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The Revision of Ancient History - A Perspective
SIS - How Historians have now embraced Velikovsky! ^ | Internet Paper Revision no.1 March 2001 | By P John Crowe

Posted on 04/19/2002 12:33:06 PM PDT by vannrox

Ancient history as taught today is a disaster area. The chronology of the first and second millennium BCE is badly wrong. The history of ancient history revisionism offered here is drawn largely from the pages of SIS publications over the last 25 years.

The Revision of Ancient History - A Perspective

By P John Crowe.

An edited and extended version of a paper presented to
the SIS Jubilee Conference, Easthampstead Park, Sept. 17-19th 1999 [1]
Internet Paper Revision no.1 March 2001

Contents


  1. Introduction

2.1 Exaggerating Antiquity. 2.2 The Early Greek and Alexandrian Historians. 2.3 The Early Christian Chronologists. 2.4 Sir Isaac Newton, First of the Major Revisionists. 2.5 The Birth of Egyptology and the Chronological Debate. 2.6 The Invention of the Dark Ages, and Resulting Disputes.

3.1 Velikovsky and Ages In Chaos. 3.2 Donovan Courville. 3.3 Pensée, and E Schorr on Dark Age Mythology. 3.4 Schorr and the Stratigraphy of Troy

4.1 1974 to 1978 The SIS Early Years. 4.2 Velikovsky's Peoples of the Sea and Rameses II and his Time 4.3 J Dayton and 'Minerals, Metals, Glazing and Man' 4.4 Glaring Glazing Anachronisms. 4.5 Glazing Anomalies Resolved by The Glasgow Chronology

5.1 The James-Rohl Chronology. 5.2 The Formation of ISIS. 5.3 D Rohl and the New Chronology; Will It Stand the Test of Time? 5.4 P James, Centuries of Darkness, and an Alternative Revision. 5.5 G Heinsohn and the Evidence of Stratigraphy.

6.1 An Overview. 6.2 Mainstream Revisionists. 6.3 Ages in Chaos Revisionists. 6.4 More Radical Revisionists. 6.5 'Significant Others'.

7.1 Revisionists Are Still Needed. 7.2 Archaeology to the Rescue? 7.3 Scientific and Astronomical Dating. 7.4 Catastrophic Dating. 7.5 Israel or Greece as the Flash-points? 7.6. Proof beyond Reasonable Doubt. 7.7 Vested Interests and the Deaf Establishment.

8.1 Velikovsky's Pillars Supporting Conventional Chronology Have Changed. 8.2 The Shishak = Shoshenk Equation in Focus. 8.3 Manetho Revisited. 8.4 Which of the Competing Revisions will Win?


NOTE -- The historical dates quoted are B.C.E. unless otherwise stated.

1. Introduction

2. An Outline History of Revising Egyptian History - Up to 1952.

The early chronologists had lived long after the events, so could not know the facts. Their prejudices were exposed, as was their use of excessive reign lengths. He said that before monarchies and Empires, 'every king shared his territories amongst all his sons until there was no more room for division.' In Egypt as elsewhere, there were many 'kingdoms'. A king, he wrote, 'never set up more than one religion in his country, so the diversity of religions in Egypt arose from the diversity of kingdoms there in the early ages'

His favourite bêtes noires were Manetho and Berosus. As well as exaggerating history as already mentioned, Newton complained that Manetho sometimes reported the same reign twice under different names, listed kings in the wrong order, corrupted their names, repeated them again and again, and included the names of other great men and women who were only the relations of kings or their viceroys or secretaries of state. Manetho also stretched out into successive dynasties for the whole of Egypt some contemporary local kings whose domains never extended beyond a single city. Newton believed that Manetho's kings reigned in several parts in earlier times when Egypt was divided up into several small kingdoms, and that priests, from records of several cities, 'collected all these into one continual succession to make the ages of their gods look ancient'.

Newton also called Eratosthenes and his follower Apollodorus 'major felons in corrupting world chronology'. By using excessive reign lengths 'they made the antiquities of Greece 300 or 400yr older than the truth.'Ctesias was also accused of distorting history by making it almost 300yr older than it was, and of 'feigning names at pleasure'. Manetho and Diodorus were wrong to take the wars of Saul and David against the Philistines as those of the shepherds (i.e. Manetho's Hyksos), ejected from Egypt and fighting to take Palestine and build Jerusalem. He accepted that the later Christian chronographers Julius Africanus and Eusebius could do little to correct the errors of Manetho's original work.

The widely held belief that ancient civilisations knew and had accurate records of their own antiquity was also exposed as a fallacy. He showed that the ancient records of many countries were lost as a result of wars and invasions. The Egyptians had been conquered successively by the Ethiopians, Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians, and all their records were carried away by Cambyses, and again by Ochus. The annals of the Tyrians eventually came into the hands of the Greeks, were translated into Greek but both translation and originals are now lost. The old records of the Latins were burnt by the Gauls 64yr before the death of Alexander the Great. The annals of Carthage fell into the hands of the Romans but are lost, or were destroyed when Carthage was burned. Even the chronology of nations with written annals were suspect. Most records of remote epochs had been destroyed in the course of the numerous wars. What was said of nations before the Olympiads 'is confused and obscure'.

In Newton's opinion the most reliable historical sources were 'the Old Testament, the Chronological Canon of Ptolemy, the books of Tobit, Judith, Herodotus, Thucydides, the Annals of Tyre and Carthage as given by Josephus, and what has been taken from the ancient monuments and records by Diodorus, Strabo, Pausanias, Josephus, & a few others down to the reign of Darius King of Persia'. Herodotus' Egyptian history of earlier times was less accurate because their archives had suffered much during the reign of the Ethiopians and Assyrians. Newton agreed with Josephus that the Sesostris of Herodotus was Sesac, and listed many variants of the name Sesostris in Greek form to show such a mistake was linguistically plausible. That Sesostris was Tuthmoses III finds indirect support from Homer, who tells us that Memnon (i.e. Amenophis III) was at Troy, which Newton dates some 70-90yr after the death of Solomon.

Newton was the first and only revisionist to use the precession of the zodiac signs for retrocalculating three early dates where the ancients had recorded the necessary information. One such instance was in the story of the Argonautic expedition. In the account of Jason and the Argonauts, a primitive globe was said to have been constructed upon which was marked the position of the ecliptic where it passed thorough specific parts of the signs of the Zodiac. Using 1689AD as a base, and his rate of precession of 72yrs per degree, the primitive sphere could be placed 2627 years earlier -- 939BCE. This was roughly 40-60yr after the death of Solomon in around 980, according to Ussher. This was separate and independent evidence to support the same conclusion derived from genealogies, working back using more realistic reign lengths for the intervening kings. A date for the battle of Troy was then fixed from the evidence of Herodotus, who said this was one generation after the voyage to Colchis, the land of the Golden Fleece. Hence the fall of Troy was dated to around 900.

Newton's reconstruction caused an international furore. He was criticised both before and after his death by many scholars who wished to enhance their prestige by exposing weaknesses in Newton's work. Unlike mathematics, so much of history is based upon probabilities and speculation, so this was not difficult. A major weakness was his unflinching assertion that the first great monarchy was that of Solomon. This left him Hconfronted with a big problem. A reading of the Bible appears to bestow greater antiquity on the Egyptians and the Assyrian royal institutions. The Biblical picture of Egypt at the time of Moses is quite grand, and Newton never satisfactorily resolved this problem. He concluded, since the Israelites were 'scattered throughout all the land of this kingdom' in two days to gather straw, that the Egypt of Moses comprised only part of the area of the Nile Delta. The debate he started lasted for a further century, but there was always more mileage in criticising him than in offering support. In the 19th century, once Egyptian hieroglyphs could be read, the urge to exaggerate antiquity again exerted its pervasive influence. The king lists found in tombs at Abydos and Saqqara, and other texts, were read as giving support to Manetho. Thus, after a century of debate, historians quietly consigned Newton's historical work to academic oblivion.

Some important conclusions from Newton's historical studies are: -

  1. The early Greek and Alexandrian chronologists such as Eratosthenes, Manetho and Berossus are shown to have greatly exaggerated the antiquities of Egypt and Assyria.

2.5 The Birth of Egyptology and the False Chronology.

Worldwide interest in Egyptology rocketed after Napoleon and his savants brought the world of ancient Egypt to the attention of the early 19C western world. Scholars from many countries, along with treasure hunters and vandals descended upon the Nile Valley, and many among the British upper classes started to acquire collections of Egyptian antiquities. Once the great British scholar Thomas Young, followed by Champollion, had discovered how to read the hieroglyphs, Egyptologists started to see the names of kings mentioned by Herodotus and Manetho appear on the monuments before their eyes. The identification of Shoshenk I as the Biblical Shishak by Manetho/Syncellus was apparently confirmed by Champollion in 1828 when he read Shoshenk I's wall relief at Karnak. This seemingly named many Palestinian cities conquered by him during one of his campaigns. Manetho's king lists, along with others found in tombs and on papyri, were then used, together with Biblical dates for Abraham, the Exodus, and Shishak to formulate more informed views on the antiquity of Egyptian history. Separate museum and university departments for the study of Egyptology sprang up all around the world. Textbooks started to proliferate, and, of course, Egyptologists followed the natural inclinations of their predecessors in wanting to date everything as early as possible.

Around the turn of the century, the concept of Sothic Dating, first proposed by German Egyptologists, began to be accepted as a means of estimating dates, otherwise unobtainable, for the end of the MK and the beginning of the New Kingdom (NK). Although no evidence for its use by Egyptians was ever found, Sothic Dating became incorporated into accepted Egyptological dogma after being embraced by J H Breasted in his hugely influential work 'Ancient Records of Egypt' (1906).[10] At that time almost all Manetho's kings were assumed to have reigned solely and consecutively over all of Egypt, and Petrie was dating the start of the first dynasty to before 5000BC. Eusebius, 1600 years earlier, had warned that Manetho's king lists should not be read as being a sequential list, since they probably included the names of dynasties which ruled concurrently in several different parts of Egypt. Needless to say, this warning has been studiously ignored.

2.6 The Invention of the Dark Ages, and Resulting Disputes.

When Schliemann excavated the famous Shaft Graves at Mycenae in Greece in the 1870's, he found they contained some scarabs bearing the names of Amenhotep III and his wife Queen Tiy. So, when Petrie later found much similar Mycenaean pottery at Pharaoh Akhenaten's short lived capital city of Amarna, between Memphis and Thebes, such was the confidence in the correctness of Egyptian chronology that it was used to date the entire contents of the graves of the Late Helladic age at Mycenae to not later then about 1300. Egyptian dates were also applied at other sites to artefacts and everything else that was obviously contemporary with them, such as architectural and technological designs and developments. Art historians and other scholars noted their obvious and close affinities with those clearly datable in Greece, Syria and Mesopotamia to a period some 500-700 years later. Because of these similarities, many scholars, including Petrie, at first accepted the early Egyptian dates for the start of the Mycenaean era, but concluded that it must have lasted for some 7-800 years, making it flow continuously into the Greek Archaic period of the 7th century. But by the beginning of the 20th century it became clear, again from archaeology and Egyptian dates, that the Mycenaean era ended no later than around 1200BC. According to Greek tradition the Mycenaeans were believed to have been overrun by the Dorians from Northern Greece, but no evidence could be found in Greece for people, alive or dead, to fill the yawning gap between the 12th and 9th centuries. To fill these empty years, the concept of the Dark Ages of Greece was invented.

No rational explanation has ever been offered to explain why the Greeks disappeared, where they went to, why they returned, and how they managed to resume their artistic and cultural development some half a millennium later with no apparent break in continuity. And worse, no Dark Age was heard of among any of the early classical Greek and Roman writers, who lived some two millennia nearer that time. So this idea was not well received by modern art and Greek historians. It led to many heated and bitter academic disputes. Around the turn of the century A S Murray, Keeper of Greek and Roman Antiquities at the British Museum, excavated a previously unopened tomb of Mycenaean age at Enkomi on Cyprus, and published some of the ivory carvings it contained. These showed such a striking resemblance to later Greek and Assyrian work that he unhesitatingly assigned the tomb and all its contents to the 9th-7th century. His conclusions were based on a long study of a uniquely extensive range of Mediterranean and Mesopotamian sculpture, pottery and other artefacts that daily surrounded him at the British Museum. This gave him no reason whatsoever to believe in a Greek Dark Age. For his disbelief he was roundly blasted as a heretic by Sir Arthur Evans, who believed uncritically in the Egyptian dates. Evans had recently achieved wide public acclaim for his discovery of a mortuary temple at Knossos on Crete [11], which he theatrically presented to the world as a great king's palace. He was not about to have his dates for the Mycenaean and their Minoan predecessors downdated by anybody. His blast, and Egyptian dates, eventually carried the day, and Evans' romantic illusions of antiquity have contributed to the insolubility of many archaeological and art historical problems to this day. Further details of this incident are set out in a paper by Velikovsky entitled 'The Scandal of Enkomi' [12]

Another British Museum based scholar, H R Hall, was totally convinced that some of the items from Mycenae Grave Circle A belonged to c900 or later. He therefore suggested that priests opened up early D18 graves after an interval of some 600yrs, stole nothing, but piously inserted later items. This rather incredible idea not surprisingly received little support, but it illustrates the huge pressure being placed upon archaeologists and art historians, once they were forced to accept Egyptian dates for the Late Helladic period, to invent an explanation for these anachronisms.

Among other scholars disagreeing with these early dates was Cecil Torr. He also felt strongly that the monumental, traditional and genealogical evidence from Egypt and Greece could not justify a Dark Age. In the 1890's he issued a public challenge to Petrie to justify his chronology, and exposed some unsubstantiated assumptions in Petrie's archaeological reports. In 1896 he published Memphis and Mycenae [13] giving a lower Egyptian chronology based solely on monumental evidence. Since, however, Torr did not attempt to dispute that Shishak was Sheshonk I, a major reduction of the chronology was impossible, so the ensuing debate faded out with neither side altering their position.

3. Immanuel Velikovsky and Revisionists 1952-1974

4. SIS and the Pro-Ages in Chaos Era.

4.3 1978 to 1982. The Glasgow Conference and the Glasgow Chronology.

The SIS Glasgow conference was well attended. Velikovsky wrote a paper for the event, but ill health sadly made his attendance impossible, so it was read in his absence. An alternative revision called the Glasgow Chronology (GC) was then developed by SIS revisionists over the next four years. It retained the AIC synchronisms, reducing the dates for D18 by around 500yr, and leaving the remaining dynasties in their numerical sequence but with extensive overlapping. It was a joint effort mainly by Gammon, James and Bimson. Bimson in particular produced some high quality papers in support of the GC. His Glasgow conference paper had tackled stratigraphy, an issue he said Velikovsky had failed to address adequately. He argued that the archaeological ages in Palestine could be revised to accommodate Tuthmoses III as Shishak, and the start of the Iron Age down dated by some 500 years. Other important papers by him supported an 8C date for Merenptah and a 9C date for the wars of Seti I, linking each convincingly with evidence from the OT and the archaeology of Palestine.

The GC was eventually abandoned quite suddenly in 1982, due to an inability to compress the dynasties following D18, including D20 and D21 into the time available prior to the well-attested Assyrian invasion by Esarhaddon. Unfortunately those involved did not document the details of their work, or the many avenues explored, the basis for their interpretation of the evidence examined, and the reasons why they collectively failed. Indeed, with no funds available for such work, one could hardly expect them to do so. However, this left SIS members being asked to abandon their faith in Velikovsky's 500-year gaps without fully understanding why, and to adopt instead the New Chronologies of either Rohl or James. Not all, it must be said, have been willing to do this.

The Glasgow Conference Proceedings, entitled 'Ages in Chaos?' were published in 1982. In it James had added a Postscript indicating his move away from the AIC synchronisms. The authors' unanimous view was that Shishak could not have been Tuthmoses III. But did they actually prove this? Or did they prove only that, given the evidence considered and their rules for its interpretation, they were unable to condense Egyptian history into the remaining time available? Was this a failure in fact, or a failure in interpretation? Either way, the credibility of Velikovsky as a historian was dealt another heavy blow.

4.4 J Dayton and 'Minerals, Metals, Glazing and Man'

Before moving past 1978, a major publication in that year by John Dayton must be mentioned, entitled 'Minerals, Metals, Glazing and Man' [23]. This was reviewed enthusiastically by James in SISR 3:4, who said '...Dayton develops his work, which started out as a simple study of glazing technology...into a massive and devastating attack on traditional chronology...In challenging the accepted dates and synchronisms of the...Bronze Ages, his work is potentially more disruptive than Ages in Chaos itself...'. In 1971, when a student at the London Institute of Archaeology, Dayton wrote a paper in World Archaeology on 'The Problem of Tin in the Ancient World'[24]. This demonstrated that metallurgy and related arts spread along trade routes from Europe into the Near East, not from East to West, as is the popular view. The Bronze Age, contrary to current dogma, could not have started in Mesopotamia, where the required metals are absent. By exposing so much establishment dogma about the sources of metal ores, metallurgy, and their use in bronze and iron artefacts as false and misleading, he caused great annoyance to the English establishment. Their response, since they were powerless to avenge themselves on Dayton, was to take steps that led to the closure of the university section that had fostered him.

Using uncorrected and relative C14 dates, he showed an overall picture 'of metallurgy developing earlier in the regions (unlike Mesopotamia) where metals do in fact occur.' He identified the emergence of new technological achievements as a means of correlating cultural phases. Accepting the local unreliability of C14 dating, he cited the extraordinarily wide range of C14 dates from nine samples of grain from a sealed storage jar found buried at Thera (2037, 1850, 1420, 1350, 1394, 1300, 1110, 960, and 900).

Dayton's glazing study showed just how much this term has been misused by archaeologists, and revealed Petrie's 1500-year chronological blunder. Petrie had written in his 1902 Abydos 2 Report 'We have already noted the difficulty of these things being found at such a high level. But whatever dates they were placed there, it is clear that the objects are ALL of the First Dynasty. At the beginning of the First Dynasty we meet the art of glazing fully developed, not only for large monochrome vessels but also for inlay of different colours. Certainly no advance on new lines appears until in the 18th Dynasty.' To explain this, Petrie claimed that a new civilisation must have moved into Egypt, taken over the country and united it. These people brought with them a fully developed glazing technology, and the use of ware 'with a body identical to that with that of later Aegean or Mycenaean pottery...'. Where these people may have come from he did not explain, and over the following century no evidence for such an advanced 4th millennium BC civilisation has been found anywhere. But amazingly, Egyptologists believed him. None challenged Petrie over this claim, although he himself was well aware he was excavating in disturbed ground.

Petrie's unshakable belief in the early emergence of fully developed technologies had a devastating effect on chronology. By 1891 he had developed pottery sequences for Egypt that were then applied, with their Egyptian dates, first at Lachish and then to the rest of Palestinian archaeology. This led directly to the confusion we find in Middle Eastern archaeology to this day.

4.5 Glaring Glazing Anachronisms

Dayton's glazing study revealed some new and important anachronisms. Set against conventional dating, he found the first crude attempts to glaze clay seen in 14C Mitanni. Around this time glazing in early D18 Egypt also 'takes a great leap forward.' Glazing in the Near East went on to reach high standards, but in Mesopotamia it died out c13C with the fall of Mitanni. In Elam glazing had a brief flowering in the Mitanni style before dying out when Elam was conquered by Babylon in 12C. In Egypt, the last high quality glazing was found in Ramesses III's time, early 12C. After this Dayton found a gap of some 300yr until the Neo-Assyrian conquests of 9C, where he found again crude attempts at glazing. For example, Assurnasirpal II's palace has a '...scene in black on a poor blistery white glaze.' This was far from the perfection reached some 600yr earlier in Mitanni, so he concluded the craft had died out and had to be rediscovered. Dayton noted 'polychrome faience production dies out in Egypt' after Ramesses III (CC 1198-1166BC), and did not reappear on large scale until D26 (CC c664BC) - a hiatus of c500yr. Also, tin and antimony glazes first appeared at 14thC Amarna and their next appearance was in 9thC Phoenicia.

Although unaware at that time of Velikovsky's proposed revision, Dayton suggested downdating the end of the LBA and the invasion of the Sea Peoples by some 300yr from c1200BC to c900BC.

4.6 Glazing Anomalies Resolved by the Glasgow Chronology

Bimson, in SISR 7A (1982) pointed out that a 500yr rather than the 300yr downdating mentioned by Dayton would perfectly explain Dayton's most important anomalies. Removing the 300yr gap did not solve the problem.'It removes the curious 300yr gap but replaces it with another anomaly. For it places the crude glazes of 9C immediately after the fine glazes of the Late Bronze Age (LBA) without any explanation for the sudden regression.This situation seems rather improbable.' Bimson showed that the GC gives a very good fit with the development of glazing. All the crude glazing attempts, i.e. the early D18 and the Assyrian glazes of Assurnasirpal now date from the same time - the beginning of the technique. There is no question of a gap, a regression, or a re-learning. Similarly, the GC makes the Neo-Elamite ware made of Egyptian Blue, dated 9C, contemporary with Mitannian ware with similar decorations. Dayton found 9-8C glazes from Assyria similar to LBA glazes from the Levant, and suggests 9-8C Phoenicians were trading in the same ores to produce the same glazes. Bimson said a better explanation was to lower the date of the (LBA) glazes to 9-8C. He concluded 'The facts collected by Dayton can be brought into a logical scheme when Velikovsky's D18 dates and the GC dates for D19 and D20 are applied to the relevant finds.'

In the same Review, Dayton replied to Bimson saying that, since publishing his book, he had done some further work on chronology. He fully supported Bimson's 500yr downdating, and he made two further points:-

  1. The Phoenicians did not stop making glass c14C, then start again c800BC.

Bimson, after the fall of the GC, added a later Postscript in SISR 7A saying he now preferred to go back to the original view, as suggested by Dayton in his book, that the 'gap' was around 300yr. But he accepted that Dayton's points 'do reveal certain weaknesses in the new scheme relative to the GC,' which he hoped would be discussed as the New Chronology was developed.

5. 1982-1990 - P. James, D. Rohl, and G. Heinsohn lead in New Directions.

6. The 1990's - Open Season for Revisionists.

6.3 Ages in Chaos Revisionists.

Revisionists in this group are those working on the basis that Tuthmoses III was Shishak (T3=S). This was the basis of the revisions of Velikovsky and Courville, and the T3=S equation retains significant support among others.

, after his ground-breaking, and as yet largely unchallenged analysis of the Ninsianna (Venus) Tablets and 'Star Ceilings' found in Egyptian tombs, has identified an 'Era of Disturbances' around the approximate dates 880-740BC. He continues to work on historical synchronisms around this era, and is quietly confident a solution will gradually emerge which confirms the T3=S equation, although he accepts this may take some time to achieve.

was at one time a researcher for Velikovsky, and like Eddie Schorr amassed a lot of evidence against the myth of the Greek Dark Ages. He has recently made a huge contribution to the revisionist's cause by helping to make much of Velikovsky's unpublished work available in 1999 via the Internet. In a note near the end of Velikovsky's paper on applying radiocarbon dating, he has drawn to our attention to the publication, in a Canadian Medical Journal, of the first known independent radiocarbon dating of the linen wrapping of a mummy firmly dated to the reign of Setnakht. The date obtained was 345BCE +/- 75yr.[27]

is an Australian, and a long time scholar of ancient history. While his revision has not yet been published, his papers to date clearly show support for the T3=S equation. In a recent paper in AEON, he has also shown that the archaeological evidence from Timna can be interpreted as offering support to Velikovsky's placement of Ramesses III. In a paper in C&CR 1998:1 he suggests that it is wrong to assume that Manetho's dynasties should automatically be read as being in chronological order. He promises soon to rekindle belief in Ramesses II = the Biblical Necho, and Ramesses III = the Nectanebos of Diodorus, as first proposed by Velikovsky in Rameses II and His Time and Peoples of the Sea. While hoping this may not prove 'a bridge too far', we all look forward to his next publications.

6.4. More Radical Revisionists.

For this group, either Shishak, as dated broadly by the Thiele chronology, is identified with Egyptian kings before Tuthmoses III or after Ramesses VI, or both the Egyptian and OT chronologies are revised downwards, which in turn redefines the Shishak placement.

has been one of the most prolific revisionists in recent years, producing a revision in outline book format entitled 'Concerto for History', underpinned by a huge computer spreadsheet of synchronisms and interlocking dates. While a number of articles and sections from this revision have been published, unfortunately the whole was too lengthy for the Review. His work, in which Shishak is equated with Ahmose, shows much familiarity in such areas as Calendars and Assyrian texts. He has also revised Velikovsky's Amarna synchronisms, bringing them forward to 8C, and has usefully exposed some instances where Velikovsky, by quoting selectively, used his historical sources misleadingly. His spreadsheet has unfortunately led to the identification of a 'black hole' in his revision, but hopefully further work will resolve these problems.

has made some interesting contributions recently, including taking a fresh approach to interpreting the dynastic sequences as defined by Manetho. But his recent claim that some D18 pharaohs find their alter egos as rulers in the Ptolemaic era has disturbed those SIS readers who are aware that D18 is archaeologically proven to be contemporary with the Mycenaean Age. How he intends to overcome this apparently insurmountable hurdle remains to be seen.

have not had details of their recent work published in C&CR, but the reader is referred to the 1998 Reviews for further information about these two radical revisionist's theories. Our Chairman, Trevor Palmer has taken the trouble to prepare some detailed responses that oppose the radical reductions in British AD history suggested by these authors. This was published in C&CR 1999:2.

6.5 'Significant Others'

There have been many other valuable contributors who, if they are not working on their own revisions, are certainly interested and well informed participants in the chronological debate. These include the following:

contributed two very important papers to the chronology debate. One, in SISR:4 1979, related in part to Velikovsky's inappropriate use of archaeological evidence from the Palace of Esagila at Babylon to support his suggested altered order of Neo-Babylonian kings. The other, in C&CR IX, 1987, set out in detail the several independent lines of supporting evidence, including many thousands of business documents, underpinning the conventional Mesopotamian chronology back to around 930BC. Revisionists ignore this evidence at their peril.

Many others, including Steven Robinson, Brad Aaronson, Eva Danelius, and Jeremy Goldberg in the past, and Lynn Rose and Damien Mackey at present have made, and continue to make, valuable contributions to an on-going and lively debate in the revisionist arena.

7. The Revisionist Outlook for the New Millennium.

7.4 Catastrophic Dating.

Some have tried to develop their chronologies around global catastrophes. But since the Exodus no really widespread catastrophe across many nations has been mentioned in any ancient texts. My own view is that the term catastrophe is used far too loosely, with little evidence to explain the relationship between cause and event. In an earthquake zone like the Middle East, it may be better to sort out the chronology before deciding which 'catastrophes' might have some common cause. However, others argue that without synchronism of catastrophic events the chronology cannot be resolved. The many changes in alignments seen at temple sites around the world may arguably be linked to what Reade (C&CR 1997:2) calls a 'period of disturbances' during 9-8C, possibly linked (Reade, C&CR 1996:2) to an era when the earth appears to have suffered changes to its angle of axial tilt. Also some historic sources do seem to suggest that small asteroid impact 'events' similar to that which occurred at Tunguska in Siberia in 1908 may have occurred previously in parts of the Middle East. And so the catastrophist debate continues.

7.5  Israel or Greece as the Flash Points?

In Israel, archaeologists are deeply divided over their historical heritage. Some, like Prof. Herzog according to an article in a recent Spectator [32], are denying the historical truth of the OT history, including the Sojourn, Conquest, and Solomonic eras, on the grounds that these, despite the Tel Dan stele, are not seen in the archaeological record. In contrast, Prof. Anati and R. Cohen have shown that the archaeological evidence at the end of the EBA can be interpreted to reflect very accurately the activities of Joshua during the Conquest as recorded in detail in the OT. To explain this early date Anati prefers to postulate one or two missing 'Books of the Judges Era' rather than propose a revision of the world's ancient chronology - a choice both prudent and understandable. Ironically, by denying the existence of Solomon, Herzog is also denying the existence of Pharaoh Shishak, which is the primary pillar of the conventional Egyptian chronology that led to the 'absence' of the United Monarchy kings in the first place. It was this Egyptian chronology, based on the Biblical date for Shishak, which Petrie bequeathed Palestine, along with his faulty pottery dating sequence, when he first worked for the Palestine Exploration Fund on Lachish in 1891. No wonder the Israeli archaeologists are in such disarray. They should have realised that once the Dark Ages of Greece were imposed upon the ancient world, at a stroke they would effectively wipe out all history outside Egypt for the period from 12C to 8C -- including Israel's now missing Golden Age. There are good grounds, therefore, for Israel's archaeologists to back their own historical records and declare their chronological independence. They could rescue their country's rightful heritage and historical soul by identifying a more likely Shishak for themselves, and leave the Egyptologists to sort out their own chronology problems.

Greece could also do the same. For over a hundred years they have meekly accepted Egyptian dates, along with a Dark Age that goes totally against their own archaeology and their magnificently documented classical ancient history. Athens was never conquered by the Dorians, and has its own tradition of continuous kingship. Archaeology has proved beyond all reasonable doubt that the Dark Ages did not exist. It is now time the Greek Establishment abandoned its exaggerated antiquity in favour of a continuous culture. It would, of course, require considerable courage to make a unilateral declaration of chronological independence, but courage is not a quality lacking in the historical traditions of either Greece or Israel.

7.6 The Deaf Establishment and Vested Interest.

As said in the Introduction, the control exerted by today's Establishment over what is taught, what is researched, and what is published in academic journals has never been greater. Innovators from outside academia have made many of our greatest breakthroughs in science in the past. Nowadays, however, it is much harder for outsiders to buck conventional wisdom and make real advances in our understanding of the world in which we live. The often anonymous 'peer review system' serves to maintain the status quo, but, as Dr. Thomas Gold wrote in 1989 [33], a jury system for major decisions in science would serve the public much better.

Today, judging from the ever-increasing numbers of books and TV programmes, interest in matters ancient and Egyptological has never been greater. But publishing a book on chronology problems does not mean the Establishment will take any notice of it. Turning a deaf ear is a very effective response. Can anything make them sit up and take notice? Rohl's TV programmes were the most effective yet in this area. His NC was briefly mentioned as 'trial by television' by Kitchen, and dismissed as nonsense in the latest edition of his TIP [34]. Kitchen also wrote a somewhat petulant letter to all his Establishment colleagues, in which he refers to Rohl's work as '98% rubbish.' Rohl, in JACF 8, has provided a well argued response to this letter, showing many of the arguments Kitchen used in his letter were fundamentally flawed.

James et al, using conventional archaeological interpretations as far as possible, have undoubtedly made some impact on the thinking of some mainstream archaeologists, which is a major achievement. Perhaps the beginnings of an acceptance that a 50 years reduction in Egyptian chronology may be needed means that the Establishment has started some sort of negotiating process that will eventually lead to a reduction acceptable to both parties.

But let no one be in any doubt as to the magnitude of the vested interest working against the revisionist. The careers, and reputations of the great and the good in the professions are on the line, and the consequences of accepting a major revision are enormous. Once a revised chronology is accepted, most current ancient history books and Egyptology books will have to be rewritten. So too will those that examine the early history of art, writing, literature, religion, and cultural and technological developments of every kind. New school textbooks will be needed. The history of early civilisations will have to be re-thought. Every archaeological report on every ancient site throughout the Mediterranean area and the Middle East will have to be re-examined and reinterpreted. At every ancient site, thousands of information leaflets, guidebooks, and notice boards will have to be revised. In hundreds of museums and universities around the world, and in countless private collections, hundreds of thousands of labels identifying ancient treasures and artefacts will have to be redated. And within the academia countless lecture notes, overheads, and other teaching aids will need correcting.

There will therefore be a big price tag associated with the sweeping away of nearly two centuries of erroneous dogma. Vested interest will be a powerful force for maintaining the status quo. But hopefully they will eventually be opposed by public opinion when, as taxpayers, the public and their representatives the politicians realise these establishments are misleading present and future generations, and are not delivering good value for money. Sheer weight of public opinion may yet win the day.

7.6  Proof Beyond All Reasonable Doubt

The near impossibility of forcing Establishments to accept new theories has troubled many scholars recently. In cosmology, another scientific world with which Velikovsky collided, the brilliant American astronomer Halton Arp [35] has now, by applying probability theory to his observations, proved beyond reasonable doubt that the underlying assumptions behind the concepts of the Big Bang and the Expanding Universe are wrong. Yet the vested interest in the Big Bang, and all that goes with it, is so great that still the Establishment will not accept these findings. But how could the theories and dogma of both Establishments, Cosmology and Ancient History, be so wrong for so long?

Perhaps part of the answer lies in the similarities between the two. It is interesting to compare them, to see if ancient history revisionists can learn from their counterparts in cosmology.

  1. The cosmologist develops his theories mainly from observations discovered by astronomers, while the ancient historian develops his mainly from observations, including artefacts and texts, discovered by archaeologists.

8. Concluding Comments.


New contributors to the chronological debate are always welcome, and are invited to join the SIS.


P John Crowe.
Copyright March 2001

Acknowledgements

Thanks are due to the many contributors to the pages of SIS publications, and particularly to Michael Reade for his much valued friendship and continuing support and encouragement of my efforts to achieve a better understanding of the ideas of Immanuel Velikovsky and their historical consequences.

9. References.

  1. Crowe PJ. 'Ancient History Revisions: the Last 25 years - A Perspective'. Proceedings of the 1999 SIS Jubilee Conference. C&CR 2000:1

  2. Petrie, Sir Flinders. History of Egypt Vol.1. 1896.

  3. Woolley, Sir Leonard. Ur of the Chaldees, Penguin Books 1930

  4. Newton, Sir Isaac. The original of Monarchies. Published for the first time by Manuel F.E. in his book 'Isaac Newton Historian' Cambridge University Press, 1963.

  5. Herodotus. The Histories, Penguin Books 1972

  6. Manetho, Translated by W.G.Waddell, Loeb Classical Library, 1997.

  7. Diodorus of Sicily, Books 15 and 16, Loeb Classical Library, 1995

  8. Josephus, The Works of, Translated by W Whiston. Hendrickson (paperback), 1995.

  9. Manuel F.E. 'Isaac Newton Historian' Cambridge University Press, 1963.

  10. Breasted, J.H. Ancient Records of Egypt, Vol. 1 Chicago, 1906

  11. Wunderlich, HG. The Secret of Crete, Fontana/Collins 1976

  12. Velikovsky, I. The Scandal of Enkomi, Pensée, Vol. 4 No. 5 Winter 1974-75 p21

  13. Torr, C. Memphis and Mycenae. Reprinted in ISIS Occasional Publication Series Volume 1. 1988.

  14. Freud, S. Moses and Monotheism, New York, 1939

  15. Velikovsky, I Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History, 1945. Access via the SIS Web site.

  16. Velikovsky, I. Worlds In Collision, Sidgwick and Jackson, 1950

  17. Velikovsky, I. Ages In Chaos. Sidgwick and Jackson, London, 1952, and ref. 12 below.

  18. Courville, D.A. The Exodus Problem and its Ramifications, Challenge Books, Loma Linda, California, 1971.

  19. Schorr, E.M. Applying the Revised Chronology. Pensée, IVR IX [ 1974], pp5ff.

  20. Velikovsky, I. Peoples of the Sea. Sidgwick and Jackson, London. 1977.

  21. Velikovsky, I. Rameses II and his Time, Sidgwick and Jackson, London, 1978

  22. Bietak M, 'Avaris and Piramesse: Archaeological Exploration in the Eastern Nile Delta'. Revised reprint from the Proceedings of the British Academy 65. (1979):225-96. 1986

  23. Dayton, J. Minerals, Metals, Glazing and Man. London 1978

  24. Dayton, J. The Problem of Tin in the Ancient World. World Archaeology 1971.

  25. Rohl, D.M. A Test of Time. Century Ltd. 1995.

  26. James P.J. et al, Centuries of Darkness. Jonathon Cape, London, 1991.

  27. Dr J Iles, letter, Canadian Medical Association Journal. March 1980

  28. Sweeney, E.J. The Genesis of Israel and Egypt. London 1997

  29. Sweeney, E.J. The Pyramid Age. Domra Publications, UK 1999

  30. H Jacquet-Gordon, Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, 1967

  31. Snodgrass A. M. The Dark Age of Greece [Edinburgh, 1971] p389.

  32. Manyon, J. 'It Ain't Necessarily So'. The Spectator, 6th November 1999

  33. T Gold, New Ideas in Science, Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 3, No. 2. pp. 103-112 1989.

  34. Kitchen, K. The Third Intermediate Period in Egypt (1100-650 B.C.) 2nd Rev. ed., Aris & Phillips Ltd, Warminster, England. 1995.

  35. Arp, Halton 'Seeing Red: Redshifts, Cosmology and Academic Science' Aperion, Montreal 1998

  36. Ginsberg A. Legends of the Jews, Philadelphia, 1925-38. Vol.IV, p283]

  37. Ginsberg. A. Ibid VI p307.

  38. Kitchen. K. ibid

  39. Manuel F.E. Ibid.

  40. Schliemann, Tyrins (New York, 1895) p.39.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: agesinchaos; ancienthistory; archaeoastronomy; archaeology; asteroidimpacts; astronomy; biblicalstudies; catastrophes; catastrophics; catastrophism; centuriesofdarkness; cosmology; darkageofgreece; davidrohl; donovancourville; economic; egyptianhistory; egyptology; emiliospedicato; evolution; exodus; folklore; geology; geomagnetism; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; hatshepsut; hatzor; hazor; history; historylist; hyksos; immanuelvelikovsky; interdisciplinary; letshavejerusalem; mythology; oedipusandakhnaton; palaeontology; patternsofevidence; peoplesofthesea; persepolis; physics; plasmacosmology; psychology; ramsesiiandhistime; revisedchronology; rohl; shoshenkhedjkheperre; spedicato; telhatzor; theassyrianconquest; theexodus; velikovsky; verncrisler
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To: Doc On The Bay; Swordmaker; Confederate Keyester; Aquinasfan; goody2shooz; Psalm 73; AndrewC...
FYI, a discussion I thought you might find interesting.
21 posted on 04/19/2002 8:30:51 PM PDT by medved
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To: medved
I don't think it was so much the bible versus science...
Maybe not so much, though we do know there was quite a bit of animosity there. The scopes trial was only a generation earlier to Worlds in Collision's publication.
...as the whole question of uniformity and evolution and the kinds of time requirements such doctrines have, and what Velikovsky's theses did to the dating methods which such time estimates are based on.
I remember that argument being proffered at the AAAS (in 1974?) hearing for Velikovsky. But the uniformitarian criterion for strict Darwinian evolution was already being questioned then, so the Establishment had other internal opponents to that over which they wasn't quite so much hostility. And the normal behavior that IV's thesis should have brought to bear would have been a healthy, albeit partisan and vigorous, questioning. Interdisciplinary synthesis wasn't exactly in its infancy, as it was getting quite a bit more attention outside America. Especially given the enormity of so many of IV's predictions (occurring in concert with so few misques), wouldn't the rational course have been for the best minds to inquire as to HOW he arrived at the predictions rather than attempt to leave the public (and presumably they as well) ignorant of the process?

Look, it just seemed and still seems odd. Maybe there's nothing to my conjecture -- that's why I'd like to know if anybody else tried to add beef to the idea. What raises my skepticism here was that the very nature of the opposition to I.V. Given several misrepresentations of his printed words and what appeared to be hostile ridicule by several renowned scientists, a rational review of what was going on specifically regarding Velikovsky, leaves one figuring there was some more visceral less cerebral undercurrent driving those theatrics.

Well, for what it's worth, that was my gut reaction to what I witnessed. I recall commenting: "the conduct of that inquiry was not comforting." As I still have heard (and I've heard quite a few) no sound and cohesive explanation for what transpired, my skepticism remains.

22 posted on 04/19/2002 9:05:54 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla
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To: Avoiding_Sulla
When they found out how hot Venus was, the only honorable course of action open to American academics was to line up at Velikovsky's front door to apologize. The formulation and adoption of Sagan's BS ad-hoc super-greenhouse theory will go down in the books as a disgrace and dishonor to American academia.
23 posted on 04/19/2002 9:41:50 PM PDT by medved
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To: medved
FYI, a discussion I thought you might find interesting.

Extremely! I am wading through this sea of information and have not completed the journey, but from what I have read, it appears as if Darwinian logic is not exclusively in the domain of biology. Imagine grave robbers inserting new pottery into old digs, illiterate "peasants" keeping writings as heirlooms.(obviously illiterate, they produced no writings of their own since they kept none)

His excellent paper on the archaeology of Hazor (C&CR 1996:1) revealed some important anachronisms. For example, two cuneiform tablets written in Old-Babylonian Akkadian and two more written in the Akaddian of the Amarna era were found in the upper layers of the site. Heinsohn asks 'How did tablets from the early second millennium end up in a stratum reaching its peak in the period of the Persian Empire (550-330 BC)?'. The tablets were, of course, immediately labelled 'heirlooms' by their finders. But, as Heinsohn pointed out, it seems strange that the later Hazoreans kept tablets for over 1000yr as heirlooms from the MBA or LBA, yet were apparently incapable of producing any texts of their own. ---- Darwinian evolution---Archaeopteryx 150my old, Velociraptor 80my old

I'll keep reading, this is very entertaining!

24 posted on 04/20/2002 12:03:29 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: VadeRetro
FYI, a discussion you might find interesting...
25 posted on 04/20/2002 9:16:27 AM PDT by medved
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To: medved
This is going to be a long read. One thing I noticed already:

As a result, the pharaohs of the 18th Dynasty (D18), which most famously include Queen Hatshepsut and Tutankhamun, are made too ancient by around 500 years.

A line of reasoning that actually has some evidence behind it says that Hat and Tut have been made too recent by maybe 200 years. In particular, the Nile delta ashfalls from the volcanic explosion of Thera contain artifacts from about the reign of Hatshepsut and her successor Thutmosis III.

The conventional dating of this event is circa 1450 BC, but California bristlecone pine tree-ring data--a pinched ring from a very dark, cold year--says the likeliest event to be Thera was in the 1600s BC. One caution in the above: I'm remembering from Charles Pellegrino's Unearthing Atlantis, a book I gave away some years ago.

26 posted on 04/20/2002 9:35:15 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: medved
In defence of Apion's claim that the Jews were a young people, Josephus (c80AD) [8], a Jewish historian under the Roman Empire, wrote his famous historical essay 'Contra Apion' . . .

Nah! Look up "contra." This guy's a piker.

Josephus attacked Apion.

27 posted on 04/20/2002 9:49:28 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: medved
The ancient Greek and Roman historians, not surprisingly, knew nothing of these ancient peoples. Sumerian, said Heinsohn, 'is the language of the well known Kassite/Chaldeans, whose literacy deserves its fame'.

Heinsohn is a psychoceramic's psychoceramic. The Sumerian language is of a completely unknown family and was only deciphered because the conquering Semitic Akkadians--illiterate nomads who depended at first on the conquered Sumerians for record-keeping--made dictionaries to train their own scribes.

The Chaldeans, by comparison, are late-comers to the region. The biblical term "Ur of the Chaldees" is anachronistic, evidence for a late writing.

28 posted on 04/20/2002 10:14:00 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: medved
All the background you'll ever need: Translating Elvis into Sumerian.
29 posted on 04/20/2002 10:46:37 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Oops! I meant This Page.
30 posted on 04/20/2002 10:56:56 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Avoiding_Sulla;medved
A lot of interesting stuff here, but I am essentially a consumer of tertiary sources, so am not in a position to have a worthwhile opinion of most of the specifics.

As a general point, we have here examples of a problem of the extension of scientific knowledge and education of the public. As information is obtained, theories are derived to explain them. Those who derive these theories have an interest in maintaining them, making scholarship naturally conservative, which is a good thing -- you don't want to throw out everything you know because of a single new datum. As new information accumulates, eventually a new way of explaining the total sum of material comes to be accepted, this phenomenon is Alvin Toffler's famous 'paradigm shift'.

At the same time there is a need for the public to be educated in the various fields of knowledge, and naturally this education should be the best accepted information. The problem is that often an exaggerated authority is given to the material presented, that what is the current theory is presented as if it had been proven definitively, that alternative ideas should be considered as believing in a 'flat earth'. Perhaps it is because of the similarity in background of the sorts of people who would have been educated to be preachers in the past and are now trained as scientists.

To be specific about this material, I think that a lot of it plays a little fast and loose with what has been observed in physics and astronomy. It does seem clear that there are severe problems with chronology in history earlier than the classical period, but think that disposing of the Sumerian civilization and the Hittite Empire will require a lot more evidence than is presented here.

31 posted on 04/20/2002 6:22:36 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; vannrox
Just adding this to the GGG homepage, not sending a general distribution.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.

32 posted on 07/20/2004 10:48:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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33 posted on 03/26/2006 9:04:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Yes indeed, Civ updated his profile and links pages again, on Monday, March 6, 2006.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

34 posted on 09/22/2006 11:04:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Saturday, September 16, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: vannrox

WHy didn't you invite us to read the book instead of taking up so much bad width?


35 posted on 09/22/2006 11:41:49 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: vannrox

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
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Just updating the info, not sending a general distribution.
 
Catastrophism
 
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To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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36 posted on 10/27/2009 8:06:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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Just a ping list message update.


37 posted on 05/27/2013 12:36:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks again, vannrox.

Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


38 posted on 05/27/2013 12:36:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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39 posted on 12/28/2015 7:14:26 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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40 posted on 12/28/2015 7:14:39 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Here's to the day the forensics people scrape what's left of Putin off the ceiling of his limo.)
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