of these fish lie parallel to the laminae of the strata of the calcareous slate; they are always entire, and closely packed on one another. . . . All these fishes must have died suddenly . . . and have been speedily buried in the calcareous sediment then in the course of deposition. From the fact that certain individuals have even preserved traces of colour upon their skin, we are certain that they were entombed before decomposition of their soft parts had taken place.”
The same author wrote about the fish deposits in the area of the Harz Mountains in Germany: “Another celebrated deposit of fossil fishes is that of the cupriferous slate surrounding the Harz. Many of the fishes of this slate at Mansfeld, Eisleben, etc., have a distorted attitude, which has often been assigned to writhing in the agonies of death. ... As these fossil fishes maintain the attitude of the rigid stage immediately succeeding death, it follows that they were buried before putrefaction had commenced, and apparently in the same bituminous mud, the influx of which had caused their destruction.”
The slory of agony and sudden death and immediate encasing is told by the red sandstone of Scotland; the limestone of Monte Bolca in Lombardy; the bituminous slate of Mansfeld in Thuringia; and also by the coal formation of Saarbrucken on the Saar, “the most celebrated deposits of fossil fishes in Europe”; the calcareous slate of Solenhofen; the blue slate of Glarus; the marlstone of Oensingen in Switzerland and of Aix-in -Provence, to mention only a few of the better-known sites in Europe.
In North America similar strata, “packed full of splendidly preserved fishes,” are found in the black limestone of Ohio and Michigan, in the Green River bed of Arizona, the diatom beds of Lompoc, California, and in many other formations.
In cataclysms of early ages fishes died in agony; and the sand and the gravel of the upthrust sea bottom covered the aquatic graveyards.
But suppose they were around for only a couple of thousand years?!?!?
A whole 7 minutes!
Thats like from the days of the dinosaurs. lol
>>Now why on earth would so many extinct animals die in some sort of freak drowning event???<<
Clearly they didn’t wait at least an hour after eating...
How many of each animal was on the ark? Where is the T-Rex of today?
As a Catholic priest, you might like to get into contact with Father Guiseppe Leonardi. His family have been scientists since the 15th century and the family home has the skeleton of a dwarf elephant on the third floor. That fossil is a million years old. He is a specialist in dinosaur tracks, and while studying for the clergy at Rome University, pursued a Ph.D. in paleontology.
Priest to priest, he may be able to better explain the geological study of stratigraphy in terms you could understand, and how it would be nigh impossible for fossils found on mountaintops to exist there after only two thousand years.
Noah didn’t have enough room for all the meat animals to feed a T-Rex. ;-)
OTH I read an article about the almost universal prevalence of flood "mythology". Any clue?
I find the following Bible passage touching because God Himself speaks so humbly:
"And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." (Genesis 9:12-16)
Is it not humbling to read the Lord Himself say, " . . . that I may remember . . . ". It that not redolent of what Jesus, the Christ, said, "This do in remembrance of me . . . ".
Kennedysorus was driving ?
Maybe a flood?
Thats because there was a great flood... :)
Yep. Probably a bit of the lemming-syndrome, too.
If this had anything to do with the flood, I wonder why Noah didn’t have any dinosaurs on board?
Trilobites were around for some 300 million years, declining slowly through the Devonian and with the final order disappearing in the Permian extinction. Some tie their decline with jawed and semi jawed fish able to crush their protection. The last order liked shallow water. We still have their relation, the horseshoe crab.
No one thing or time period can be said to have caused their extinction, rather it was likely many things over may millions of years. Scorpions, jellyfish, sea pens, corals, sponges, etc. all have survived from the time their ancestors lived alongside the trilobites.
So are you saying that normally BYU doesn’t support the Bible, I can agree with that.
Actually, Rip is trying to slide an oblique insult about Jim Robinson into the mix. Saundra Duffy and restornu do it, too.
That’s 420 seconds, practically forever.
Gee, why don’t you ping him? You guys usually do when we complain that this is becoming more and more an anti Mormon site.
Obviously the intact specimnens had to have died in the flood waters, or else their bodies would have been ravaged by predators.
This had nothing to do with extinction; they were still alive in the middle ages in sufficient numbers to have a huge representation in the written historical record.
I have zero respect for you as you insult the man who owns this conservative website. So I don’t bother pinging someone I have zero respect for. You can now freepmail Saundra and restornu and let them know, also. ... There now, got your victimhood fix this evening?
>> “Now why on earth would so many extinct animals die in some sort of freak drowning event???” <<
The aquatic trials for the Dino-Olympics?
You aren’t worth bothering Jim over, got it?
“Actually, Rip is trying to slide an oblique insult about Jim Robinson into the mix. Saundra Duffy and restornu do it, too.”
Here’s 2, not exactly oblique though:
CNN: Conservative group to target Romney
Sunday, October 09, 2011 4:57:15 PM · 169 of 175
Zevonismymuse to Jim Robinson
J.R.-I will absolutely not support or vote for Mitt Romney and, in fact, will actively campaign against him.
Z.-You mean you will continue to actively campaign against him. You don’t hate RINOs; you hate Mormons.
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With Sarah out, which conservative candidate has the best shot of knocking out Romney and Obama?
Wednesday, October 05, 2011 7:49:47 PM · 169 of 436
Zevonismymuse to Jim Robinson
Z-Romney is the most conservative candidate in the race. He will win the nomination and go on to win the General Election.
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>> “Flash floods arent freak. They happen all the time in some areas.” <<
And the dinos hear about the floods on their weather radios, and come out for a swim?
Than why on earth did you bring him up?!!
And you don’t need to bother answering me either as I’m not worth it.
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