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A Catholic Moment of Truth
Boston Globe ^ | 10/03/05 | James Carroll

Posted on 10/03/2005 5:55:50 AM PDT by marshmallow

TO BE A Roman Catholic in Rome this week is to remember, among so much else, the way in which leaders of this church have squandered their moral authority in recent years.

In 1968, it was the disastrous anti-birth control encyclical ''Humanae Vitae," which opened a gulf between the hierarchy and the laity and which lately has the church on the wrong side of the global fight against HIV/AIDS. The coterie of American bishops chosen by Pope John Paul II failed their greatest test by protecting abusive priests instead of the children who were their victims. Now, church authority stands on the edge of yet another act of moral self-mutilation with a coming ''instruction" banning homosexuals from seminaries. Such a policy threatens to turn an imminent program of ''apostolic visitations" of US seminaries, which overtly targets ''heresy," into a full blown sexual witch hunt.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have had direct and indirect contact with well-connected Catholics here -- hardly a hotbed of liberalism -- and the coming instruction is regarded as a catastrophe in the making. With boards of Vatican-appointed investigators poised to swoop down on American schools in which new priests are trained, interrogations of candidates and loyalty tests for teachers already betray a nostalgia for the bygone era of thought-control and snitching. A formally licensed obsession with homosexuality will push the investigation into a realm, as one senior priest put it to me, more of Joseph Stalin than Jesus Christ.

Instead of asking hard questions about the root causes of the priestly sex abuse scandal -- facing problems of the clerical culture itself, including celibacy, authoritarianism, discrimination against women, the immaturity of church teachings on sexuality -- Rome is preparing to scapegoat homosexuals.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS:
Today's papers are full of editorials trashing the seminary visitations. I've posted a couple but there are many more.

Anyone without blood pressure issues should go HERE to read more of them.

1 posted on 10/03/2005 5:55:51 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Go Pope Benny Go! I love to see the enemies of the Church get upset, it's a sign we're doing something right.


2 posted on 10/03/2005 6:00:28 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: marshmallow
The solution is clear: Catholics should renounce the Catholic faith. They should reject anything that comes out of the Vatican, and they should all send money to the Workers of the World.

Then James Carroll will say they are on the right track.

3 posted on 10/03/2005 6:02:58 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: marshmallow
TO BE A Roman Catholic in Rome this week is to remember, among so much else, the way in which leaders of this church have squandered their moral authority in recent years.

Then it's probably a good thing you're not a Roman Catholic, James Carroll. We wouldn't want you to get upset.

5 posted on 10/03/2005 6:29:05 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When bad things happen, conservatives get over it!)
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To: marshmallow
I cannot image a more bigoted and insulting commentary than the one written above. Mr. Carroll's position is that the Catholic Church does not have the freedom to define its own doctrines and discipline. If someone, gay or straight, does not accept Church teaching he has no right to be a priest.

The vocabulary that he uses is deliberately inflammatory and seeks to paint the Church in the most negative stereotypes possible. I also find it quite hypocritical. Where was Mr. Carroll in defending the persecution and marginalization of conservative and traditionally minded priests and seminarians by the liberals during the past forty years?

6 posted on 10/03/2005 6:36:07 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Disclaimer: James Carroll is a former priest.


7 posted on 10/03/2005 6:48:43 AM PDT by Pio (He who has not Mary for a Mother, has not God for a Father.)
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To: Pio

Former preist in boston supporting the homo lifestyle and culture of death, makes one wonder why he is a former


8 posted on 10/03/2005 6:57:45 AM PDT by vrwc0915
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To: marshmallow
Humph. Memo from Virginia to mister James Carroll:

Mr. Carroll, you have all the sense of the southbound end of a northbound mule!
9 posted on 10/03/2005 7:59:05 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Not a nickel, not a dime, no more money for Hamastine!)
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To: Petrosius
Mr. Carroll's position is that the Catholic Church does not have the freedom to define its own doctrines and discipline.

Recall that Mr. (Fr., since he's "a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek", laicized or not?) Carroll is the author of Constantine's Sword, which is not only an historically innacurate diatribe against the Church, but ends with a prescription of "reform" which would transmute Her into something not recognizably Christian. So he's just being self-consistent. Which is to say consistently wrong. Naturally, that makes him the darling of the Globe, which is owned by and to Left of the New York Times. Having lived in the Boston Archdiocese for 25 years now, I can tell you that the paper's primary utility is for wrapping fish, lining the budgie's cage, and starting up the wood stove.

I also find it quite hypocritical.

Imagine that! The Globe was only too happy to foment hysteria concerning "pedophile" (actually pederast) priests, and now it denounces the preliminary steps of the Vatican needed to actually address the objective causes of the problem. Do you suppose their motivations just might not be entirely above-board? Like, perhaps, that "the scandal" was mostly a political vehicle by which to discredit the moral authority of the Church in advance of the approval of gay "marriage" in Our Benighted Commonwealth? Or unethical stem-cell research? Or right-to-die legislation? No, perish the thought! Advocates of the Culture of Death would never resort to demagoguery to achieve their nefarious goals, would they?

10 posted on 10/03/2005 8:01:24 AM PDT by neocon (Be not afraid!)
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To: neocon
Recall that Mr. (Fr., since he's "a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek", laicized or not?) Carroll is the author of Constantine's Sword,

Thought I recognized the name. Has he written anything else? Haven't read C. Sword, because I prefer to stick to history rather than editorials.

11 posted on 10/03/2005 9:14:33 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: marshmallow

If Carroll would reread Humanae Vitae, he would realize that Pope Paul VI was an astute prophet. All of the cautionary statements in the encyclical have come true. I remember how all the secularists declared that Pope Paul VI was a nut case to predict such dire warnings against the decoupling of the sex act from procreation. PPVI said that homosexuality would come to be declared normal sexual activity as well as abortion on demand and the lessening of the importance of marriage. Since birth control became the rule of life for most of humanity, the linking of sex with procreation, love and marriage has come full circle. The only purpose of sex has become enjoyment as a recreation. There is no longer any significance of the sacredness and power of the act within marriage which brings forth children.

The result is all sorts of dysfunctional behavior, rampant sexually-transmitted diseases, broken homes, impoverished children, etc..

I wish people like Carroll would really read the encyclical in light of a history of about 40 years since its publication. He might actually have to pause and admire PPVI instead of trashing him.


12 posted on 10/03/2005 9:26:22 AM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Gumdrop
Indeed.

Carroll, as an ex-priest, has an axe to grind with the Church, and re-reading the Pope's encyclical would be unlikely to open his eyes, I fear.

Time has made many of the '60s and '70s radicals older, grayer, but not wiser. They're still having an "authority problem".

13 posted on 10/03/2005 9:42:37 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Pio; Petrosius
Disclaimer: James Carroll is a former priest.

Well. At least the hierarchy got one thing right. They didn't buckle in the face of complete heresy.

And as to all the bishops who failed to protect the children being JP II appointees; I think that statement contradicts the facts.

14 posted on 10/03/2005 9:58:54 AM PDT by siunevada
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To: marshmallow

Mr. Carroll,

Homosexual predation caused the Scandal. Not the celibacy rule, not the male-only priesthood.

Oh, and BTW, there is NOthing stopping good men who want to serve Christ with their lives, from doing so.

Priesthood is not required.


15 posted on 10/03/2005 10:15:51 AM PDT by BizzeeMom
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To: The Old Hoosier

I used to say at work " If someone is not ticked off about what I am doing, I am not doing my job right" Since my job consisted of making sure certain building codes were met on submitted plans and any rejection meant a delay. You can bet people did get ticked off. Now I could have kept everybody happy and passed whatever and whichever was submitted with nary a backward glance. But that would not have been serving the public very well.
The Pope is not here to make the likes of James Carroll happy. He is the Vicar of Christ who is charged with the safe guarding of our souls. I am not totally convinced that banning even those with SSA is going to be the best long term solution to the sex abuse crisis. But I sure think it will work in the short term till we see a major reform of the seminaries.
As for Carroll's remark about HIV/AIDs. Please explain why the rates of AIDS is so high. in Countries with free access to condoms and to sex education. USA, comes to mind.


16 posted on 10/03/2005 11:20:23 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: marshmallow
Like these?

Vatican to Start U.S. Seminary Evaluations
Apostolic Seminary Visitation To Begin This Fall
U.S. Bishops to Begin Inspecting Seminaries
Prelate Says Gays Shouldn't Be Ordained
American overseeing Vatican evaluation of US seminaries says gays should not be ordained

Vatican to Check U.S. Seminaries on Gay Presence
POPE APPROVES BARRING GAY SEMINARIANS
Pope bans homosexuals from ordination as priests
Questions Arise Over Seminary Inspections
New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests

New Vatican Rule Said to Bar Gays as New Priests (ABOUT TIME)
VATICAN: HOMOSEXUALS ARE NOT TO BE ORDAINED AS CATHOLIC PRIESTS
Homosexuals in the seminary; A Global Church in a Globalized World
Gay Men Ponder Impact of (Anti-Gay Clergy)Proposal by Vatican(Barf Alert)
Aquinas Seminary is First for Scrutiny

Vatican Begins Inspections At St. Louis Seminary (Rector: No homosexuality-pedophilia link)
The Sins of the Seminaries
Notre Dame Experts React to Potential Seminary Rules
Seminary Reviews Not Just About Homosexuality, Says Prelate
Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays

Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
Jesuit official protesting expected Vatican ban on gay priests
A Catholic Moment of Truth

17 posted on 10/03/2005 12:03:29 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ClearCase_guy

That will not happen. The Catholic Church is the ONLY church that has the four marks of the true Church;
One
Holy
Catholic
Apostolic

Or are you just trying bash Catholics in general here?


18 posted on 10/03/2005 12:05:46 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
Whoa! Many apologies to you! I meant completly the opposite!

I think Carroll is no fan of Catholics and he will only have a kind word to say if Catholics stop being Catholics.

I was attempting to poke fun at his unreasonable expectations. Guess I failed to make myself clear. Again: Apologies to you and any others I offended.

19 posted on 10/03/2005 12:17:32 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: ClearCase_guy

OK, I was wondering where the (Barf Alert) was on the article. MY apologies to you.


20 posted on 10/03/2005 12:41:27 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: marshmallow

Oh, drop dead, James Carroll.


21 posted on 10/03/2005 12:44:57 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: marshmallow

The only thing catastrophic about Humanae Vitae is that the CLERGY refused to support it, not the laity. I can still remember hearing sermons about how ridiculous it was. The "fresh new spring" of the Church had been blowing about for a couple of years then, and clearly many of the clergy - who had always been dissidents, but quiet about it - thought that their moment had arrived.


22 posted on 10/03/2005 12:46:06 PM PDT by livius
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To: Pio

'Former priest' -- well, now, isn't THAT an interesting bit of information??? hahaha. The former priest I know is a "Vat 3" sort.


23 posted on 10/03/2005 4:05:25 PM PDT by bboop (Facts are your friend.)
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To: marshmallow

Yes, the 60s and 70s radical priests are still rebellious and filled with Pride of Self. tsk tsk tsk.


24 posted on 10/03/2005 4:06:47 PM PDT by bboop (Facts are your friend.)
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To: marshmallow

Bumping for future reference.


25 posted on 10/14/2005 11:27:40 PM PDT by tuesday afternoon (Everything happens for a reason. - 40 and 43)
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