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ATF’s Fast and Furious Seems Colored With Shades of Iran/Contra Scandal (Here come the CIA Spooks)
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2011/07/atf-s-fast-and-furious-seems-colored-s ^ | 7/10 | Bill Conroy

Posted on 07/11/2011 5:06:57 AM PDT by RummyChick

The acting head of ATF (the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) has seemingly blown the cover of both DEA and FBI informant operations in order to spare his own neck and to deflect blame away from a badly flawed operation undertaken by his own agency.

In doing so, ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson has also left open the door to the house of mirrors that always comes into play when U.S. interests intersect with foreign affairs.

(Excerpt) Read more at narcosphere.narconews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; castaway; cia; dea; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; holder; melson; obama
Now we get to the heart of the matter. I have been asking for weeks...where's the mention of the CIA. It has their fingerprints all over it.
1 posted on 07/11/2011 5:07:07 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

“Former deep undercover DEA agent Mike Levine, who has extensive experience working in Latin America, offers his take on ATF’s Fast and Furious, a view that is grounded in first-hand knowledge of the drug war and its sordid history:

… Running guns into Mexico into the hands of criminals? There can be no objective to this but death, and lots of it.

The events in Operation Fast and Furious are eerily identical to those surrounding the arrest of General Ramon Guillen Davila, a CIA asset who was [indicted for] smuggling a ton of cocaine into the US [in] 1996, in what was described as an intelligence gathering operation, the problem being that no intelligence was ever gathered and that the ton was only one of many other similar shipments of cocaine that actually hit the streets of the U.S. by way of CIA agents.

If I were a criminal profiler, it wouldn’t take much to identify a CIA pattern here [with Fast and Furious]: A wacko, barroom commando, illegal operation that makes no sense whatsoever, run outside the control of law enforcement.”


2 posted on 07/11/2011 5:10:36 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

What’s this crap about Melson doing this to spare his own neck?

This started before he got there and he’s the only one cooperating with the investigation.

If he’d clammed up, we’d have nothing to work with!


3 posted on 07/11/2011 5:18:59 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: RummyChick

Let me place myself in Melson’s shoes.

I am head of the ATF an have been told to lay off this operation,because it is sanctioned by the White House.

Next thing I know they are setting me up as the scapegoat and trying to get me to resign while all the blame is tossed onto my back.

Would I sing? I would make Pavarotti look like a mute.


4 posted on 07/11/2011 5:19:57 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: spectre; truthkeeper; processing please hold; antceecee; navymom1; jaredt112; Edgerunner; ...

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Lots of Gunwalker content over the weekend...

A Growing Terror Threat: Hezbollah in Latin America

Janet Napolitano's former chief-of-staff one of many at center of Fast and Furious scandal

Gun-Running Timeline: How DOJ’s ‘Operation Fast and Furious’ Unfolded

Media, Bush and Obama on Mexico’s page; Perry defends US sovereignty

Democrat: Controversial ATF program shows need for tougher gun laws

Tucson police confirm: Yes, Hizballah is operating in Mexico

DOJ Inspector General Can’t Be Trusted to Investigate Gunwalker

Obama Pal and Terrorist Dohrn Linked to Mexican Killer Case

U.S. broke international law by executing Mexican national, says U.N.

La Raza Group Teams Up With Feds To Push Govt. Aid In Spanish

Are these things connected?

Law and Border

UN official: US execution of Leal broke int'l law

Mexican National Repents on Death Row: "I Know Christ Has Forgiven Me"

U.N. official deplores Texas execution (story uses Ft. Hood shooting memorial picture)

Obama to unveil new Gun Control Measures

ATF’s Melson urged to prove he’s still director and stop alleged Tampa cover-up(gunwalker)

Holder's Speech in Mexico about Project Gun Runner (April 2, 2009)

Arizona anti-illegal immigration lawmaker faces recall

‘I’ is for immigration, not invasion

Texas executes Mexican after court stay rejected

Proof of Legal Status Now Required for State (Texas) IDs

Civil rights groups sue to block law called toughest in US targeting illegal immigration

“FAST AND FURIOUS”: BATFE DIRECTOR STARTS TALKING, WHILE WASHINGTON POST KEEPS SPINNING

Day Labor Line Still Growing

Supreme Court fall agenda filled with blockbuster cases (including same sex marriage)

Cross-Border Trucking Agreement Threatens American Security and American Jobs, Charges FAIR

Texas governor defends Mexican's execution

Mexican National Shouts 'Viva Mexico!' as He's Executed in Texas

ATF Death Watch 33: C-SPAN’s Smoking Gun.

Maryland (illegal) Immigrant Tuition Plan Seems Headed For 2012 Vote

Let's get one thing straight, Gunwalker is NOT simply an ATF scandal. It IS an OBAMA scandal.

Obama stimulus funded 'guns-to-drug-lords' plan

Critics say Border Patrol access bill would ruin environment

43 weapons in Phoenix traffic stop linked to ATF strategy

Illegal Immigrants have no right to health care: Court

Texas Execution Broke International Law, Says U.N. Official

Sharpton headlines rally against new illegal immigration law

ATF’s Melson Defies Obama, Testifies on Own

Border Patrol agents prosecuted to appease Mexico

The government's gunrunners

International refugees, Latino immigrants compete for service jobs

At least 40 killed in Mexico in 24-hour period

Hell Has a New Resident and Mexico Has a New Hero

Fast and Furious: The Issue That Could Sink Obama GOPUSA.com

Video: Rep. Allen West calls for Eric Holders removal over "Fast and Furious"

Finding fertile ground for the know-it-all in Arizona

Holder Lied: DOJ News Release Shows Obama Admin Approved ATF Mexico Weapons

Holder bragged about Operation Gunrunner in 2009

Operation Castaway / Operation Fast & Furious - ATF out of control - BACKLASH card ?!?

Inquiry of weapons smuggling to expand (Mexican Marxists Bought Weapons from US Gov't)

Obama Regime NOT to blame for Gunwalker,decides Democrat Cummings

Calif Bar weighs illegal immigrant's application

Holder Lied: DOJ News Release Shows Obama Admin Approved ATF Mexico Weapons Smuggling

You would think the president is soliciting campaign contributions from the Mexican drug cartels

ATF: Mexican cartels paid to inform for FBI, DEA

ACLU begins traffic surveys in Beaver Meadows

Hume: “Obama Justice Department Reminds Me Of Nixon Justice Department”

More Gun News – Gunwalker gets worse! And proof that amnesiac Eric Holder knew 2 years ago!

West calls for Eric Holder's removal

Gunwalker: Holder’s resignation is almost inevitable

Pre-Emptively Tying Things Together (Gunwalker)

Holder Lied: DOJ News Release Shows Obama Admin Approved ATF Mexico Weapons Smuggling

Anatomy of a Scandal – Project Gunrunner

Rediscovered information on Project Gunrunner leading to misconceptions

5 posted on 07/11/2011 5:20:57 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: G Larry

It is clear to me he is doing it to save his neck.
They wanted to make him the scapegoat.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/07/july-4-bbq-in-dc-behind-closed-doors.html

The real question to me is just how far can this go when it does appear that Mike Levine is right:

“If I were a criminal profiler, it wouldn’t take much to identify a CIA pattern here [with Fast and Furious]: A wacko, barroom commando, illegal operation that makes no sense whatsoever, run outside the control of law enforcement.”


6 posted on 07/11/2011 5:24:40 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
...illegal operation that makes no sense whatsoever...

Progressive 2nd Amendment Hater:
"Those gun shows have to be stopped."

Obama:
"All those guns from gun shows end up in Mexican drug cartels."

Progressive 2nd Amendment Hater:
"It would be great if you could prove that, then we could make all guns illegal in the USA."

Obama:
"Consider it my campaign promise."

7 posted on 07/11/2011 5:34:50 AM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: RummyChick

I hear Obama was getting guns to Honduran Communists.


8 posted on 07/11/2011 5:43:44 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: RummyChick

This leads to Holder. Hussein has probably protected himself with layers of deniability.

Holder is accessory to murder and the ring leader. He lied to Congress, obstructed justice, and punished whistleblowers. Those are not official duties of the Attorney General. He deserves death penalty after jury trial for being accessory to murder. Alternatively, he can be extradited to Mexico to face justice.

This is also RICO conspiracy.

We need two special prosecutors, not linked to Hussein or Democratic party.


9 posted on 07/11/2011 5:43:49 AM PDT by heiss
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To: RummyChick

Let’s remember a few things:

Los Zetas were part of a larger cartel until Obama takes office in 2009.

Then, in early 2010 Los Zetas breaks away as an independent group, dedicated to Marxism, the overthrow of the Mexican gov’t and allegedly affiliated with Hezbollah.

Fast & Furious funnels weapons primarily to Los Zetas.

The only “usual suspect” missing from this scandal is George Soros!


10 posted on 07/11/2011 5:44:19 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
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To: Rudder

CIA does trump all.

“In fact, it may well have been co-opted and trumped by a covert U.S. intelligence agency operation, such as one run by CIA, that is shielded even from most members of Congress — possibly even the White House, if it was launched under a prior administration and parts of it have since run off the tracks on their own.”

It gets down to who gets the blame.

Is Obama going to lay it at the steps of the CIA. They ran it off the tracks and he didn’t know???

Don’t forget that Holder suddenly dropped a CIA investigation.

This is going to get messy.

I believe there is no way Holder didn’t know those guns were walking. But perhaps he was told by the CIA to let it happen.

The CIA has been involved with all kinds of sordid endeavors..and this has the hallmarks of yet another one.


11 posted on 07/11/2011 5:45:00 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Erik Latranyi

The Zetas guy claims that the Gulf Cartel had far better access to guns from the US.

Remember that the goal in many CIA ops is the overthrow of Governments. Sometimes they are successful..sometimes not - like Castro.

I thought for months that something was strange about all of these leaders being overthrown - some who had been in power for decades.

It is possible that the CIA was trying to overthrow the Mexican Goverment.

Or maybe really, the claims are true that the CIA has often been behind the sale of drugs in the US - for various agendas throughout history.

Whatever the case, we may never really know the truth.

But Obama will skate on this one - even though he had to know and probably okayed it. I doubt it was his own idea. He is just a bumbling figurehead.


12 posted on 07/11/2011 5:50:30 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
Remember that the goal in many CIA ops is the overthrow of Governments.

Yes, but Los Zetas did not exist under Bush as a separate group. They only came into their own as a powerful force in Mexico one year after Obama was innaugurated.....conveniently with CIA and DOJ assistance.

13 posted on 07/11/2011 5:56:00 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
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To: Erik Latranyi

Zambada Niebla is with Sinaloa.

His jailing conditions are suspect.

I think the CIA doesn’t want him talking to anyone because of the tales he would tell.

It is quite possible that the CIA/DOJ/FBI/ATF et al were supplying guns to all of them.

Operation CHAOS.

The story about the crash of the Gulfstream with the cocaine is interesting.

I just hope Issa gets to the bottom of this and doesn’t get shut down under the guise of National Security.


14 posted on 07/11/2011 6:04:28 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
Is Obama going to lay it at the steps of the CIA. They ran it off the tracks and he didn’t know???

Panetta and Petraeus wouldn't be pleased... It could be very dangerous for Obama to piss off two CIA directors.

15 posted on 07/11/2011 6:04:28 AM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: Rudder

In one of the stories I read on this the author was talking about how Panetta was sent over to the CIA by Obama to get it under control - and instead Obama lost control of Panetta.

The White House loses when it tries to battle the CIA - has the White House really ever won a battle with them. They always pay a price for every battle.

Was the CIA involved in the Assassination of Kennedy? Who knows..but it will always be part of the speculation.

Poor Abraham Bolden paid a price when he tried to testify about what he knew of two previous plots to kill Kennedy.

You don’t mess with the CIA.


16 posted on 07/11/2011 6:10:18 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Erik Latranyi

Wonder if Bush the “elder” can call an old friend and uncover the “connection” to Obozo.

This is a messy turf for Obozo.

He has been rumored (suspect he claims) to have worked for the Muja in Afghanastan. Have discounted those claims but this is the world he is playing with.

We need an “old spook” to shine the light of day and expose the poser who resides at 1600 Penn. Ave.


17 posted on 07/11/2011 6:13:08 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Texas Fossil

I hadn’t heard this claim.

All of his information is down a black hole- even before he was elected.

There are missing pieces to his mother’s story .

An Old Spook might shine some light on whether his mother’s info looks like she worked for the CIA -especially the info as it pertains to Indonesia.

I believe she did .

Maybe Obama did and went off the reservation...except then he wouldn’t have been elected President.

Whatever he did, it was okayed by the CIA.


18 posted on 07/11/2011 6:20:09 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

“Former deep undercover DEA agent Mike Levine, who has extensive experience working in Latin America,....”

This, right here, is the CIA disinformation spin starting HARD....which means they’re scared Obammy and Holder are going to blow chunks all over them as this erupts on up the chain into the White House


19 posted on 07/11/2011 6:46:59 AM PDT by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: Erik Latranyi
zeta history

One version, anyway. Another puts their initial breakout in the mid-90's. Hmmmm.

20 posted on 07/11/2011 7:57:25 AM PDT by MurrietaMadman
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To: Venturer
"Would I sing? I would make Pavarotti look like a mute."

Agreed. I'd be putting shame to a whole flock of Canaries. I just hope this guy knows not to go anywhere near Fort Marcy Park.

21 posted on 07/11/2011 8:50:43 AM PDT by Desron13
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To: Venturer
"Would I sing? I would make Pavarotti look like a mute."

Agreed. I'd be putting shame to a whole flock of Canaries. I just hope this guy knows not to go anywhere near Fort Marcy Park.

22 posted on 07/11/2011 8:54:23 AM PDT by Desron13
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To: RummyChick
http://www.archive.org/details/TheSaudiAgentBehindBarackObama-KhalidAlMansour

Caution: anything that Zbigniew Brzezinski is involved in is very suspect. I despise him.

This is not the source where I first read about it, but is much the same.

Khalid Al Mansour definitely has a connection to Obozo. Long term connection.

23 posted on 07/11/2011 9:15:55 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: mo

can you elaborate. The guy is pinning it on the CIA. So are you saying the CIA is trying to deflect from the White House?


24 posted on 07/11/2011 9:26:05 AM PDT by RummyChick
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25 posted on 07/11/2011 9:36:57 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: RummyChick

This is a VERY murky world to say the least...the appearrenc e of “Mike Levine” who is assuredly “Former deep undercover DEA agent...” (if there really is such a person) merely signifies great, deep turmoil in the alphabet agencies about Holder/Obama

see here for the yucky stuff....

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/07/obamas-coke-pipeline.html


26 posted on 07/11/2011 10:44:20 AM PDT by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: mo

Mike is for real
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Levine_%28DEA%29


27 posted on 07/11/2011 10:46:10 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

could be...its a VERY murky world out there...google “mockingbird” if you want more info on the organization of disinformation in America.


28 posted on 07/11/2011 10:54:59 AM PDT by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: RummyChick
The operation that has put Melson in the hot seat before Congress is known as Fast and Furious, which was launched in October 2009 as an offshoot of Project Gunrunner — ATF’s larger effort to stem the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico

What did I try to tell you?

29 posted on 07/11/2011 11:00:40 AM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: TigersEye

And what was the date of Ogden’s speech, eh??? March 2009????? So six months later Gunwalker is put into effect?

Ogden’s speech is not proof that Holder perjured himself nor is the funding in the stimulus bill. This is what the two guys who broke this story keep trying to tell people

You don’t know at what point and just who ordered these guns to walk.

You have to have more evidence.

So far, there is none in the public. As for the October 2009 date, I haven’t seen that confirmed anywhere, yet. But it makes sense.

My personal opinion is that he lied...but I think CIA trumped all and this was a botched CIA gig.


30 posted on 07/11/2011 2:50:11 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

My post said nothing about Ogden’s speech.


31 posted on 07/11/2011 2:53:08 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: TigersEye

To: RummyChick

Oh, and the statements made by Ogden and Holder about funding and specific personnel increases were definitely specific enough to identify them as being a part of F&F. What the personnel makeup was under Bush was doesn’t mean a thing regarding Ogden and Holder’s statements made in 2009 when 0bama was President.

19 posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 12:07:26 AM by TigersEye


32 posted on 07/11/2011 2:58:47 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
As for the October 2009 date, I haven’t seen that confirmed anywhere, yet.

Almost nothing has been confirmed if you are speaking of testimony under oath or documentation. But the following timeline is one of a few statements reported in the press that F&F began in Sept. '09.

Gun-Running Timeline: How DOJ’s ‘Operation Fast and Furious’ Unfolded

Operation Fast and Furious Timeline:

September 2009 – Jan. 8, 2010: A Jan. 8, 2010 briefing paper from the ATF Phoenix Field Division Group VII says: “This investigation has currently identified more than 20 individual connected straw purchasers.” It further says: “To date (September 2009 – present) this group has purchased in excess of 650 firearms (mainly AK-47 variants) for which they have paid cash totaling more than $350,000.”

I don't suppose a briefing paper from the ATF Phoenix Field Division is what you call proof but it seems like enough to bring into the discussion to me.

33 posted on 07/11/2011 2:59:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: RummyChick

You responded to post #29 so I thought you were referring to that information.


34 posted on 07/11/2011 3:01:03 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: TigersEye

I think someone said that was about the time that some reports say that Zetas broke off from the Gulf Cartel.

I have seen reports that did it in early March and other reports that it wasn’t until 2010.

But it doesnt really matter because we were supplying them to all the Cartels.


35 posted on 07/11/2011 3:09:21 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick
I think someone said that was about the time that some reports say that Zetas broke off from the Gulf Cartel.

I don't know what that means or what is has to do with when F&F was initiated.

36 posted on 07/11/2011 3:11:06 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: RummyChick
Old info on Zetas from 2009

http://samuellogan.blogspot.com/2009/07/zeta-and-gulf-cartel-relationship.html

"As Mexican DTOs go, cooperation never a lasts. A showdown between the Gulf Cartel and the Zetas could very likely spark another round of violence - one that possibly would play out in a number of cities across the US where the Zetas and the Gulf Cartel work in tandem - Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Atlanta, Charlotte, Baltimore to name only a few...

So to me, the CIA was trying to create Chaos in the US and in Mexico and in Honduras


37 posted on 07/11/2011 3:12:00 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: TigersEye

The Drug Wars is what this is really all about.

This isn’t just about trying to curtail 2nd Amendment rights.

This is about Chaos and the Drug Cartels.


38 posted on 07/11/2011 3:13:36 PM PDT by RummyChick
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To: RummyChick

Okey dokey.


39 posted on 07/11/2011 3:14:48 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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