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Outing Cardinal Egan (priest now outing the bishops)
Village Voice ^ | February 7, 2006 | Kristen Lombardi

Posted on 02/07/2006 1:13:07 PM PST by NYer

Who knows whether Cardinal Edward Egan is sleeping soundly these days. But as head of the New York archdiocese—as the top Roman Catholic prelate in the state—he'd have every reason to be restless after the recent advent of a little-noticed lawsuit.

The suit, now pending in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, was filed on December 13 by Bob Hoatson—a 53-year-old New Jersey priest considered a stalwart ally among survivors of sexual abuse by clergy. Hoatson, the now-suspended chaplain for Catholic Charities in Newark, is suing Egan and nine other Catholic officials and institutions, claiming a pattern of "retaliation and harassment" that began after Hoatson alleged a cover-up of clergy abuse in New York and started helping victims.

But that's not all his lawsuit claims. Halfway through the 44-page complaint, the priest-turned-advocate drops a bomb on the cardinal: He alleges that Egan is "actively homosexual," and that he has "personal knowledge of this." His suit names two other top Catholic clerics in the region as actively gay—Albany bishop Howard Hubbard and Newark archbishop John Myers.

It's not that Hoatson has a problem with, as the suit puts it, "consensual, adult private sexual behavior by these defendants."

No, what Hoatson claims is that, as leaders of a church requiring celibacy and condemning homosexuality, actively gay bishops are too afraid of being exposed themselves to turn in pedophile priests. The bishops' closeted homosexuality, as the lawsuit states, "has compromised defendants' ability to supervise and control predators, and has served as a reason for the retaliation."

Hoatson realizes what he's up against. "I stopped and I thought long and hard about these allegations," he says. "It's time the church confronts this dysfunction. I couldn't do this outside of filing a lawsuit. The only thing the church responds to is negative publicity or a lawsuit. If I kept trying to do this within the system, I would be gone."

The case hinges on several statutory and legal claims. It argues that Egan and the other bishops retaliated against Hoatson for being a whistle-blower, that they intended to harm him and his career, and that they engaged in a conspiracy to do so.

Joseph Zwilling, Egan's spokesperson, denies the allegations, saying, "There is no truth to any of the statements he has made concerning Cardinal Egan." His counterpart in the Newark archdiocese, James Goodness, calls the charges "patently untrue." Goodness has released a four-page statement painting Hoatson, an archdiocesan priest in good standing until he was placed on administrative leave, as "a troubled individual" who bagged his parish duties to minister to victims.

In February 2004, Andrew Zalay came forward with the first of what would become a flurry of allegations that Bishop Howard Hubbard, head of the Albany diocese, had had homosexual encounters. Flanked by his Manhattan attorney, John Aretakis, Zalay told reporters at a press event that he'd discovered the 1978 suicide note of his brother, Tom, who had written about a sexual relationship with the bishop in the '70s.

That announcement set off a chain of events ending with the so-called White Report, the findings of a private investigation requested by Hubbard and commissioned by diocese's lay review board. Former U.S. prosecutor Mary Jo White, whose name carries great credibility, was paid $770 an hour by the diocese for her four-month inquiry, consisting of 300 interviews, 20,000 records, and exonerating lie-detector tests on Hubbard and eight other priests and former priests. The following is a road map of the 525-page report's contents:

THE ALLEGATIONS:

• Hubbard had a sexual affair with Tom Zalay in the late '70s.

• Hubbard paid a teenage street hustler for sex in the late '70s.

• Hubbard had homosexual affairs with three Albany priests.

• Hubbard had patronized gay bars.

• Hubbard had engaged in gay sexual activity in Albany's Washington Park.

THE CONCLUSIONS:

• White found "no credible evidence" to substantiate the charges that Hubbard had homosexual relations with Zalay, the street hustler, or the three priests.

• She found "no credible evidence" that Hubbard "ever led a homosexual lifestyle or engaged in homosexual relations at any time."

• She determined similar charges "could be expected to emerge" again, and warned they "should be met with considerable skepticism."

• White said Aretakis had a habit of forcing his clients to sign false statements.

• Aretakis says he's "never told a client to lie or offer up a false statement, nor would I ever do that." He has denounced the report as not being neutral because White was hired by the lay board to investigate its boss—Hubbard. He and his clients refused to cooperate with her because, he argues, "She had a classic and a substantial conflict of interest."


White, for her part, did not return the Voice's phone call. In February 2004, when she announced the start of the investigation, she laid out the reasons she could remain independent—for instance, she is not Catholic, had never met Hubbard, and had never represented him or the Albany diocese before. Asked about the appearance of a conflict, she said, "There is not a chance at all that I would undertake this [in] other than a totally independent way, and the money is totally irrelevant to that independence."

Four months later, she received $2.2 million for the project. Hubbard got his name cleared.

"If anyone should have been pitied during Fr. Hoatson's parish assignments," Goodness writes in the December 14 statement, "it probably would have to be the pastors who had to put up with . . . Fr. Hoatson's 'malingering'—shirking one's duty."

Hubbard spokesperson Kenneth Goldfarb has lashed out at the priest's Manhattan lawyer, John Aretakis, a leading foe of the bishop who has represented 100 or so people claiming they were molested by Albany clergymen (see "Who Would Take a Case Like This?"). "This is not the first time Mr. Aretakis has made those allegations," Goldfarb says, pinning the charge about Hubbard's alleged homosexuality on the lawyer, not his client. "This is all orchestrated by Mr. Aretakis. He has a long history of coming up with claims that have no basis in fact."

Two years ago, a flurry of allegations that Hubbard had sexual relationships with several men, including a teenage street hustler and three diocesan priests, rocked local churches. Hubbard, who denied the charges, called for an investigation, and his handpicked lay review board hired Mary Jo White, a respected former federal prosecutor in Manhattan. White was paid $2.2 million for a four-month inquiry that ended up clearing Hubbard of all accusations (see "About That White Report"). Aretakis represented the two main accusers.

Aretakis puts little credence in the investigation, calling it "the most expensive piece of fiction ever produced." He denounced White for essentially investigating her own client, and he and his clients refused to cooperate.

Now that similar allegations are written in a lawsuit, the landscape has changed. Now, Aretakis has the platform to try to prove them—and he says he's prepared to do it. He says he's accumulated a list of priests and witnesses who have agreed to provide "firsthand evidence of the sexual proclivities" of Egan, Hubbard, and Myers, if subpoenaed. Some have written statements relaying "homosexual relationships with these bishops," he maintains; others know people who have had the affairs.

Aretakis declined to show the Voice any written documentation on the three bishops, saying, "I don't want to reveal my hand at a time when I don't need to." He describes the evidence against Egan and Myers as involving consensual contact with adult men. Egan has a sporadic history of gay affairs, Aretakis claims, most of them dating back to his time as a seminarian. The lawyer alleges Myers has had gay affairs more recently, some within the past five years.

For Hubbard, it's a different story. On the condition that his clients' identities be shielded, Aretakis allowed the Voice to view videotaped interviews with two men who allege they had sex with Hubbard for money as troubled teens, one in the 1970s, one in the early 1980s. Neither was included in the White investigation, though their allegations do resemble ones it ruled unfounded.

One of the men is now in prison and couldn't be reached before press time. The other, reached through Aretakis, told the Voice independently that the details on the tape are true and that he gave the testimony of his own free will. Now married and living upstate, he has sought help from Aretakis for a potential abuse case against an Albany priest who he says also paid him for sex and introduced him to Hubbard. He says he may sue Hubbard as well.

Goldfarb, Hubbard's spokeperson, refused to let the Voice speak to the bishop about the tapes. "He's been through the mill with this and there's no reason to go through any of this again," he said. Goldfarb again cited the White report, which he said fully cleared Bishop Hubbard. Allegations like these aren't unexpected, he said—indeed, the report predicted there would be more and advised viewing them with considerable skepticism. Read the report, he said, over and over, adding, "It's as if all this preponderance of evidence is being weighed against two people who haven't filed a lawsuit and who won't identify themselves at this time."


It's people like these two men, victims who are struggling to seek justice from the Catholic Church, whom Hoatson says he's aiming to help with his lawsuit. He's asking the courts for $5 million in damages, which he says he'd use for a 24-hour victims' ministry. The suit hinges on alleged harm done to him as a whistle-blower, but he says the real issue is that the bishops' sexual activities have compromised their ability to police predators.

"I have to tell the truth," he says. "I've gotten enough information to indicate that promiscuity on the part of these bishops is the reason they're covering up clergy abuse."

Whether his claims are true or not, Hoatson is making history. Richard Sipe, a former priest and scholar who has written about clergy sexual abuse and homosexuality in the Catholic Church, explains that it's rare for a priest to sue a bishop in court for retaliation—he has heard of only one case before this. It's almost unthinkable for a priest to say in court records that three of his area's top bishops are actively gay.

"That's a very significant move," Sipe says. Such he-said, he-said allegations can be near impossible to prove in any case, let alone when the subjects are powerful and respected church leaders. But, he adds, "even saying it in a lawsuit will force the subject of the bishops' sexuality out in the open."

And that could spark something of a revolution. Says Sipe, "This lawsuit could be the beginning of a movement."

Hoatson comes across as an unlikely revolutionary. He looks nothing like a Catholic priest, dressed on a recent Tuesday in jeans and a sweater. The wardrobe isn't by choice. Four days after he filed the suit, Newark archdiocesan officials put him on leave. Though he still gets his $1,700 monthly stipend, he's prohibited from presenting "himself publicly as a priest," as the December 20 decree states. He can no longer wear his collar or say Mass at the two parishes where he works.

Sitting in a coffee shop on Astor Place, he talks for hours about the way religion has colored his life—the way he'd had a "mystical experience" at 13 in which he saw himself as a priest, for instance. By 18, he'd entered the Christian Brothers order of monks, where he would teach in parochial schools for two decades. He felt so drawn to the priesthood that he enrolled in the seminary in 1994, at 42.

"I was called to the priesthood by God," he explains. "I never really understood why."

Hoatson believes he got that reason in the winter of 2002, when the clergy-abuse scandal exploded in Boston and across the country, in dioceses from California to Kentucky to New Hampshire and Iowa. Back then, Hoatson was serving as school director at Our Lady of Good Counsel Parish, in Newark, watching the crisis unfold on TV. He got word of a victim going public with charges that a Boston monsignor had molested him in the 1980s. The victim turned out to be Hoatson's former student; the official, a former school chaplain.

Hoatson called his onetime student, and soon was making regular trips from Newark to Boston, helping the man come to grips with the trauma of abuse. When other victims came forward, he hooked them up with lawyers or escorted them to confront dioceses. Word spread among survivors in New York and New Jersey about the generous priest. Hoatson has rescued victims from heroin dens; visited them in prison; collected them from shelters; paid their rent. Last year, he set up a ministry known as Rescue and Recovery International out of his Rockaway Park, Queens, apartment.

"He's like a guiding light," says Richard Regan, of Rochester, New York, who says a now-deceased Queens priest molested him and his five siblings in the '50s. Ken Lasch, a retired priest in the Patterson, New Jersey, diocese, calls Hoatson "a locomotive—in the lead and full speed ahead." Hoatson would think nothing of letting predatory priests know he's watching, Lasch says. "Bob is that type of person. Once he sees corruption, he goes after it."

Hoatson puts it another way: "This has become a mission for me."

His work has made him wrestle with his own experiences of sexual abuse. As a 22-year-old seminarian in the Christian Brothers, he says, another brother repeatedly molested him over a four-year period. Several years later, he confided in his superior, who Hoatson says assaulted him as well. "I knew it was abuse," he says, but he never identified it as such until years later. Now, he counts himself among a handful of priests who've named their alleged abusers; his lawsuit recounts what he says is molestation he suffered at hands of the two brothers in the '70s and '80s.

What finally triggered his suit was Hoatson's fear that he'd be stopped from working with victims. On May 20, 2003, according to the lawsuit, he testified at an Albany hearing sponsored by the New York State Senate. There, he criticized Catholic bishops for shielding predatory priests. That's exactly what happened in Boston, where the release of internal church documents revealed how Cardinal Bernard Law and his underlings had shuffled pedophiles from parish to parish for decades, covering up abuse while putting children at risk. Bishops who engaged in this practice, Hoatson testified that day, had "selected evil over good, denial over admission, lying over truth-telling."

Three days later, he was relieved of his duties as Good Counsel Parish school director. Hoatson contends that Newark officials told him, as he recalls, "The archbishop [Myers] has asked that you tone down your language." They handed him a termination letter.

His suit claims that Hubbard dialed up Hoatson's boss to complain and, as it states, "had the plaintiff fired from his position." It charges that Egan and his representatives "contributed and became involved in retaliation" as well.

Church officials deny these allegations. "Cardinal Egan did not nor did anyone representing the New York archdiocese ever contact the Newark archdiocese about Father Hoatson," Zwilling says. Goldfarb says that "nothing of consequence" connects Hubbard and the Albany diocese to Hoatson's firing. "There is nothing to this," he adds.

Goodness, Myers's spokesperson, maintains that Hoatson was removed from his school post solely because he'd asked to be transferred seven months earlier. By February, the archdiocese had accepted his request. "This preceded by months any comments he would make to the New York legislature," Goodness argues.

Yet only after the Albany testimony did Hoatson receive a formal letter letting him go, "effective immediately." It would take another eight months before Myers reassigned the priest to the Catholic Charities chaplaincy, in early 2004.

The hiatus allowed Hoatson to pursue his work with victims full-time, and he championed their cause at demonstrations, in letters to the editor, before area bishops. At Catholic Charities, he said Mass for employees and did routine parish work, all while keeping up his crusade. He says he'd managed to fulfill his ministry without much interference from the archdiocese until November 2005, when Myers issued a "precept" binding Hoatson to certain conditions. The document orders him "to cease activity in his own business"—his victims' ministry—and "to show proper reverence and obedience to his ordinary."

Goodness says the archbishop handed down the precept because "Father Hoatson had not been adhering to conditions of priesthood." The priest, he notes, resides in Queens even though he's required to live within the archdiocesan district. Hoatson says he doesn't feel safe in his assigned residence because of the alleged harassment.

He isn't the only one who believes he's being treated differently. Lasch, a lawyer trained in church canon law who has advised his fellow priest, says, "The diocese has exhibited a pattern of prejudicial treatment against Bob." He adds, "I see it as making it difficult for him to do his work."

Either way, Hoatson thinks he knows what's up. "I have to be gotten rid of because I'm trying to break the cycle of sexual disorder in the church," he explains. The disorder includes what he describes as "a promiscuous homosexual culture" perpetuating the cover-up of clergy sexual abuse. Egan, Hubbard, and Myers have hidden predatory priests because they're hiding their own gay activities, he charges.

To stop the abuse, he says, "you have to admit what is going on in the church with its homosexual culture."


What Hoatson is saying is, in many ways, nothing new. Speculation over homosexual bishops has circulated among the Catholic faithful for decades.

The topic remained largely off-limits—until the clergy-abuse crisis. That's when a loose network of victims' advocacy and church-reform groups sprang up, demanding accountability and pressing for change. Not only has this survivors' movement encouraged people to come forward and tell their stories, but it has also pushed the church to acknowledge the scale of clergy sexual abuse. To date, according to the Catholic bishops' own figures, 9,660 people nationwide since 1950 have accused 4,089 priests of molesting them. In New York City, 140 victims have named 49 abusive priests; in Albany, it's 141 and 69 respectively.

Among those who've tracked the crisis, it's not hard to find people who believe that the reason some bishops have shielded predatory priests is that they fear exposure of their own sexual activities. Anne Barrett Doyle, of BishopAccountability.org, a nonprofit archive documenting the clergy-abuse crisis, explains that this belief "is widely accepted by activists and scholars and for good reason." Recent cases have shed light on abusive bishops who, in turn, had covered up for others, she points out.

Consider, for example, the case of Bishop Thomas Dupre, of Springfield, Massachusetts. In March 2004, he abruptly retired and fled his diocese when confronted with allegations that he'd molested two men decades earlier. Until then, Dupre had been the target of fierce criticism for his handling of some 14 accused priests, many of whom held powerful positions as his underlings.

Hoatson supporters consider his lawsuit—and his outing of purportedly gay bishops—a logical step in the fight for accountability. For Catholic leaders may have acknowledged that abusive priests preyed upon children for decades, but they haven't owned up to their complicity. "Personally," says Maria Cleary, of New Jersey Voice of the Faithful, a church-reform group that has worked with Hoatson, "I feel some things just need to be said at this point. There comes a point in any change process when you have to start pushing the envelope."

Pat Serrano, of Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, seconds that: "You need to express yourself loudly to get the church's attention."

If victims and their allies feel more emboldened to question bishops' sexuality, it may be because the church has raised the issue all on its own. Last November, the Vatican handed down a document known as the "Congregation for Catholic Education," in which it denounced homosexuality as "intrinsically immoral" and "disordered." It suggested that homosexual men cannot be celibate, and banned formerly active gay seminarians from ordination.

Sipe, the author and scholar, says the Vatican document "has opened up the question of sexual orientation among the priesthood," including the hierarchy. And it's set the stage for a potential backlash, incensing gay priests and causing Catholic faithful to think twice about the church's hypocrisy. For years, gay Catholic groups like Dignity USA have refused to call gay bishops on it, keeping an anti-outing policy.

"There's conflict in the gay community with the idea of outing a bishop," he says. Indeed, he says one Dignity leader showed him a private list of 142 bishops who are purportedly homosexual. Some are celibate, others not. But nothing has ever come of it.

The Vatican's antics on homosexuality could change all that. Michael Mendola, of Dignity New York, the local chapter, says gay priests have kept their mouths shut about bishops' sex lives because they "don't want to jeopardize their relationships with the dioceses." But he knows plenty of good, caring gay priests who, in his words, "are tired of all the nonsense going on in the church with homosexuality these days." They're tired of the way the Vatican has pinned blame for the clergy-abuse crisis on homosexuals. And the way far-right Catholic groups have tried to purge the church of gays.

Some may grow so tired of being persecuted that they could break the veil of silence. Once news of Hoatson's lawsuit gets out, Sipe predicts, "I think others may follow."

Whether that happens remains to be seen, of course. In the meantime, Hoatson's suit must make its way through the courts. Attorneys for Egan, Hubbard, and Myers did not return a phone call from the Voice seeking comment for this article. But letters they sent to U.S. District Court judge Paul Crotty, who is presiding over the case, suggest that they intend to try to dismiss it on legal grounds. As Daniel Alonso, the Manhattan attorney who represents Egan and the New York archdiocese, writes in his January 19 letter, "We propose to move to dismiss the complaint for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted."

Hoatson's suit could well get quashed before it ever reaches an open courtroom. Yet in the court of public opinion, he may already be winning. Survivors, at least, are rallying around the priest, cheering him on in listservs and Internet discussion boards, lauding him as courageous beyond belief. "Father Bob is no dummy," says Regan. "He's a priest who has a lot to lose by coming forward with this suit."

And that's just what worries some of his allies who think he's crossed a line. They fear his allegations against the bishops may backfire, undermining his credibility and, worse, his victims' ministry. One fellow clergyman doesn't doubt that the bishops have targeted Hoatson for whistle-blowing. But he can't quite wrap his mind around why the priest decided to bring the bishops' sexuality into the mix. "Once you make those claims, there is no turning back," the cleric says.

To Hoatson, though, it comes down to the truth. All he wants is to save his church, he says, and sometimes, you have to destroy something in order to rebuild it.

"I answer to a higher authority, and this is what God has asked me to do," he says. "God is calling on me to dismantle the insanity and corruption."


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; History; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: abusivepriests; albany; archbishopmyers; archdiocese; bishophubbard; cardinalegan; corruption; diocese; eagan; homosexualagenda; homosexualpriests; hubbard; myers; newark; newjersey; newyork; nj; ny; nyc; villagevoice
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1 posted on 02/07/2006 1:13:12 PM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

Now we're hitting closer to home :-)


2 posted on 02/07/2006 1:13:46 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: All
See also the following related article.

Who Would Take a Case Like This? - Someone Mad as Hell, That's Who

3 posted on 02/07/2006 1:24:06 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


4 posted on 02/07/2006 1:28:26 PM PST by Coleus (IMHO, The IVF procedure is immoral & kills many embryos/children and should be outlawed)
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To: NYer
I know both of us pray every day, at Mass, for Edward, Cardinal Egan. I honestly pray that justice, tempered with mercy, is done in this situation. May the Lord bless all His clergy including Bob Hoatson.
5 posted on 02/07/2006 1:30:43 PM PST by Talking_Mouse (Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: NYer

Hoatson undermines himself by not admitting that the predators are themselves mostly homosexuals, so the bishops would be protecting their own, so to speak.


6 posted on 02/07/2006 1:31:42 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: NYer

A campaign is off to destroy the Church and intimidate into silence orthodox Catholics who are working for reform and change.

If these allegations are proven true, church authorities may have walked right into this one and become co-responsible for the implosion, having provided the enemies of the Church with plenty of ammunition to bring her down.

I pray to the Lord that these allegations are not true, for the sake of the Catholic faithful of said dioceses.

-Theo


7 posted on 02/07/2006 1:35:28 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: NYer

lance the boil


8 posted on 02/07/2006 1:36:13 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer
That announcement set off a chain of events ending with the so-called White Report, the findings of a private investigation requested by Hubbard and commissioned by diocese's lay review board. Former U.S. prosecutor Mary Jo White, whose name carries great credibility, was paid $770 an hour by the diocese for her four-month inquiry,...... White was paid $2.2 million for a four-month inquiry that ended up clearing Hubbard of all accusations ......

Nice to see how the diocese is spending the widow's mite.

I guess if a diocese has few, if any vocations, and no seminarians to support then there's a few extra dollars kicking around from the Bishop's Annual Appeal. Lawyers are a worthy cause, I guess.

As for the accusations, they're what many of us have thought for a long time and in Hubbard's case, I'd be astounded if he wasn't homosexual. However, these men are entitled to their good name and reputation and I just pray that truth sees the light of day through all of this accusation/counter-accusation mess.

9 posted on 02/07/2006 1:44:05 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: NYer
"To date, according to the Catholic bishops' own figures, 9,660 people nationwide since 1950 have accused 4,089 priests of molesting them. In New York City, 140 victims have named 49 abusive priests; in Albany, it's 141 and 69 respectively."

My younger brother is homosexual - a long story, that, many prayers and tears - and is careful not to "out" his people. Once, though, he said that for all that he hates the Catholic Church "at least they know what to do with homosexuals." He was inferring that he had close personal experience with many, many priests within the "gay" scene.

I wonder who first molested him as a youngster. He will not tell me.

During the last decade or so (my younger brother is 57 years old) I have come to see that I was wrong to be "understanding" and "accepting" of my younger brother's decision to be "gay". His life is ruined most completely.

The "psychobabble" about being an "enabler" turns out to be true in my case. All that I have left are my prayers for mercy for myself and for him.

Anyway, have done some digging, quite a lot, actually, and find that the situation in the American Church is extremely bad. The situation is much worse than almost all Catholics imagine. We are talking heavy duty intimidation of those who question homosexual control of the American Church.

Someone first molested my younger brother. Our Dad was a remote and distant man prone to rages. He drank heavily every day and died young. I figure my brother was looking for love from Dad but, not getting love from Dad went looking for love from some "father figure." I hope it was not a Priest. He will not tell me if it was, or if it was not.

10 posted on 02/07/2006 1:58:26 PM PST by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: NYer

I want the truth to be known, whatever may come from this.


11 posted on 02/07/2006 1:59:06 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Iris7

I'll pray for you and your brother both.


12 posted on 02/07/2006 2:01:11 PM PST by Malacoda (The Posting Police annoy me)
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To: Iris7

I will keep you and your younger brother in my prayers.


13 posted on 02/07/2006 2:01:44 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: marshmallow

$2,200,00 divided by $770 = 2,857 hours in four months. Nice.


14 posted on 02/07/2006 2:02:32 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: NYer

Let the games begin!


15 posted on 02/07/2006 2:05:07 PM PST by Palladin ("Governor Lynn Swann."...it has a nice ring to it!)
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To: Nihil Obstat
LOL!!!

Maybe they gave her a "not guilty" bonus for giving the Bishop the all clear.

16 posted on 02/07/2006 2:05:26 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: Teˇfilo

I am sorry. I do so wish there were any doubt, any doubt whatever. There is none.

For many years I went down the road you now tread, trying to deny the evidence and hoping for the best. Eventually I could no longer travel that road. I have been shown that the situation is extreme. Hoatson is making an understated view of the situation. My sources are of the very highest quality.


17 posted on 02/07/2006 2:09:13 PM PST by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Malacoda

Thank you both so very much.

Let us pray for the truly brave, truly valiant, and truly good Priests who daily resist this evil. There are many such Priests. There are more decent Priests who fear causing scandal. There are more Priests yet who have worse motives. I may say no more.


18 posted on 02/07/2006 2:18:52 PM PST by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: NYer
A homosexual 'marriage' case must be coming up in one of the major courts, or maybe in New York? Someone is trying to strip the Catholic Church of any credibility in the fight against it, just as it did with Cardinal Law in Boston.

Yes, there were a few priests in the Boston Archdiocese who molested kids, and in my opinion, they should have been thrown out on their a$$es when it was first found out. I have no sympathy for abusers and molesters, but at the time of the abuse, in many cases, the kids' PARENTS chose not to pursue justice for them. That was delayed until they were adults themselves, and it was long overdue.

However, I firmly believe the Boston Globe blew the story out of all proportion to the numbers of abusers involved for a reason. I believe it was done to try to keep the Church from being a strong voice against the homosexual marriage decision. The Globe certainly hasn't pursued child molesters from any other institutions with the same fervor.

19 posted on 02/07/2006 2:34:47 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: marshmallow
Maybe they gave her a "not guilty" bonus for giving the Bishop the all clear.

From all that I've ever read about her, Mary Jo White is an upstanding, honest attorney who would not whitewash an investigation. You are suggesting that this is not true. Do you have any evidence of that?

20 posted on 02/07/2006 2:38:19 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Nihil Obstat

Dear Nihil Obstat,

I'm pretty sure that there were multiple lawyers from her firm that were billing hours.

Then again, there is the old joke about the lawyer, when asked how he could be billing 24 hours a day, answered, "I'm only working one shift."

;-)


sitetest


21 posted on 02/07/2006 2:45:22 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: SuziQ
From all that I've ever read about her, Mary Jo White is an upstanding, honest attorney who would not whitewash an investigation. You are suggesting that this is not true. Do you have any evidence of that?

Lighten up. It was a joke.

The article states that she was paid $770 dollars per hour for her services. It also states that she received a grand total of $2.2 million dollars for a four month investigation.

Another poster did the math which showed that to receive $2.2 million dollars, at $770 per hour, she would have to have worked 2,857 hours. In other words, more hours than there is in a four month period.

My quip was a light-hearted jest to explain this glaring discrepancy.

22 posted on 02/07/2006 2:48:05 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: RobbyS
Hoatson undermines himself by not admitting that the predators are themselves mostly homosexuals, so the bishops would be protecting their own, so to speak.

Um, isn't that the entire basis of his lawsuit?

From article:

what Hoatson claims is that, as leaders of a church requiring celibacy and condemning homosexuality, actively gay bishops are too afraid of being exposed themselves to turn in pedophile priests. The bishops' closeted homosexuality, as the lawsuit states, "has compromised defendants' ability to supervise and control predators, and has served as a reason for the retaliation."

23 posted on 02/07/2006 2:54:01 PM PST by M. Thatcher ( I truly hope for two things before I die. The death of the Democrat Party, and the death of Islam.)
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To: Teˇfilo

We all need to open our eyes and understand that there are not two tracks -- heterosexual and homosexual -- in the Catholic hierarchy. If there were, the hetero bishops would have stopped it. Instead, we have low-level heroes like the Springfield priest who brought down his bishop, or the pastor of Our Lady's in Newton, Mass., who was without a church for a long time until he was given the chaplaincy at Brandeis after a sufficient period of keeping his mouth shut.
The entire upper hierarchy is homo or supportive of it.
This attack on homo priests and bishops and cardinals and likely, popes, is just that, an attack on perverts, and not on our religion.
As someone put it here a while back, just another organization screwed up by middle management.


24 posted on 02/07/2006 3:09:01 PM PST by jjmcgo
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To: SuziQ

I sympathize with you in your confusion and your denial but sticking our heads in the sand won't correct the situation.
You need to read Jason Berry's Lead Us Not Into Temptation.
He was a New Orleans Times-Picayune reporter assigned to what appeared to be a small molestation case in Lafayette, La., in the 1980s.
Instead, he "discovered" the nationwide cabal and unified defense strategy. The horse was out of the nationwide barn after that. The Globe had nothing to do with it. Law wasn't hounded, he was assisted in fleeing the scene by the Pope!
After reading the book, I covered a trial of a molester priest and heard the exact same defense I'd read in the book. I approached the diocese's attorney and told him he was much more effective when advancing his own arguments rather than parroting a national strategy.
He was fuming and went off the deep end when the plaintiff's attorney said he agreed with me and asked him what was it worth to gain the whole world ...


25 posted on 02/07/2006 3:21:31 PM PST by jjmcgo
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To: NYer

Hitting the fan? No?


26 posted on 02/07/2006 3:31:36 PM PST by Salvation (ćWith God all things are possible.ć)
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To: marshmallow
Nice to see how the diocese is spending the widow's mite.

They "claim" it was paid from other funds :-). Ultimately, however, Mary Jo White was hired for $2.2 million to clear Bishop Hubbard's name. They say that "money can buy anything". She was limited to clearing his name on earth.

Like you, I pray for these bishops gone astray. May they have a change of heart and bring the lost sheep back into the fold.

27 posted on 02/07/2006 3:44:36 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: M. Thatcher

He doesn't go so far as to attached the abuse to the homosexuality of the predators.


28 posted on 02/07/2006 3:51:11 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: NYer
I'm not at all impressed with his lawsuit or the manner in which he is publicizing it in an article written by the Village Voice. I'd only expect bias from them. This says it all.

"Hoatson's suit could well get quashed before it ever reaches an open courtroom. Yet in the court of public opinion, he may already be winning."

If Hoatson has the goods on these Bishops, he should spill them now for all to see. Hubbard wouldn't surprise me, but Myers? There needs to be proof.

Additionally, all the supporting quotes come from groups and persons not exactly amicable to orthodox Catholic teaching. Richard Sipe, Voice of the Faithful, etc.

Hoatson himself:

"As a 22-year-old seminarian in the Christian Brothers, he says, another brother repeatedly molested him over a four-year period. Several years later, he confided in his superior, who Hoatson says assaulted him as well. "I knew it was abuse," he says, but he never identified it as such until years later."

Huh? A man in his mid-twenties cannot identify that he has been sexually abused until years later?

I'm all for cleaning out the lavender mafia from the Church including those in the Priesthood - meaning Bishops as well - guilty of these deadly sins. Hoatson and Aretakis, if they are honest and truthful about their accusations, need to back them up with the incontestable proof they claim to have so that the Church can move forward, otherwise I have to consider them to be slanderous attacks against the Bishops and the Church with their lawsuits a shill attempt at gaining notoriety.

29 posted on 02/07/2006 3:58:14 PM PST by TotusTuus
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To: Iris7
Dear friend .... thank you for the post. It took a lot of courage and fortitude to write that. One of my cousins was homosexual; he died from AIDS.

(my younger brother is 57 years old)

One of the men who stepped forward in the Diocese of Albany, was a 65 year old man (that predates VCII). He claimed he had been molested by a certain priest when he was an adolescent; that priest is now dead and the diocese could not address his claim. This problem has been around for a long time. It got worse, though, under the leadership of certain bishops who actively recruited homosexuals to ordination in their dioceses. This is true in the Diocese of Albany, where I reside. For several years I agonized over this situation wondering how someone who advocated ordaining homosexual men to the priesthood, could have been elevated to the position of bishop. And then I found the answer.

Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.

I am sorry for your younger brother and hope he will seek professional guidance. Too often, these men blame themselves. My prayers for both of you.

30 posted on 02/07/2006 4:05:57 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

Now we're hitting closer to home :-)


That is the reason for most of them having a blind eye on child molesters, because they too have vulnerable skeletons in their closet!


31 posted on 02/07/2006 4:21:10 PM PST by restornu
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To: Iris7; Ohioan from Florida; Malacoda; Teˇfilo
Let us pray for the truly brave, truly valiant, and truly good Priests who daily resist this evil.

They are out there! You need to pray and ask our Lord for guidance. In total despair, I pleaded with Him to deliver me from weekly agony of watching Him demeaned at Mass. Oh how He responded! He guided my path to a small Maronite Catholic Church with a very orthodox priest and a community in need. Over the past two years, we have worked at building up the parish and eventually moving it into a 150 year old, boarded up Methodist/Episcopal Church. We applied to the state for landmark status and the building is now on the National Register of Historical Landmarks.

Tomorrow, Father and I will meet with our state grants representative. As a small community, we have limited funds but now that the future church has been declared a landmark, we qualify for matching state grants to do the restoration work. It's a long process but if we are approved, it will expedite the process of converting the church into a Catholic Church. Ironically the community in which this church is located houses 6 Catholic Churches. Last summer, Bishop Hubbard closed 5 of them, consolidating everyone into one Church. Each time Father goes over to work on the future church, people ask him when it will open. There is a tremendous need for another Catholic Church. In our case, since our pairsh is Maronite Catholic, Bishop Hubbard can't touch it. Father is bi-ritual (Maronite and Latin Rite) and he plans to offer both liturgies in the future parish.

Please remember him in your prayers. It is not unusual to find Father up on the roof of the future church, repairing leaks. Our Maronite bishop is worried, as are all of us. If we can obtain the state grants, Father will be able to repair the roof and finish the interior, thus providing another parish for Catholics in that community. Thank you for your prayers!

32 posted on 02/07/2006 4:22:41 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: SuziQ; marshmallow; jjmcgo; sitetest
If you hire an interior decorator, they will give you what you want, even if they don't agree with your personal taste.

From all that I've ever read about her, Mary Jo White is an upstanding, honest attorney who would not whitewash an investigation. You are suggesting that this is not true. Do you have any evidence of that?

Evidence has a way of disappearing.

"  ALBANY, N.Y. — Fr. John Minkler, 57, was found dead Sunday, February 15 (2004). This was 48 hours after he was directed by the Diocese of Albany, N.Y. — according to what he told this reporter — to sign a statement denying he ever wrote a letter nearly nine years ago to the late John Cardinal O’Connor. That letter, in part, mentioned "a ring of homosexual Albany priests which also included Bishop Howard Hubbard."

Mystery Surrounds Death Of Priest

33 posted on 02/07/2006 4:32:09 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: TotusTuus
I'm all for cleaning out the lavender mafia from the Church including those in the Priesthood - meaning Bishops as well - guilty of these deadly sins. Hoatson and Aretakis, if they are honest and truthful about their accusations, need to back them up with the incontestable proof they claim to have so that the Church can move forward, otherwise I have to consider them to be slanderous attacks against the Bishops and the Church with their lawsuits a shill attempt at gaining notoriety.

Ping to post #33.

34 posted on 02/07/2006 4:35:24 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: SuziQ
Denial isn't just a river in Egypt, Suzi. The fact is that Bishops and Archbishops covered for these Pixies for too long, in many cases due to the fact that many were gay themselves.

Stop deluding yourself into thinking that the Lavendar Mafia does not exist within the Church. They do, and it has cost the AmChurch alot of credibility.

35 posted on 02/07/2006 4:45:02 PM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: NYer

NYer, I wish you'd keep all of us better informed on the progress of your small Maronite parish. It really is "good news" to hear about it!


36 posted on 02/07/2006 5:08:34 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Teˇfilo

"I pray to the Lord that these allegations are not true, for the sake of the Catholic faithful of said dioceses."

But if they are true (and they appear to be from my pew unfortunately), I pray for Truth to win and cleansing to begin to give us hope.


37 posted on 02/07/2006 5:26:43 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Teˇfilo
I believe these allegations wholeheartedly. I will never, ever, forget being at mass that Egan said. Afterwards, he walked around, or before, I can't remember. Suddenly this incredibly effete Italian man a pew or two ahead of me, and he was at least six foot four or five so impossible not to notice, starts mincing and making noise at Egan and batting his eyes at him. Egan comes over and starts making noise over this guy. And starts basically flirting and talking to him in Italian. My mom and sister were with me so I was not alone witnessing this massively witnessed open flirtation by Egan. Then he gets up and does this over the top homily with this ridiculous booming theatrical voice.

Let's see, there is also the priest at my former parish. My son did his Eagle Scout project for the parish: he made a bedding around a the Church Sign and put in a great deal of landscaping which he had procured. When he first laid out the basic framework of the bed, he invited the priest to come over and look at this design. Well, right in front of me, the priest starts batting his eyes at my son, mincing around and saying, "oh, the bed's too bid! oh, the bed's too big!" wink, wink, nod, nod, and so on. I couldn't believe it! But I should not have been surprised. I left my previous parish because THAT priest asked my son in his Catholic school eighth grade class to step to the board and draw a picture of an adult circumsised male-including, yes, you guessed it, his penis. In my outrage I contacted then Cardinal O'Connor. Well, after the hubub ensued and other parents came forth with similar stories, this priest was not removed from the parish or priesthood, but told to refrain from entering the school. The assistant to Catherine Hickey, Superintendent of Schools, spoke with me and asked me if this measure was satisfactory. I said, no! of course not. Would the Foreman of a Ford Motor plant be restricted from running and overseeing the assembly line for heaven's sake? I have since learned that this same assistant (whose authority as a School Administrator, btw, was nil-only a Priest in an Administrative position could truly mete out a punishment, a fact not lost on me) has left his position: why? Seems he told the people downtown (at the Chancery in NY) that HE had been abused by a priest as a boy and HE couldn't bear these confrontations any longer.

On another note: when I moved my kids to a new Catholic School, soon, I learned the sex ed program would be "Growing in Love". I fought a hard battle there and had it removed, but not before earning the disdain of many who did not like my outspokeness regarding this tripe passed off as catechetical fare. It openly endorses teaching fourth graders about anal sex and many other perversions and has been explicated from many diocese by activists.

In spite of it all, I remain a religious education teacher. What do I teach? I subvert the catechism book in my care for dissemination by teaching mixture of Father John Hardin's series: Faith and Life. This I mix in with the Baltimore Catechism. Since the DRE doesn't ever bother really overseeing my classroom, she's none the wiser. V's wife.

38 posted on 02/07/2006 5:58:28 PM PST by ventana
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To: Stingray51

bump


39 posted on 02/07/2006 6:47:42 PM PST by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Iris7
For many years I went down the road you now tread, trying to deny the evidence and hoping for the best. Eventually I could no longer travel that road. I have been shown that the situation is extreme. Hoatson is making an understated view of the situation. My sources are of the very highest quality.

I'm not denying any "evidence." Thing is, *I* haven't seen any such evidence other than the accusations I see hurled in these articles. They may be based on unimpeachable sources, but *I* don't know them!

Look, going after a bishop is no small affair. This is not Watergate, "Deep Throat" doesn't work in this business. A bishop, regardless of where he's a bishop, is an extraordinary man and to bring one down requires extraordinary proof.

The proofs must be open, transparent, trustable, capable of sustaining any kind of juridical scrutiny and able to convince an skeptic without doubt.

Sub-rosa campaings of hints and allegations do not constitute "proof." Clear statements of witnesses and material proof, as well as when, where, who, how, what, is what's needed here.

If the evidence proves the guilt of the parties in question, let the ax fall where it may--the Lord will take care of the Church. But if the evidence is not strong enough to convict an skeptic beyond a reasonable doubt, better be ready to apologize and do penance.

Bishops are the immediate Successors to the Apostles, in spite of their personal faults--and these may be bad bad BAD, but no matter. Be careful how you bring one down.

-Theo

40 posted on 02/07/2006 6:49:23 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Teˇfilo

Isn't it a much later hour than worrying about bringing down a Bishop? You are saying that in the way that suggests you are worried about an important load bearing timber being compromised. The point is the whole foundation is termite ridden and near collapse because of the far and wide reach of these predators. Many churches will close in the next twenty years. One, because the Faith has been so tarnished by these evil people as to make it difficult for the average person to embrace the faith. Two, because these evil people have made it their business to see to it that the Faith was not taught. Therefore, we are multigenerationally behind the eighth ball. V's wife.


41 posted on 02/07/2006 7:00:16 PM PST by ventana
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To: Teˇfilo

Dear Theo,

In this case, though, we have someone, Fr. Hoatson, who has come forward, openly, and made the charges. He states that he has first-hand experience and evidence to present.

He has actually initiated legal action, meaning that if he continues to move forward, evidence will be taken, testimony given under oath, etc.

Perhaps we might see some progress toward getting to the bottom of this with a few of these bishops.

I, like you, believe that one should be cautious in making accusations against Catholic bishops. I haven't given much credence to folks with second- and third-hand information from hidden accusers who refuse to come forward and plainly state their charges in the light of day.

But here is a man willing to make his charges openly, notoriously, and on the record and under oath.

He is to be taken seriously.


sitetest


42 posted on 02/07/2006 7:02:05 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: jjmcgo
I'm not denying any "evidence." Thing is, *I* haven't seen any such evidence other than the accusations I see hurled in these articles. They may be based on unimpeachable sources, but *I* don't know them!

Look, going after a bishop is no small affair. This is not Watergate, "Deep Throat" doesn't work in this business. A bishop, regardless of where he's a bishop, is an extraordinary man and to bring one down requires extraordinary proof.

The proofs must be open, transparent, trustable, capable of sustaining any kind of juridical scrutiny and able to convince an skeptic without doubt.

Sub-rosa campaings of hints and allegations do not constitute "proof." Clear statements of witnesses and material proof, as well as when, where, who, how, what, is what's needed here.

If the evidence proves the guilt of the parties in question, let the ax fall where it may--the Lord will take care of the Church. But if the evidence is not strong enough to convict an skeptic beyond a reasonable doubt, better be ready to apologize and do penance.

Bishops are the immediate Successors to the Apostles, in spite of their personal faults--and these may be bad bad BAD, but no matter. Be careful how you bring one down.

There's another thing here and it is THE LANGUAGE OF HATRED. I will not refer to anyone as "Homo this, homo that," even when they may, in fact, be homosexual persons. The key if that they are PERSONS in need of REPENTANCE and HEALING, and in need of our PRAYERS and COMPASSION.

If they lapse into criminal behavior, well then, let them suffer the consequences. If they repent and reform, well then, WELCOME TO THE CHURCH. Afterall, St. Paul was a murderer before he became St. Paul.

All people are entitled to their DIGNITY. If, as some argue, we're to adopt the weapons of our opposition in order to resist them, we might be successful in this life, but in the next one, we'll meet our unrepentant opponents in hell.

I will not win my battles in the culture wars at the expense of my eternal soul. I refuse to do that.

-Theo

43 posted on 02/07/2006 7:02:45 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Domestic Church
But if they are true (and they appear to be from my pew unfortunately), I pray for Truth to win and cleansing to begin to give us hope.

So do I, painful as this purification may be for me to behold. Fiat.

All I'm saying that we should not become in the process like our opposition because the moment that happens, they win.

-Theo

44 posted on 02/07/2006 7:05:14 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: ventana
Isn't it a much later hour than worrying about bringing down a Bishop? You are saying that in the way that suggests you are worried about an important load bearing timber being compromised. The point is the whole foundation is termite ridden and near collapse because of the far and wide reach of these predators. Many churches will close in the next twenty years. One, because the Faith has been so tarnished by these evil people as to make it difficult for the average person to embrace the faith. Two, because these evil people have made it their business to see to it that the Faith was not taught. Therefore, we are multigenerationally behind the eighth ball. V's wife.

There's much truth in what you're saying, sadly, but I also want to emphasize that the CHURCH IS AN OBJECT OF FAITH. Is not a company, is not a voluntary association with assets and liabilities, etc.

We say in the Creed: I BELIEVE IN THE ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. What does that mean? That we're called to believe with perfect certainty, to know, in fact, that the building of the Church WILL NOT FALL.

"The Faith" CAN'T BE TARNISHED. People's perception of the Faith is what is tarnished, and that's bad when it comes from the traditional enemies of the faith, but worse when the tarnished perceptions are those of Catholics.

Even then we can't lose faith. Let's not compromise our joy and our love. Like St. Pío of Pietrelcina said: Pray, Hope, and Don't Worry.

-Theo

45 posted on 02/07/2006 7:11:48 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: Teˇfilo

Well. I am Catholic and live in Manhattan. I hope this is not true. But God's will be done. And it will be.


46 posted on 02/07/2006 7:13:19 PM PST by GeorgiaGuy
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To: NYer

"Mary Jo White, whose name carries great credibility..."

...among retarded chimpanzees.


47 posted on 02/07/2006 7:25:06 PM PST by dsc
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To: Kolokotronis; sandyeggo; Salvation; Marcellinus; sitetest; Clemenza; RKBA Democrat; redhead
NYer, I wish you'd keep all of us better informed on the progress of your small Maronite parish. It really is "good news" to hear about it!

Thank you, Kolo! As mentioned, the future church has been accorded a place on the National Register of Historical Landmarks. That opens a gate to receiving matching state grants for restoration. Please remember Father and this parish in your prayers as we begin the next phase of preparing the application and gathering supporting documentation.

As you all know, our tiny parish celebrated its centennial in December. The eparchial bishop concelebrated the Divine Liturgy on December 4 and Bishop Hubbard was invited to join us. In the 2 years following his enthronement, Maronite Bishop Gregory Mansour has attempted to visit as many parishes within the eparchy as he can. We were most blessed to welcome him twice, the most recent visit being for the centennial. The bishop is called upon to deliver many speeches, testimonials and homilies so you can imagine my great surprise to find the homily he delivered at our parish, as one of only a handful listed on his web site.

It is not only a unique (and most humbling) honor to have our parish recognized in this manner but also a great responsibility to live up to his words. If you have a chance, please take a moment to read his words.

Saint Ann Church, Troy 100 Years

48 posted on 02/07/2006 7:25:38 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: sitetest
But here is a man willing to make his charges openly, notoriously, and on the record and under oath. He is to be taken seriously.

And I will take him seriously, when I hear what he has to say and consider the evidence that he's to present.

We also have to be cognizant of what we are giving up here when a priest sues a bishop successfully in civil court, and invoking the protections and the judgment of the state in internal church affairs: they're opening the doors for the state to deal with the Church as it would deal with ENRON. The Church will become a corporation in the eyes of the state and Canon Law will become no better than bylaws, susceptible to the state's nullification, particularly if priests are to be considered "employees" of their dioceses and not sons of their bishops; the state will see bishops as CEO's of the local branch of the Catholic Church, Inc., and the Church's employment practices will be forced to conform to civil law, including non-discrimination towards people whose moral behavior is irrelevant to the state's sense of equity, but not the Church's.

I'm convinced that when a priest sues a bishop in civil court, the plaintiff is opening the door for the very evils he seeks to avert to invade the Church. I think that the cure will kill the patient.

As bad as the scandal is that priests have molested tens of thousands of children, and bishops contented themselves to play musical chairs with them; as bad as the existence of the "Lavender Mafia," along with its dirty little subculture is, getting the state involved at this level will ensure their long term permanence and the destruction of the Church as the only independent entity able to challenge the culture.

That's what our adversaries WANT and many of us, led by our righteous rage, fail to see that we're playing right into their hands.

I don't want to sound unduly apocalyptic, but MARK MY WORDS: that's what's going to happen if we keep demanding the state's intervention inside the Church, as priests sue their bishops.

There has got to be another way. Doesn't ANYONE SEE IT?

-Theo

49 posted on 02/07/2006 7:26:45 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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To: GeorgiaGuy
...But God's will be done. And it will be.

You betcha!

-Theo

50 posted on 02/07/2006 7:27:50 PM PST by Teˇfilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org - A Catholic Blog of News, Commentary and Opinion)
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