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Scottish people's DNA study could 'rewrite nation's history'
The Guardian (UK) ^ | 8-14-2012 | Charlotte Higgins

Posted on 08/22/2012 7:05:20 AM PDT by Renfield

Evidence of African, Arabian, south-east Asian and Siberian ancestry in Scotland, says author of book tracing genetic journey

A large scale study of Scottish people's DNA is threatening to "rewrite the nation's history", according to author Alistair Moffat.

Scotland, he told the Edinburgh international book festival, despite a long-held belief that its ethnic make-up was largely Scots, Celtic, Viking and Irish, was in fact "one of the most diverse nations on earth".

"The explanation is simple. We are a people on the edge of beyond; on the end of a massive continent. Peoples were migrating northwest; and they couldn't get any further. We have collected them."....

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: dna; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; scotland; scotlandyet
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Until recently, he said, it had been believed that farming arrived incrementally in Scotland, around 3,000 years ago, by a process of slow and gradual adoption, by women, of new techniques. But their recent DNA research suggests something quite different, he said: that it arrived quickly via young male immigrants from what is now Germany.

These young men, he said, brought brand-new techniques with them, planting grass-derived crops that could be turned into porridge and fed to young children. This new improved food production reduced the period, argued Moffat, that the hunter-gatherer mothers had to devote to breast-feeding, and thus increased their fertility. This led to a population explosion, he said, laying the seeds of a recognisable society in northern Britain. "It is a revelation. Porridge, and I'm not joking about this, is absolutely crucial to our history."

1 posted on 08/22/2012 7:05:30 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 08/22/2012 7:06:16 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield
Is this science or a multi-culti fantasy?

Probably science under a big media veneer of multi-culti spin.

3 posted on 08/22/2012 7:17:55 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Peoples were migrating northwest; and they couldn't get any further. We have collected them." = "We are proud to be genetic thrift store of Europe!"
4 posted on 08/22/2012 7:23:21 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BenLurkin

Mutts are the healthiest and be nicest creatures.


5 posted on 08/22/2012 7:25:04 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

I’m willing to credit DNA analysis as accurate unless you have something more credible to offer.


6 posted on 08/22/2012 7:25:58 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: Renfield

dogear


7 posted on 08/22/2012 7:27:03 AM PDT by Dysart (Obama Faults Profit. Reject That.)
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To: Renfield
Maybe Idi Amin Dada was right after all


8 posted on 08/22/2012 7:28:01 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: muir_redwoods

Let’s go with my second sentence.


9 posted on 08/22/2012 7:29:30 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Renfield

WHAT INSANE HERESEY IS THIS???? Everyone, simply EVERYONE, knows it was women sitting around in their menses huts, shooing flies, who conceived of the idea of planting food and staying in one place and creating shopping centers. Men just did their bidding./s


10 posted on 08/22/2012 7:30:55 AM PDT by Adder (Da bro has GOT to go!)
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To: Renfield

Story says 1% has Berber ancestry and the African comes from the 18th century slave trade......and Moffat, a Borderer’s name is English......shocking!

Still overwhelmingly Pict, Celt, and Norse with a leavening of English usurpers it seems.

Wow. What a non news event. This is diversity in uniformity from the looks of it.


11 posted on 08/22/2012 7:33:07 AM PDT by Lowell1775
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To: Renfield

Newsvendor’s Voice: Read all about it! Read all about it! Man turns into Scotsman!

(Mix through to Potter’s front gate. His with is being interviewed by obvious plainclothes man.)

Inspector: Mrs Potter - you knew Harold Potter quite well I believe?

Wife: Oh yes quite well.

Inspector: Yes.

Wife: He was my husband.

Inspector: Yes. And, er, he never showed any inclination towards being a Scotsman before this happened?

Wife: (shocked) No, no, not at all. He was not that sort of person...

Inspector: He didn’t wear a kilt or play the bagpipes?

Wife: No, no.

Inspector: He never got drunk at night or bought home black puddings?

Wife: No, no. Not at all.

Inspector: He didn’t have an inadequate brain capacity?

Wife: No, no, not at all.

Inspector: I see. So by your account Harold Potter was a perfectly ordinary Englishman without any tendency towards being a Scotsman whatsoever?

Wife: Absolutely, yes. (suddenly remembering) Mind you he did always watch Dr Finlay on television.

Inspector: Ah-hah! ... Well that’s it, you see. That’s how it starts.

Wife: I beg your pardon?

Inspector: Well you see Scottishness staffs with little things like that, and works up. You see, people don’t just turn into a Scotsman for no reason at all... (goes rigid with Scots accent.) No further questions!


12 posted on 08/22/2012 7:34:52 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: BenLurkin

Grease trap theory in operation

Unfortunately we have have equivalent areas that function
same way: Florida, Texas, California

All the nuts go there and not being able to move any farther
are stuck......


13 posted on 08/22/2012 7:34:59 AM PDT by njslim (St)
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To: muir_redwoods

That’s only 3,000 years ago ~ whata about way back when ~ there’s cut stone in Scotland MUCH OLDER THAN THAT.


14 posted on 08/22/2012 7:38:22 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DManA

I’m not seeing something I’d call a veneer. Can you elaborate?


15 posted on 08/22/2012 7:43:23 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: muawiyah

There are some hints that humans had it going on right before the ice age ended. If I had a time machine I’d head right for 12,000 BC.


16 posted on 08/22/2012 7:44:01 AM PDT by DManA
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To: BenLurkin
It has also been posited that the origin of Celtic or Proto Celtic cultures could have come from as far east as the Indus valley . One researcher that I can recall noticed structural similarities between some Celtic and Indian Musical forms. One thing is a fact: the Celts got around. At the time of Christ, Celtic communities streched from modern day Turkey (Galatia), to modern day France and Switzerland (Gallia Cisalpina) to Spain (Galicia)to Ireland (Eire). With that kind of travel history i wouldn't be suprised if the Celts came from that far away.

CC

17 posted on 08/22/2012 7:44:45 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Q: how did you find America? A: turn left at Greenland)
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To: muir_redwoods

Post #11 sums it up pretty well.


18 posted on 08/22/2012 7:46:51 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Celtic Conservative

Found Celts in western China (Sianking) - even today some
of the usually Mongolian populations show umistakable
Cacausian features.....


19 posted on 08/22/2012 7:50:55 AM PDT by njslim (St)
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To: dfwgator
that was the very first episode I ever saw of that show, ending with Angus Podgorny playing in the Wimbledon finals against a blancmange. I was hooked for life from that moment on, even though I had no idea at the age of 11 what a blancmange even was.

On a side note, everyone knows we Scots are part neanderthals, onnaccountof our red hair!
20 posted on 08/22/2012 7:53:13 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: blam

DNA...Scotland...ping


21 posted on 08/22/2012 7:54:44 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum)
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To: Celtic Conservative

“One researcher that I can recall noticed structural similarities between some Celtic and Indian Musical forms.”

Well, the bagpipes didn’t come from Europe, that is for sure. They originated in the Middle East.


22 posted on 08/22/2012 7:57:32 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Renfield
Evidence of African, Arabian, south-east Asian and Siberian ancestry in Scotland,

Hmmmmm .....


23 posted on 08/22/2012 7:57:47 AM PDT by Malone LaVeigh
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To: DManA
Is this science or a multi-culti fantasy? Probably science under a big media veneer of multi-culti spin.

There were lots of waves of migration into the British Isles. I would guess the Romans brought in a diverse set of genes, both with their armies, and the various traders from various places who followed them.

24 posted on 08/22/2012 7:59:30 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (A deep-fried storm is coming, Mr Obama.)
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To: DManA

DNA is Okay, But they weren’t multi-cultural at least prior to 100 years ago. Anyone else from around the world that settled there Assimilated into the scottish culture becasue they HAD to because scottish culture gave them the tools to survive in scotland. The same way european immigrants moved into American and assimilated into the Newly formed English/American culture within a generation or two.


25 posted on 08/22/2012 8:06:21 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Renfield
Too funny !

"Not every analysis of DNA has delivered welcome results. DNA analysis on Moffat himself – a proud Scottish Borders man – showed that his ancestry was English. "We don't offer counselling for that," he said."
26 posted on 08/22/2012 8:08:44 AM PDT by stylin19a (Obama -> Ransom "Rance" Stoddard)
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To: njslim
I've seen pictures, Mongolians with curly red hair and freckles! What a hoot!

CC

27 posted on 08/22/2012 8:08:49 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Q: how did you find America? A: turn left at Greenland)
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To: GraceG

Good point.


28 posted on 08/22/2012 8:09:32 AM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Mutts are the healthiest and be nicest creatures.

I'm a mutt, my kids are mutts, my dogs are mutts, and damn-good looking, if I may say.

Bill Murray said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ-ru03J2OQ

29 posted on 08/22/2012 8:10:19 AM PDT by tsomer
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To: PapaBear3625

well according to some experts raping and pillaging won’t produce offspring...the woman’s body shuts down...


30 posted on 08/22/2012 8:15:10 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Celtic Conservative

There is no doubt ancient people really got around:

http://www.meshrep.com/PicOfDay/mummies/mummies.htm


31 posted on 08/22/2012 8:21:00 AM PDT by DManA
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To: rolling_stone

Geez, thanks ... Beat me to it. Yes, all the genetic diversity is ONLY from consensual sex. Or women who enjoyed being raped ...


32 posted on 08/22/2012 8:22:21 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Renfield

If it’s not Scottish it’s CRAP!


33 posted on 08/22/2012 8:24:16 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Renfield

The MSM loves a story that suggests those of European ancestry are not a pure race, as if any half informed person ever thought they were. This story is more about the MSM’s PC-ness and the guilt-ridden, self-loathing white folks who make up most of it.


34 posted on 08/22/2012 8:27:40 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Lowell1775; DManA

Finding a bit of really extraneous DNA is not ethnically significant perhaps but it does tell a cool story about human travel and interaction. I’ve often felt it must be risky living ones life as a racist since none of us can vouch for the morals of our great-great-great grandmothers.

I’m told I am of Scottish and Irish descent but my folks were of a generation more concerned with their descendants than their ancestors so who knows. To find out I am a wee bit Berber or African or Asian is pretty cool.


35 posted on 08/22/2012 8:27:46 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: tsomer

LOL, a bit ambiguous but I’m going to assume you are bragging about your good looking dogs AND kids.


36 posted on 08/22/2012 8:32:44 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Renfield

This has been known for years. The Roman legions that built Hadrian’s Wall were from all over the Empire, including North Africa. There’s no way a legion of soldiers goes anywhere without leaving some Y-DNA behind.


37 posted on 08/22/2012 8:34:21 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: muir_redwoods
risky living ones life as a racist since none of us can vouch for the morals of our great-great-great grandmothers.

The Hitler syndrome.

38 posted on 08/22/2012 8:34:21 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Renfield

Well, that explains how the bagpipes got to Scotland...or not.


39 posted on 08/22/2012 8:43:04 AM PDT by madison10
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To: Lowell1775; muawiyah
Muawiyah pointed out to me once that the Picts could have been annihilated by the Britons-Scotti-Angles. This was expressly so in the area of what is now Glasgow which was Britons where the BRitons moved north to get away from teh Angles and Saxons. At the same time to the east of them were Angles and to the north picts and Scotti (who came from Ireland)

Berber, Irani (Sarmatian), Roman, etc. blood is to be expected.

40 posted on 08/22/2012 8:43:17 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Renfield
This article is a load of PC junk!

They stated in the article that there were “Scots, Celtic, Viking and Irish” in Scotland. Th Irish are Gaelic Scots who happen to be Celtic, and there are Gaelic Scots in Scotland who came from Ireland who are the same race. There are also Pict's in Scotland who are Celts as well.
Then you have the Norse in the north of Scotland who also trace there ancestry to the Celts.

Whoever wrote this article didn't do there homework.

As was posted above the Celtic people stretched from Ireland to as far away as the steppes of Russia and from Asia Minor (Turkey) to Norway. They are one of the oldest known races in the world.

41 posted on 08/22/2012 8:52:37 AM PDT by Southron Patriot (Deo Vindice)
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To: Cronos
Yup, and anything that could get thre by boat ~ and people have had boats for thousands of years.

You go back 8,500 years ago there was even more land since the ocean had not reached its preent level, so they could have been driving some early model SUVs into the region.

A lesson ~ up until recent times the Sa'ami were considered to be an Asian people who'd moved West. They are now known through careful examination of their DNA to be a Western European people who'd moved North so long ago they'd lost contact with Western Europe ~ and had been brought back into permanent contact about 1,000 years ago.

They look different because they retained more of the facial characteristics of their Cro-Magnon ancestors than did other Europeans.

Western Europeans, at the same time, were imagined to have been a Black Sea population that gradually repopulated Europe after the Ice Age. DNA examination reveals that they are actually Western Europeans who stayed in place and spread out from roughly the Franco-Spanish border. There's a later admixture of Middle Eastern agriculturalists in the mix ~

So, one might ask, where did the Western Europeans come from in the first place ~ and the answer is Western Central Asia where they were relatively safe during the last Interstadial (short duration of warm climate during a period of otherwise intense glaciation). They arrived there from the Middle East during an earlier Interstadial, and they arrived in the Middle East during an even earlier Interstadial ~ and may have even occupied a WET Arabian peninsula for a good long time before that.

They are, as it turns out, derived from the same ancestry as most Middle Eastern and East Asian peoples!

However, due to isolation and climate change they simply turned out to look a bit different, and when we get to the Sa'ami to actually BE a bit different since their ancestors' environment was so cold. You don't just personally adapt to the Arctic ~ you must change the way your heart beats and how your liver functions, and how you see in the dark or sleep in the daytime. It's good to have a longer torso and shorter limbs. Might be smart to grow a bigger brain too, and have some missing teeth so you can tear into raw meat and fish without much effort. Blue blindness and extra red receptors help as well.

All of that shows up in the DNA as well.

42 posted on 08/22/2012 9:03:16 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: babble-on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=ZczeTjIyPL8


43 posted on 08/22/2012 9:08:08 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Celtic Conservative
There's Celtic cultural history, and Celtic ethnic history. When you get to Spain it's very clear that Celts from the Mediterranean conquered the North about 700 BC and over a period centuries moved to the British Isles and adjacent European headlands.

British historians thought that to be ridiculous until DNA demonstrated that the Irish were genetically identical to Basque people in Spain.

More recent DNA study reveals that the Brits themselves are genetically identical to the Irish, and not the Saxons.

They are reeling under the assault. We have them on the run now.

44 posted on 08/22/2012 9:09:05 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Renfield

What I want to know is which of those exogeneous peoples brought in the skirts?


45 posted on 08/22/2012 9:12:41 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Lowell1775
This may be part of a wider effort in the UK to rewrite the islands' heritage to fit their diversity paradigm. Questioning Celtic origins-- and some even deny there was such thing as Celts-- while minimizing their historical influence receives special focus for some reason. There is a prominent Irish professor involved, but I cannot recall his name.

I reckon it's an apparatus of tearing down cultural tradition in order to impose another; easier to disclaim their values and demoralize them in this way. Even here, though, the "revaluations" are scantly meaningful.

46 posted on 08/22/2012 9:19:28 AM PDT by Dysart (Obama Faults Profit. Reject That.)
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To: Celtic Conservative; Prov1322
Any man who quotes Frank Rizzo on his home page is OK with me.


Frank Rizzo mural at 9th and Montrose Streets in the Italian Market, Philadelphia

47 posted on 08/22/2012 9:21:09 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. -- George Bernard Shaw)
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To: GraceG

Hmm ~ 150 years back we had folks in America who could tell you their membership in hundreds of African tribes. That’s pretty multi-culti.


48 posted on 08/22/2012 9:24:49 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Renfield

49 posted on 08/22/2012 9:25:03 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. -- George Bernard Shaw)
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To: Billthedrill
What I want to know is which of those exogeneous peoples brought in the skirts?

All of them.

Skirts are easy to make and easy to wear. You can relieve yourself without disrobing and one size fits most.

However once horse back riding arrived things changed and breeches were born. More guys rode then girls so breeches became a "mans clothes" and skirts became "girls clothes".

Where the weather was hot or there was not a lot of long distance horse back riding skirts stuck around long enough to move into the category of "native dress" and survived.

50 posted on 08/22/2012 9:26:05 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Fate plays chess and you don't find out until too late that he's been using two queens all along)
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