Posted on 09/17/2012 11:50:46 AM PDT by Renfield
“I’ve been considered nuts, speaking to two bits of wire and expecting an answer from them,” admitted local historian Walter Elliot as he published his new book on dowsing, called Divining Archaeology, “but I do get an answer from them! I’ve found so much stuff now, they cannae say I’m nuts.”
The amateur archaeologist, who lives in Selkirk, has used divining rods to locate underground objects for more than 50 years, at first hunting for buried field drains and fence posts while working as a fencing contractor.
“If you were unlucky enough to burst a drain while digging a fencepost, water would flood up and you had to bail it,” he remembered. “There would be a lot of bad language, and you lost half a day’s hard work. The divining rods were practical tools, which were able to detect soil disturbances. I just used a couple o’ bits o’ L-shaped fencing wire.
“I’ve always known about divining,” he added. “I was brought up in Ettrick and all the farms up there used divining rods, usually Y-shaped hazel twigs. When you held them over a drain, they pointed back towards your chest. It was just accepted. They didnae ken how it worked: it just worked.
“My grandfather, he had the Y-shaped hazel twigs, which he held very gently in his pinkies, and he had a cushion on his chest, because it came back with such a force it could have broken his ribs. It was phenomenal how fast that thing whipped back, as soon as he went over a drain.”
While Walter was assisting the excavation of the Roman fort of Trimontium, it dawned on him that, “a Roman defensive ditch was only an over-sized drain,” and “a pattern of former postholes could indicate a house.”
“I began to find houses, people, everything more or less – like where there was a male or female in a grave. People think you can only look for water – but you can look for everything. Divining is like x-raying the ground.”
Demonstrating to TheSouthern how he uses his divining rods, Mr Elliot explained: “When I’m looking for things, I just say, for example: ‘Where is the nearest drain?’. And the rods point that way. I’ll go over there, and the rods will cross when I walk over it.
“I can tell what is under here, by asking: ‘Is it a water pipe?’. The wires cross, so yes it is. ‘Is it iron? Is it copper? Is it plastic? The wires crossed again, so it’s plastic.”
Seeing the reporter’s amazement, he added: “I’m no’ kidding. I’m no’ just pulling your leg. I’m holding the rods very lightly and carefully. I just go the way the rods are pointing, and there it is. It’s impressive.
“The difficulty is telling what the object is, and what year it belongs to. It’s a matter of persuading folk that this is one way you can find archaeological stuff, and pinpoint them, without great expense. But archaeologists, being scientists, just simply don’t want to know. I’ve found loads of archeology in the Borders, if only I can get somebody to come to dig it and prove it.” Asked how he convinces people to believe him, he responded: “I don’t bother. It’s no’ a case of belief. It’s a case of: it happens. As I fencer I couldnae have cared less, I just knew it happened. And everybody did. It was just something you did. There’s no scientific explanation that I’ve been able to find. And it’s no’ a case of me trying to twiddle anything. Archaeologists, being scientists, simply don’t want to believe something they can’t explain.”
Does he think he perhaps sees external signs, like humps and bumps, and he subconsciously moves the rods?
“Most of the finds in the book, there’s nothing you can see on the ground whatsoever,” he responds. “The only explanation I can give is that, when you have a drain or a post, water comes into it and gets held there because the soil is less dense than the surrounding soil. It’s a change in soil density. I’m finding things they can’t see with aerial photography or geophysics.”
Asked what motivated him to write such a controversial book, Mr Elliot replied: “I’m getting on – I’m 77, I’ll be 78 next month, and I dinnae have much time left. I want to get it all on paper, so that somebody else can run with it. I’ve got a lot of information in my head. If you’ve got information, you’ve got to spread it about, and let others get the benefit of it. I don’t mind being wrong. But I know I’m right.”
Scottish Borders Council’s archaeologist Dr Chris Bowles cautiously supported some of Walter’s claims.
He said: “We’re excavating a bishop’s palace near Ancrum in October, and the guy who told us it was there was a diviner. We tested his claims with geophysics, and it was broadely similar to the plans he got with divining rods. That’s why I say there could be something in it: I’m 50/50 on it. The jury’s definitely out.
“If it works, it detects differences of water retention in the soil. Anything buried in the soil is going to retain water differently, like walls or ditches. The biggest issue is how diviners interpret these findings, because there’s so much buried under the ground: geological features like natural fissures can retain water, and all of that can look like archaeology. It’s great diviners are finding this stuff, but we need to test their claims physically. The problem is archaeology is expensive, so you can’t test every single one.”
Walter Elliot is giving a talk about his new book at the Selkirkshire Antiquarian Society in Selkirk Parish Church Hall at 7.30pm on Wednesday, September 19.
There was a water line break near where I lived about 3 winters ago.
So I was out watching them work on it, apparently the water line was somehow laid in a gravel base and covered by the road. The road sloped, and the water wa gushing out from under the asphalt.
The guy working on it has a chain around his neck with some kind of jewelry piece setup on it, and he starts walking up the road swinging it.
About six feet up the road, he says “Here it is”, and kicks a mark in the snow.
They start with the jackhammer, he was dead on, took them about another 35 minutes to fix it.
My jaw dropped big time that day!
And to make you scratch your head even more, this was the city water crew who was doing the work!
That must make life pretty difficult for him.
Driving home, every time he crosses over a water line it would yank on his neck. He must have to avoid bridges that cross rivers, as the pull would probably break the chain.
Taking his dog for a walk must be awful as well, as every time he crosses a water line it would pull on his neck.
And heaven forbid he should actually get in a boat wearing the thing. It might actually pull him right down to the bottom of the boat.
Think about it. Have you every wondered why these devices are attracted to water sometimes, but not other times? If a Y-shaped stick really was pulled toward the ground when it hovered over underground water, wouldn't it be impossible to just carry a Y-shaped stick across your backyard without it jumping out of your hand?
And yet, that isn't what happens. People carry sticks and rods all over the place (all the time) and never report then jumping out of their hands, or wheelbarrow, or truck because they're carrying them over an underground water source.
Why does it work sometimes, and not others? Because it doesn't really work in the first place.
Just telling you what I saw.
Whatever happened there, you can decide.
Wait, you didn’t see it....
Not really. When I farmed and grew up on a farm; I could find underground water drainage tile lines this way.
Not sure why it worked but it did. I just would take 2 pieces of #9 wire (thicker wire) about 3 foot long. Bend one end so you had a handle. Walk with them loosely held in front of me. When I would get over an area with a tile line they would move towards each other; cross over.
I assume it's something with the magnetic field being slightly different in those areas.
Not “magical; but something scientific.
I just know it worked pretty well. Would have a can of orange spray paint, and I could mark the tile line pretty well after coming at the area from different angles.
Kind of like using a stud finder.
They have a lot better methods than my 2 pieces of wire is why!
When I did it; I could afford to be off a bit; they can't!
You mistake me for a credulous enthusiast. I am not. I’ve seen some strange things-not limited to dowsing, either-that I generally ascribe to either chicanery or the devil and his angels. I wouldn’t pursue any of it.
Connecting with your subconscious and getting it to reveal things your conscious mind misses can and does work.
If you search (on google or Amazon) dowsing, it is striking how much of the material has a new-age, spiritual aspect to it.
"Dowsing tools, tips, books, resources, classes. Large selection of quality pendulums and divining rods for the discriminating dowser and energy healer." -- divingmind.com
"Dowsers.com is dedicated to helping you to grow spiritually and heal through dowsing, the teachings of Walter Russell, and Celtic Sea Salt." -- dowsers.com
"This is the best site for products and information on Dowsing and Pyramid Power!! " - dowsing.com
The American Society of Dowsers (dowsers.org) is an virtual Pandora's box of new-age mumbo-jumbo. Just a quick sampling of items they sell on their website:
And, all this was in the 1st page of results of a google search of the word "dowsing."
Whatever dowsing actually is, it's obvious that there is a strong enough spiritual dimension to it that it leads people away from the truth (the Bible) and towards spiritual error.
I agree with the idea of many different spirits and [little g--gods] out there altering and influencing the world.
But, I have used metal coat hangers to locate the metal water lines on our property. Nothing magical about that.
Simply saying "it works" doesn't explain why it works. Nor does it disprove that it works "by magic" or via a supernatural force.
Moses used a rod and with our 'God' he unleashed water. That is not blasphemy nor did I infer that it was divining.
The context in which you used the quote (a thread on divining) certainly made it look like you were using it as an example of divining found in the Bible. If not, they why did you quote the line?
Place the line in context and it seems to have nothing to do with divination or dowsing.
"Now there was no water for the community, and the people gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron. 3 They quarreled with Moses and said, “If only we had died when our brothers fell dead before the Lord! 4 Why did you bring the Lord’s community into this wilderness, that we and our livestock should die here? 5 Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!”
6 Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the tent of meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the Lord appeared to them. 7 The Lord said to Moses, 8 “Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.”
9 So Moses took the staff from the Lord’s presence, just as he commanded him. 10 He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.
12 But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”"
God did not command Moses to use his rod to locate water--there was no divining (searching for water) with a stick. God told Moses exactly where it was.
God also did not tell Moses to use his rod to bring forth the water. God told Moses to speak to the rock, and it would bring forth water. God, in fact, gets angry at Moses for using his rod to bring forth the water (by hitting the rock--notice again there is no dowsing with a stick going on to locate the water source).
And yes, taking scripture--God's word--out of context to imply it says something it doesn't (twisting scripture) is a form of blasphemy.
www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html
Anyone with real confidence in his abilities is free to prove his mettle in front of The Amazing Randi. Do it under conditions that prohibit cheating, and he'll give you a million dollars. No one has managed yet.
Randi is a dishonest person who has no intention of paying up, no matter what anyone shows him.
The only way you could know this to be true would be if someone had successfully demonstrated magical powers in front of of Randi under conditions that prohibited cheating, followed by Randi's refusal to pay up.
Do you know of such an occurance? If so, please document it.
Randi has structured the rules of his “challenge” in such a way that it would be functionally impossible to overcome it, and also functionally impossible to sue him if you did, and he reneged. No one in his right mind would sign the legal contract for such a challenge.
You can read about it here...
http://voices.yahoo.com/exposing-unfair-truth-james-randi-1000000-120038.html
OOps...wrong link..it’s this one...
http://dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge
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