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Mount Sinai Found!
Simcha Jacobovici TV ^ | June 11, 2013 | Simcha Jacobovici

Posted on 02/08/2014 1:58:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv

For those who have never been to Mitzpe Ramon, you’re missing out. It’s on the edge of the Ramon makhtesh -- Israel’s Grand Canyon. In fact, although it is called a “crater” in English, it is actually a “makhtesh” i.e., a “box canyon”, formed not by a meteor or a river, but by geological processes of a receding ocean. It is the world’s largest “makhtesh”!

...

In any event, no one listened, but everyone had a lot of fun. My friend Hershel Shanks who moderated my session chided me for being too confident. He wanted me to have an appropriate mount of humility when I said that his theory – following the late Frank Moore Cross – that Mount Sinai was in Saudi Arabia was impossible. Hershel, by definition, Mount Sinai has to be in the Sinai, or it’s not Mount Sinai. Having said all this, Joshua Schmidt has to be commended for creating this forum. The only way to get to the truth is by a civilized debate.

Here is a link to my paper where I contend -- no one has made a single argument as to why I am wrong -- that Hashem el-Tarif, a mountain about 45 minutes out of Eilat into the Sinai desert is, without question, (sorry, Hershel, I know I should be more humble) Mount Sinai!

(Excerpt) Read more at simchajtv.com ...


TOPICS: History; Religion; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; eilat; exodus; frankmoorecross; godsgravesglyphs; hashemeltarif; hershelshanks; mitzperamon; mountkarkom; mountsinai; mtsinaifound; negev; saudiarabia; simchajacobovici; sinai; theexodus
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Mount Sinai Found!

Mount Sinai Found

1 posted on 02/08/2014 1:58:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

2 posted on 02/08/2014 1:59:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...
One of *those* topics, as well.

3 posted on 02/08/2014 2:00:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Again?


4 posted on 02/08/2014 2:01:24 PM PST by miserare (2014--The Year We Fight Back!)
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To: SunkenCiv

That link doesn’t work and the home website won’t load.


5 posted on 02/08/2014 2:03:44 PM PST by ShakeNJake (I see dumb people.)
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To: SunkenCiv

These coordinates are worth checking out:

28°35’3.82”N
35°22’43.57”E

There is an ancient pillar on each side of the Red Sea where the the Israelites were marked as crossing in Moses’ day.


6 posted on 02/08/2014 2:04:19 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: ShakeNJake

it finally loaded for me


7 posted on 02/08/2014 2:06:41 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: SunkenCiv

Mt. Sinai is Conference Room just down the hall from me, so I don’t have trouble finding it. Mt. Hamilton, Everest, Mt. Rose, and Mt. Diablo are a lot harder to find.


8 posted on 02/08/2014 2:08:30 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: SunkenCiv

Now how’d that son of a gun get up there?


9 posted on 02/08/2014 2:08:48 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Fester Chugabrew

A shade west of those coordinates is a traditional location for the mountain. The coordinates place one at/near a delta-shaped placement of stones thought to be an altar of sacrifice constructed under the auspices/by Moses.


10 posted on 02/08/2014 2:09:22 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: ShakeNJake; bigheadfred

It loads slow; the second time (I wanted some keywords) it took a couple of minutes at least; the image in the initial post also took its sweet time when I was trying to check the topic before posting.


11 posted on 02/08/2014 2:09:56 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

Oh really?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=28°35’3.82”N35°22’43.57”E&ie=UTF-8&ei=86v2UorEOMWXqgHj7YHQDw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ


12 posted on 02/08/2014 2:13:15 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: miserare

Having visited the traditional Sinai location in Egypt, I can tell you it isn’t there,

Instead look to Arabia and most likely its Jabal al-Lawz,

If I recall correctly, this “archeologist” is the same guy that thought he had found Jesus burial ossuary a few years back, which should tell you everything you need to know about his biblical scholarship,


13 posted on 02/08/2014 2:15:20 PM PST by captmar-vell
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http://www.diggingsonline.com/pages/rese/arts/other/wyatt01.htm

http://www.nwtv.co.uk/pages/travel/middle/egypt/redsea.htm


14 posted on 02/08/2014 2:16:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: skeeter

In his “Exodus Decoded” vid, he notes that he and the crew were turned down — so they came back later in the day with handheld cameras, basically sneaked in and out at some risk.


15 posted on 02/08/2014 2:18:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Pfftt! I was born there in ‘66


16 posted on 02/08/2014 2:26:26 PM PST by diverteach (If I find liberals in heaven after my death.....I WILL BE PISSED!!!)
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To: SunkenCiv

It’s better than a location in Arabia, but still too far east. Here’s what I wrote about that:

http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/articles/Moses.html#MtSinai


17 posted on 02/08/2014 2:39:40 PM PST by Berosus (I wish I had as much faith in God as liberals have in government.)
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To: Berosus

Thanks Berosus.


18 posted on 02/08/2014 2:51:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

That link took me to an overview of North America. What gives?


19 posted on 02/08/2014 2:51:28 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Berosus

Y’know, that could be an FR topic... theoretically.


20 posted on 02/08/2014 2:51:45 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

“For those who have never been to Mitzpe Ramon, you’re missing out. It’s on the edge of the Ramon makhtesh — Israel’s Grand Canyon. In fact, although it is called a “crater” in English, it is actually a “makhtesh” i.e., a “box canyon”, formed not by a meteor or a river, but by geological processes of a receding ocean.”

Interesting that this mountain is adjacent to a diverging plate boundary where the Nubian (African) Plate and the Arabian Plate are moving in quite different directions. The “geological process of a receding ocean” is rather a product of plate tectonics as are the numerous volcanos in the area and the Red Sea itself.


21 posted on 02/08/2014 2:53:13 PM PST by JimSEA
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To: SunkenCiv

See #10. Also, the pillars I mentioned are not near the coordinates.


22 posted on 02/08/2014 2:54:42 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: SunkenCiv

IIRC The Naked Archaeologist had an episode on this. Had to be over 5 years ago.


23 posted on 02/08/2014 2:55:01 PM PST by prisoner6 (FREEDOM)
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To: SunkenCiv

Hoodathunk Moses was Pilipino !


24 posted on 02/08/2014 2:55:07 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

After they left Mt. Sinai, the Israelites went through Moab before reaching the River Jordan. Moab is in Utah...and that’s in North America.


25 posted on 02/08/2014 2:56:58 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: SunkenCiv

Ahhh...it IS the naked archaeologist. Weird program. AFAIK he is a filmaker, not an archaeologist.

Many people say he is anti Christian, especially anti Catholic.

I never got that from the proram but I didn’t wath closely.


26 posted on 02/08/2014 3:02:39 PM PST by prisoner6 (FREEDOM)
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To: Verginius Rufus

LOL. The biblical Moab is east of the Jordan River in Israel, and so is Mt. Sinai, except much further South. I am of the opinion the Israelites crossed the Red Sea at a northerly coast on the eastern tip, into modern day Saudi Arabia, partly because an ancient pillar (from the days of Solomon) stands on each side of that crossing.


27 posted on 02/08/2014 3:02:48 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew

I think they generally place Moab east of the southern part of the Dead Sea, in the present-day Kingdom of Jordan. Ammon was north of Moab (including the area where the city of Amman is now—that is where Uriah was serving with the Israelite army at the time of David’s affair with Uriah’s wife Bathsheba). Ammon was east of the southern part of the Jordan River and the northern part of the Dead Sea.


28 posted on 02/08/2014 3:17:23 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: SunkenCiv
Right here:


29 posted on 02/08/2014 3:21:06 PM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. E)
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To: prisoner6

I loved that show. Discovered it while recovering at home from gall bladder removal emergency surgery a few days before.

I didn’t get any anti-Christian out of it. To me, it was a 30 min quirky history show with lots of campy stock footage.


30 posted on 02/08/2014 3:23:51 PM PST by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: wally_bert

That’s the way I saw it too. Kinda miss it now.


31 posted on 02/08/2014 3:32:59 PM PST by prisoner6 (FREEDOM)
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To: SunkenCiv

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.... ridiculous lyrics sung by Donovan Leitch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWkGs6MxATc


32 posted on 02/08/2014 3:43:42 PM PST by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: prisoner6

I still do. There was a show called Vanishing that came on right after that I liked a lot too.


33 posted on 02/08/2014 4:16:54 PM PST by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: tflabo

That’s one of the few of his that are any good, imho. I also like the version recorded by The Bobs.


34 posted on 02/08/2014 4:17:52 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: tflabo

The Allman Brothers filled 2 entire album sides riffing off that. (Mountain Jam)

Only THEY could do something like that and get away with it. LOL!


35 posted on 02/08/2014 4:20:40 PM PST by left that other site
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To: Verginius Rufus
After they left Mt. Sinai, the Israelites went through Moab before reaching the River Jordan. Moab is in Utah...and that’s in North America.

After they got through Moab and over the Jordan, they fought the Battle of Jericho. Jericho is in Vermont, so they really got around.

36 posted on 02/08/2014 4:26:46 PM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: SunkenCiv

That don’t look nuthin’ like the mountain Charleton Heston came down.


37 posted on 02/08/2014 5:10:14 PM PST by BipolarBob
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To: SunkenCiv

That don’t look nuthin’ like the mountain Charleton Heston came down.


38 posted on 02/08/2014 5:10:16 PM PST by BipolarBob
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To: SunkenCiv

He has some valid arguments.


39 posted on 02/08/2014 5:23:32 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: SunkenCiv

Wow, y’all should check out the link and read the paper instead of making fun. I think this guy has actually established the real Mt. Sinai!

Check out this partial list from the paper:

1. According to Rabbinic sources, Mount Sinai is the lowest of the mountains in its region. Hashem el-Tarif is the lowest mountain in its region.

2. According to the Torah, Mount Sinai was able to accommodate hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Israelites (Exodus 12:37). In other words, the mountain needs a huge plateau around it, so as to accommodate a very large number of people. Hashem el-Tarif has a huge plateau around it.

3. According to the Torah, Moses was asked to create a barrier – “set a boundary” - between the mountain and the people (Exodus 19:12). Hashem el-Tarif is surrounded by a stone demarcation that is visible to this day.

4. According to the Torah, Moses destroyed the golden calf, ground it “and threw the dust into a stream that flowed down the mountain” (Exodus 32:20 and Deuteronomy 9:21. Emphasis added). Hashem el-Tarif has evidence of travertine on top of the mountain. You can readily pick up huge pieces of travertine to this . Travertine is created by fresh flowing water.

5. According to the Torah, Moses carved the stone tablets of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:4). It’s clear that Moses wasn’t working with hammer and chisel. Travertine is a soft stone. It also conforms to the Talmudic tradition that it was transparent. When you put travertine up to the light it is transparent and you can see engravings on both sides. This conforms to the
Rabbinic tradition.

6. According to the Torah, Moses spoke to the people from on top of the mountain (Exodus 19:7). Hashem el-Tarif has a natural stage and close by a natural amphitheater creating perfect acoustics and the ability to speak to the people below from the mountain above.

7. According to the Torah, there is a prominent cleft in which Moses hid, protected from the glory of God (Exodus 33:22). The natural stage at the end of the mountain is separated from the mountain itself by a very prominent natural cleft.

8. According to the Torah, the mountain was considered holy prior to the Exodus (Exodus 3:1). Hashem el-Tarif has the highest concentration of open-air sanctuaries in the Sinai.

9. According to the Torah, Mount Sinai is close to Mt. Seir (Deuteronomy 1:2 and 33:2). To this day, the extension of Hashem el-Tarif is called “Seira”.

10. According to the Torah, Israelites did not engage in professional mountain climbing to get to the plateau surrounding the mountain. They just stopped en route. Also, when Aaron meets Moses, it seems to be that the mountain is located close to the main roads, easily accessible by men, women, children, and the elderly (Exodus 4:27). Hashem el-Tarif sits on the main Sinai highway routes.


40 posted on 02/08/2014 5:24:17 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: captmar-vell
If I recall correctly, this “archeologist” is the same guy that thought he had found Jesus burial ossuary a few years back, which should tell you everything you need to know about his biblical scholarship,

He does seem to have a pro-Jewish, anti-Christian bias, but in this instance I think he has some valid historical and Biblical points on his side.

41 posted on 02/08/2014 5:27:54 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Berosus
It’s better than a location in Arabia, but still too far east. Here’s what I wrote about that:

Your paper seems to be arguing against Jebel Al-Lawz, while the author is promoting Jebel Hashem el-Tarif, which meets all of the Biblical criteria for Mount Sinai better than any of the other 14 candidates, particularly proximity to Middianite settlements that pointed others to the Saudi and Jordanian mountains locations, which do not meet the other criteria such as timelines. Jebel Hashem el-Tarif does.

Perhaps the author is a tad arrogant in his declaration of his hypothesis, but his argument is sounder than the others.

42 posted on 02/08/2014 5:43:12 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Swordmaker

Anybody have a map to show us exactly where Jebel Hashem el-Tarif is, then, since we’re not having any luck with the Google links? I will find it a convincing candidate if it is close enough to the Suez Canal for a man traveling alone to reach it in three days.


43 posted on 02/08/2014 8:10:44 PM PST by Berosus (I wish I had as much faith in God as liberals have in government.)
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks,

It would be nice to be know the truth of where Mt Sinai actually is,

I haven’t read the paper referenced in the link, would be curious if he mentions Paul’s journey at all,

Elijah went there and also in Galatians Paul tells us its in Arabia,

“For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.” Galatians 4:25


44 posted on 02/08/2014 8:50:08 PM PST by captmar-vell
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To: Fester Chugabrew; SunkenCiv; All

But are either of them volcanic in nature? Remember the pillar of fire by night and the pillar of smoke by day. And magma inflation could actually have caused a rise in the land under the waterway which made it possible to rise enough to travel across before the magma chamber emptied and it sank below water level again. A perfectly logical scientific explanation.


45 posted on 02/09/2014 1:10:40 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: Berosus

Try the map on his paper:

http://www.simchajtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jacobovici-The-Real-Mount-Sinaiwith-pictures.doc


46 posted on 02/09/2014 7:55:53 AM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: captmar-vell
I haven’t read the paper referenced in the link, would be curious if he mentions Paul’s journey at all,

He doesn't mention Paul. He discounts almost everything cited in the New Testament.

47 posted on 02/09/2014 7:59:56 AM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: gleeaikin
But are either of them volcanic in nature? Remember the pillar of fire by night and the pillar of smoke by day. And magma inflation could actually have caused a rise in the land under the waterway which made it possible to rise enough to travel across before the magma chamber emptied and it sank below water level again. A perfectly logical scientific explanation.

It may be scientific, but it doesn't necessarily explain that is what led them to the Mountain of God. . . It does not have to be a volcano. Tsunami actions can uncover sea floor for extended periods before the sea rushes back as well. It could have been a miracle. The light and noise atop the mountain, as well as the bush that 'burned without being consumed,' may well be better explained by looking to electrical phenomena. . . much of which is actually depicted Paleolithic rock art around the world

48 posted on 02/09/2014 8:10:44 AM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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To: Talisker

So, who’s making fun?


49 posted on 02/09/2014 8:12:09 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: prisoner6

People who say that about him are mistaken at best. He is a filmmaker, and I definitely don’t agree with him 100 percent. Of course, the location of Mt Sinai isn’t a theological question anyway.


50 posted on 02/09/2014 8:15:38 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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