Posted on 08/11/2004 6:52:45 AM PDT by 7thson
I have read a lot on FR concerning Kerry and the Swift Boats, and have listen and seen a lot of it on the tube and listened to the story on the radio. I believe the Swift Boat vets. However, here is my question. Since Kerry was in the Navy - and all navy personnel on FR know this - then he was required to keep a log on the boat. All the boats kept logs. All the logs are saved. Why doesn't someone go back and check the log records of Kerry's boat and the other boats? Has this been asked or done?
If sKerry retains dominion over any archived logs, these swift boats patrolled in three's. Surely the other two boats' logs would be in agreement with sKerry's accounting if his recollection of the incident is correct. If not, the other logs should serve to bolster the arguments of SBV with respect to their current contentions.
BINGO!
Log books such as these are public record. The only question would be if they were perhaps in some way classified. However, most classified stuff is declassified after 30 years, depending upon the level of original classification.
Got the following from: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq73-1.htm
The logs in question are not the same as the personnel files in St. Louis and as such would not have been subject to the fire damage in the 90s. Note he served on a BOAT not a commissioned SHIP. As such his BOAT would likely fall under the service craft definition below. That being said his parent commands records should still be available. Worth a look.
"Only deck logs from commissioned Navy ships are permanently retained by the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives. A ship "in commission" is a Navy command in her own right; she has her own administrative identity, and originates records in her own name. Annual command histories, written under a program initiated by the Chief of Naval Operations in 1952, are included in the active records of the Naval Historical Center. Deck logs are also held by the Ships History Branch of the Naval Historical Center. After 30 years, Ships History Branch transfers the deck logs to the Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001 [telephone (301) 837-3510].
Nearly all service craft are classified as "in service," rather than "in commission." They do not have their own administrative identity but are, in effect, floating vehicles operated by a parent command. Self-propelled service craft apparently keep a log of their movements for their parent command's administrative and legal purposes, but these are not sent to the Naval Historical Center and do not go into any permanent file."
I agree..get the logs and lets put them out there and let the people decide. The fitness reports would tell all, consequently KErry will never release these.
Good question. I was wondering about that last night when the libs were all over the place telling the vets they were in big trouble....law suits and all.
If they are at the Archives, an archivist should be able to guide you through them. They're probably on microfiche.
The After Action Reports should be there also.
STEP ONE
National Archives
Attention: Textual Reference (Vietnam)
8601 Adepphi Road
College Park, MD 20740-6001
Date __________________
Gentlemen,
Please verify the following records are available for research.
Unit, _________________________________________________
Brigade, ______________________________________________
Division, _____________________________________________
Date of Action, _______________________________________
OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Battalion
OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Brigade
OPERATIONAL REPORTS, Division
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Battalion
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Brigade
DAILY STAFF JOURNALS, Division
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Battalion
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Brigade
DUTY OFFICER S LOGS, Division
MACV Records
Sincerely,
_________________________________
Last, First MI
______________________________
Street Address,
______________________________
City, State Zip
I've sent an email to Collge Park asking them where I could specifically find the journals/logs for the U.S. Navy Swiftboats during the Vietnam War. Lord knows when I'll get a reply.
I have seen copies of the FITREPs as well (when they were released earlier).
His FITREPs are nothing special. IMHO they are pretty close to standard 'boilerplate' FITREPs written to provide continuity. Outstanding performance in Naval Officers FITREPs is documented much more clearly.
From my experience with the hundreds if not thousands of FITREPs that I have prepared for senior officers, the FITREPs I read of Kerry's were "damming with faint praise" at best.
If you used the inquire@nara.gov address, you should actually get a reply sooner than you think (two or three days).
Good point - the PCFs may not have deck logs, due to their small crew size. I know NARA has deck logs through WWII and possibly into Korea; after that I'm not sure. But, there are only a handful of places that can have them, with the two most likely being NARA and the Naval Hist. Center. There are enough Freepers in the D.C. area, I'm sure they'll be tracked down. The power of Freepers cannot be denied! [kristinn - aren't you a D.C.-area Freeper? Do you know of anyone that could track them down for us, God, and country?]
Actually, NARA maintains a list of professional researchers who do this thing for a living. NARA doesn't usually assign staff members for this kind of thing, unless you are requesting copies of specific records (its like FOIA where you have to know the specific document you're requesting, instead of a scatter-shot "give me anything on such-and-such."). But, the professional researchers will find it for you, copy it, and send it to you quickly for a reasonable fee.
Anything else is pulled, I have a copy of his military record page and all the PDF files, so ping me if necessary and I will post the contents of any more missing files.
I did not save it in time to have the Jan spot report.
They'll contain a lot of info since they are to record all speed and course changes; firefights, and other important incidents. The logs for the period over that Christmas would show where to boat was. If it's tied to a pier that would have been entered including the exact time the first line was over. If underway it would show the time and date when the last line was cast off along with all speed and course changes and that could be mapped out. It should also show the time and date that some CIA agent (per his website) was inserted by Kerry and his boat into Cambodia.
That's the one I used, so hopefully I'll get a respond sooner than I thought. I've done alot of research at the National Archives, and they have always been slow in getting back to me on things. That's why I figured it would take a while with this.
Okay. Your FR ID name just rang a bell with me. Are you related to Henry Lee, who was President of the Friends of the Public Garden in Boston? I was briefly in touch with him several years ago regarding the Shaw monument. Although I live in central New York, my Civil War research took me to Boston on numerous occasions.
From an official Email from the Kerry campaign ..
"The swift boat ad is full of lies. Thirteen men who never served with John Kerry lie about knowing him and viciously attack his record. It is a new low for the Republicans."
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