additional:
An artistic expression of how a large impact might have looked (Carsten Egestal Thuesen / GEUS) [Topper Site Supports Theory of Extraterrestrial Impact 12,900 Years Ago]
Posted on 09/20/2012 7:18:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
An interdisciplinary team of scientists from seven U.S. institutions says a disregard of three critical protocols, including sorting samples by size, explains why a group challenging the theory of a North American meteor-impact event some 12,900 years ago failed to find iron- and silica-rich magnetic particles in the sites they investigated.
Not separating samples of the materials into like-sized groupings made for an avoidable layer of difficulty, said co-author Edward K. Vogel, a professor of psychology at the University of Oregon.
The new independent analysis -- published this week in the online Early Edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences -- did, in fact, isolate large quantities of the "microspherules" at the involved sites where the challengers previously reported none. Lead author Malcolm A. LeCompte, an astrophysicist at Elizabeth City State University in North Carolina, said the findings support the climate-altering cosmic impact, but his team stopped short of declaring this as proof of the event.
The Clovis-age cosmic-impact theory was proposed in 2007 by a 26-member team led by Richard B. Firestone. That team included University of Oregon archaeologists Douglas J. Kennett and Jon M. Erlandson. While other groups have found corroborating evidence of a potential cosmic event, other groups reported difficulties doing so. One group, led by Todd A Surovell of the University of Wyoming, did not find any microspherule evidence at five of seven sites they tested, including two previously studied locations where Firestone reported large numbers of microspherules.
(Excerpt) Read more at eurekalert.org ...
The Impossible Dinosaurs - Megafauna and Attenuated Gravity
Kronia.com ^ | Ted Holden
Posted on 03/21/2008 2:01:20 AM PDT by Swordmaker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1989265/posts?page=1
Gee Fred, then you would you prefer to believe there are no liars? I've read all I care to about Darwin and Lyell and have come to the conclusion they consistently and deliberately misrepresented and/or ignored evidence that presented itself. Not just once, but over and over; again and again. Would you prefer to label them discombobulators??? Sugar coating what to me is obvious doesn't change anything. Look at the evidence.
Fred, at least gimme a clue what you’d like me to pull from that thread. It’s an oldie but a goodie I recall reading and scratching my head over at the time.
I can’t call a theory a lie when that theory was arrived at through the limited evidence that was then available to the theorists.
Maybe I would understand better what you mean by lying, if you gave me an example.
Just how did Hutton, Lyell and Darwin lie? I have no argument with their achievements. They all left a body of valuable work, my argument isn’t with them, it’s with the geologists who haven’t moved out of the 18th century.
It simply tells you that conditions were not always the same, so Uniformitarianism as per Hutton and Lyell is not a sound theory.
It also suggests that the timelines required by Darwin for the theory of evolution also has a few problems...if you are looking for answers, I don’t have them. I deal in questions. Why it is so?
He can find many fans of his incredulity at the shaking of the entire globe, particularly among those who profess hatred for his work, without knowing what’s really in it. :’) Thanks Fred Nerks, nice excerpt!
Looks to me like you've actually answered your own question; maybe without knowing it??? See HERE.
What we have are opposing views:
Not everyone agrees on the processes at work upon our planet. The new theory of uniformitarianism currently prevails, but the ancient concept of catastrophism is still alive and kicking.
Uniformitarianism/Gradualism: A theory that says the natural processes that change the Earth in the present have operated in the past at the same gradual rate, and that geological formations and structures can be interpreted by observing present-day actions.
Catastrophism: A theory that says the geological features of the Earth were formed by a series of sudden, violent catastrophes rather than a gradual evolutionary process. Since the 1830s conventional geological theory has revolved around the concept of uniformitarianism (or gradualism) - that the processes of the Earth have always been the same as we can observe today. The originator of these ideas was Scottish geologist James Hutton (1726-1797), although it took the efforts of Charles Lyell (1797-1875) and his Principles of Geology (1830) to enable the theory to become widespread. This new gradualist viewpoint, involving time-spans of millions of years, gave rise to the modern ideas of continental drift, the ice ages and Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.
You can always search creationscience.com for anything specific. When I first encountered this site I simply could not stop reading and read it all straight through - and again several times now as there is more information than anyone could digest in only one reading. Also I was in a rush with my prior post - more of a ping until I had more time to return.
Here’s a good summary excerpt that I’m confident is the best explanation for frozen mammoths and the global flood of Noah. [left the footnotes in 109-117 and obviously much better formatted from the original website too]
” Evidence Requiring an Explanation
Summarized below are the hard-to-explain details which any satisfactory theory for the frozen mammoths should explain.
Abundant Food. A typical wild elephant requires about 330 pounds of food per day. Therefore, vast quantities of food were needed to support the estimated 5,000,000 mammoths that lived in just a small portion of northern Siberia. Adams’ mammoth, discovered in 1799, “was so fat ... that its belly hung below its knees.”109 How was abundant food available inside the Arctic Circle, especially during winter months when the Sun rarely shines?
Warm Climate. Abundant food requires a temperate climate, much warmer than northern Siberia today—or during the Ice Age. Little of the food found in Berezovka’s mouth and stomach grows near the Arctic Circle today. Furthermore, the flower fragments in its stomach show that it died during warm weather. Despite the popular misconception, the mammoth was a temperate—not an Arctic—animal.
Away From Rivers. Although most frozen remains are found along river banks where excavations naturally occur, some frozen remains are found far from rivers.
Yedomas and Loess. Frozen mammoths are frequently found in yedomas and loess. What accounts for this and the strange properties of yedomas and loess? What is the source of so much loess?
Elevated Burials. Mammoth and rhinoceros bodies are often found on the highest levels of generally flat, low plateaus.110 Examples include dense concentrations of mammoth and rhinoceros remains in yedomas and the interior of Arctic islands. Dima was discovered in a mountainous region.
Multi-Continental. Soft parts of large animals have been preserved over a 3,000-mile-wide zone involving three continents (Asia, Europe, and North America). It is unlikely that so many unrelated local events would produce such similar results over such a broad geographical area.
Rock Ice. Strange, granular, Type 3 ice containing clay, sand, and a large volume of air pockets is sometimes found near frozen mammoths. [See Table 10 on page 262.]
Frozen Muck. Mammoth carcasses are almost exclusively encased in frozen muck.111 Also buried in muck are huge deposits of trees and other animal and vegetable matter. The origin of muck is a mystery.
Sudden Freezing. Some frozen mammoths and rhinoceroses had food preserved in their mouths, stomachs, or intestines.112
Suffocation. At least three mammoths and two rhinoceroses suffocated. No other cause of death has been established for the remaining frozen giants.
Dirty Lungs. Dima’s respiratory and digestive tract contained silt, clay, and small particles of gravel. Just before he died, Dima breathed air and/or ate food containing such matter.
Peppered Tusks. Why, over wide geographical areas, did millimeter-size particles (rich in iron and nickel) become embedded in one side of some mammoth tusks?
-150°F. Temperatures surrounding some mammoths must have plunged below -150°F.
Large Animals. Most frozen remains are from the larger, stronger animals such as mammoths and rhinoceroses.
Summer-Fall Death. Vegetation in the stomachs and intestines of preserved mammoths implies that they died in late summer or early fall,114 perhaps in August115 or even late July.116
Animal Mixes. Bones of many types of animals, friends and foes, are frequently found near the mammoths.
Upright. Several frozen mammoths, and even mammoth skeletons,117 were found upright. Despite this posture, the Berezovka mammoth had a broken pelvis and shoulder blade, and a crushed leg. Surprisingly, he was not lying on his side in a position of agony.
Vertical Compression. Berezovka’s crushed leg bone and horizontally flattened penis show severe vertical compression before or soon after death. Dima was also compressed and flattened.
Eighteen pieces of the problem are now before us. Fitting this centuries-old jigsaw puzzle together will be our final task. As you will see, clever and imaginative proposals have been made, but most address only a few pieces of the puzzle.”
Use ‘Mammoths Table 10’ on this website search engine or refer to pages 260-272 for a much more detailed explanation.
Of course in order to accept the hydroplate theory you must also be willing to examine the evidence for a 6000 year old creation...
101 Evidences for a Young Age of the Earth...And the Universe
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
Can’t help but add also that burying all of the carbon life forms in a world-wide flood will drastically change the uniform assumptions of carbon dating...See table 212 of creationscience.com for the details.
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ215.html
Also a worldwide tearing of the Earth’s crust combined with a tearing open of the Earth’s atmosphere is simply the best explanation leading to an ice age.
See also Genesis 7:11 “all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.”
It’s total BS.
Uniformitarinaism vs catastrophism has been sliced and diced here for years. Catastrophism seems to be getting the upper hand in recent years for reasons I don't quite comprehend since the evidence for periods of mass destruction on our little planet have been around forever and are, well, legion. The problem is, and again for reasons I don't quite comprehend, is that "science" bought into the uniformitarian model and the "theory" became so embedded in the culture it became fact. In may just be coincidental that this theory is contrary to much of the ancient accounts of sudden cataclysms, including the Bible.
From my limited knowledge of the debate it looks like Immanuel Velikovsky was the first in recent(if you accept that the 50's were recent) times to mount a serious attack on the uniformitarian dogma, and dogma it is; and attack it he did. He was beaten unmercifully by the scientific community and their media and journal publishing sycophants. Why? Beats me. If you haven't read any Velikovsky, please do, and start with EARTH IN UPHEAVEL. It's a keeper. I'm now on my fourth reading of it and I STILL run across new stuff.
I don't know what to say Fred. A view is an opinion that may or may not be based on any underlying evidence. However, a view based on partial or selected evidence is propaganda. IOW, a lie of omission, but a lie nonetheless.
An artistic expression of how a large impact might have looked (Carsten Egestal Thuesen / GEUS) [Topper Site Supports Theory of Extraterrestrial Impact 12,900 Years Ago]
I think you could say that about the proponents of Plate Tectonics...we have had that discussion before, the youngest crust of the planet is at the deepest part of the ocean, the oldest is at the margins of the continents. Plate tectonics would have the continents slipping about like eggs in a skillet, with sometimes landmasses sliding beneath each other - yet there's no evidence subduction exists.
I think these early english naturalists were observing and writing before the first impact craters had been found or identified. It was either Noah's Flood or they just refused to believe their eyes. And the Bible was full of miracles, not phenomenon observed and described by witnesses. Example, in the time of Peleg when the fountains of the deep were revealed and the earth was divided; if the believers had really believed, they would have understood this statement to be the description of a catastrophic event...but the man in the pulpit reading to the congregation of the Wrath of the Lord wasn't a scientist.
I'm sure you would find Worlds In Collision of interest. I highly recommend it, the work is utterly faithful to the accounts in the Old Testament.
Well, then we would have to assume the recording of these "miracles" were flights of fancy? Made from whole cloth? Nobody saw nothin'? The catastrophic EVENTS described from Genesis through The Revelation may have been or will be attributed to God but were they and are they not still EVENTS? Regardless of attribution? The list of "miracles" is VERY long. Consider just the plagues in Exodus for starters. Very nasty EVENTS described whether one believes God was the source or not.
And thanks for the heads up but I have already followed your recommendation from a year or two ago. I've read WIC twice and will probably go for a third reading.
I was a long-time lurker since FR inception and have never signed up for GGG due to the extreme close-minded bias of many here. Thanks for your kind replies though FGS.
The absolute strangest most unethical part [for moi] of those evolutionists and old-earthers claiming they follow a strictly scientific method is...
WHERE is it allowed to ignore and/or discard scientific facts that contradict your most cherished theories?!?!
Follow the money [esp. government give aways] ~ it shows very clearly where the corruption and bias has been introduced time and time again.
Recent scientific papers released on the complexities of DNA show clearly a much much higher intelligence at work knitting any and all unique kinds of life forms together.
Those who are clearly the most close-minded and godless have only studied and regurgitated only what the ‘leading’ authorities have filtered and allowed to be discussed.
Anything that could allow them to see the true breadth and depth of what we do know and what we don’t is ridiculed [as if that is a valid debate response - pfffttt!].
I am certain that science would have made significantly more progress if they were true to their cherished methods and open-minded enough to read and consider the research of the christians and the jews. For my money, the academia and media behave more and more like the savage and backward muslims.
Posting a link to some excerpts from Worlds in Collision for anyone who might be interested:
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JNHDA/wic.htm
COLLECTED ESSAYS
by
Immanuel Velikovsky
http://www.varchive.org/ce/index.htm
Cheers,
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
