Posted on 05/29/2008 10:50:48 AM PDT by NYer
One of the most amazing works of the Holy Spirit over the past couple of decades or so has been the wave of Protestant converts coming into the Catholic Church. Notable among them have been the Protestant ministers — the tip of the iceberg of whom have been the names that have become well-known in apologetics circles. Though what they have been given by the Church surely dwarfs anything they have brought to her, it is also true that they have enlivened the faith of many a cradle Catholic with their enthusiasm and evident joy at discovering the truths of the faith.
Teaching Protestants who come into the Church is a challenge that any well-managed RCIA program should be able to meet. What has proved more difficult however has been finding ways to make use of the gifts and training that Protestant ministers bring with them and assisting them with their very special circumstance — that their conversion has met the end of their career. The Coming Home Network, founded by Marcus Grodi, has served a very valuable role in helping these men (they are mostly men) make the difficult double transition into a new faith community and career at the same time.
What Marcus Grodi has found, as those who watch his show, The Journey Home, may have noticed, is that sprinkled among the converts from Protestant denominations have been here and there, converts, not merely from among our separated brethren, but from religious groups that deny nearly everything that we and the Protestants have in common. At first it was rare and notable to see a former Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon being interviewed on his show. That has begun to change as converts from these groups become more common. Within recent weeks both a former Jehovah’s Witness and a deacon who was in The Way International appeared in separate episodes of The Journey Home.
These conversions from such high-control groups are often very dramatic and the choices these converts face may go well beyond the Protestant minister’s career upheavals to encompass cruel ostracism by close family members, shattering self-doubt, and difficult navigation through a socially alien terrain.
More and more, we are seeing converts whose backgrounds are much stranger, theologically and socially, than any former Baptist or Episcopalian. Have we noticed that they are coming in? Are we ready for them?
One way we can get ready is by understanding more about what life in cult does to a person, the wounds that may be left from years of spiritual and emotional abuse, from years of living in existential terror of violating dehumanizing and arbitrary — and constantly changing — rules. The people most equipped to convey this understanding to us are the people who have lived the experience of being in a cult, coming out, and coming into the Catholic Church. The richness of their experience cannot be overstated any more than can the depth of their gratitude. The one who has been forgiven much, loves much, and the one in whom the light itself has been darkness finds special joy in the true light.
So come and learn from these people whose amazing journey will inspire and educate you. Come to the Welcome Home! Catholic Conference in Weirton, WV from August 1-3. The conference is sponsored by the Fellowship of Catholic Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Speakers include our own Mark Shea, Tom Cabeen, a former overseer at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses and yours truly. I will be giving an extended talk on the subject of cults on Friday evening. It is called “Hijacked Lives” and will cover how people get recruited into cults, what happens to them while they are in the group and what kind of help they need when they get out.
I especially urge Catholic social workers, counselors, and other mental health providers to come and learn how to effectively help people with this history. Priests, DREs, and catechists will benefit from understanding how to
meet the unique needs of this population as they enter the Catholic Church in increasing numbers — because whether we are ready or not, God is bringing them to us.
This conference will also be invaluable for anyone with a family member in this group — or in any similar group that wrecks havoc with family life. Come meet others who understand the deep sense of loss, the holiday turmoil, the walking on eggshells.
Weirton, WV is about 20 minutes from the Pittsburgh International Airport and 30 minutes from the Franciscan University of Steubenville. Special early-registration rates are available now through June 30th. To see the agenda and to register for the conference click here or follow the link on the website of The Catholic Fellowship of Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses, www.catholicxjw.com.
Not thin skinned at all. No skin off my nose if you can’t keep a civil tongue.
That can certainly be debated.
. . .and Sacred Tradition
Which is easy since the Catholics developed it.
I'm sure you know that many do not agree with that assessment.
. . .and Sacred Tradition
Which is easy since the Catholics developed it.
The Catholic faith that is, is the faith that was, and is the faith that will be
Hmmm. . .I guess it depends on what you mean by that. I know that the Catholic church has changed it's position on some things, like whether priests can marry, whether Mary was eternally a virgin and was assumed into heaven rather than dying a human death, whether the apocrypha was divinely inspired. Maybe you aren't counting those things as part of what you mean by 'faith'.
**Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses**
One of my best friends — I do cooking with her for certain things in our parish — is an ex-JW. she is a very strong Catholic.
Another personal friend is a former Mormon. What a story he has to tell!
This is far from being true. There is a very lucrative business for ex-Protestant ministers who have converted to Catholicism in their conversion story itself. There are numerous ex-prot ministers writing books and articles and doing speaking engagements about their conversions and about Catholic apologetics from a (supposedly) Protestant point of view. Catholics never seem to tire of these stories of how they "came home" through serious Bible study, studying the Church fathers, logic and reason. The more intellectual they are in presenting the Catholic case, the better.
First the Protestants, Now the Cults: Will We (the Catholic Church) Be Ready? [Open]
A TRIUMPH AND A TRAGEDY [James Akin]
Alex Jones: the evangelical who became a Catholic deacon
Mary and the Problem of Christian Unity [Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.}
How the Saints Helped Lead Me Home [Chris Findley]
Who is Mary of Nazareth? [Kenneth J. Howell, Ph. D.}
A story of conversion at the Lamb of God Shrine
EWTN - Journey Home - 4/7/08 - Rosalind Moss - Former Jew & Evangelical Christian
Our Lady’s Gentle Call to Peace [Joan Tussing]
Coming Out of Sodom (Reversion Experience of Once-Active Homosexual) [Eric Hess]
Our Journey Home [Larry and Joetta Lewis]
Book on Mary turns runaway youngster immersed in drugs and crime into a priest
Dr. Robert C. Koons (former Lutheran) - Journey Home - Monday 3/31 - Conversion Story
The Story of a Convert from Islam – Baptized by the Pope at St. Peter's [Magdi Cristiano Allam]
How Do We Know It’s the True Church? - Twelve Things to Look For [Fr. Dwight Longenecker]
"Have you not read?" The Authority behind Biblical Interpretation [Robert Sungenis]
New faith pulls Hot Springs family together (Baptists join Catholic Church at Easter Vigil) [Danny Morrison and family
SciFi Writer, John C. Wright, Enters Catholic Church at Easter Vigil (conversion story)[John C. Wright]
"What is Truth?" An Examination of Sola Scriptura [Dwight Longenecker’family]
LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM [Fr. Brian Harrison]
Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim [Magdi Allam]
My Journey of Faith [Marco Fallon]
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church [Robert Koons]
Thousands in U.S. to Join (Catholic) Church - Many Feel They Have Found a Home
TURN ABOUT (Carl Olson, former Evangelical and Monday's guest on EWTN's Journey Home)
Former Southern Baptist Pastor Now a Traveling Crusader for the Catholic Church [Michael Cumbie]
All Roads Lead To Rome (A Southern Baptist's Journey into the Catholic Church)[John David Young]
Allen Hunt, Methodist Minister ...Journeys Home (Catholic, Re: Real Presence)
The Challenges and Graces of Conversion [Chris Findley]
An Open Letter...from Bishop John Lipscomb [Another TEC Bishop Goes Papist]
Unlocking the Convert's Heart [Marcus Grodi]
His Open Arms Welcomed Me [ Paul Thigpen}
Why I'm Catholic (Sola Scriptura leads atheist to Catholic Church)
From Calvinist to Catholic (another powerful conversion story) Rodney Beason
Good-bye To All That (Another Episcopalian gets ready to swim the Tiber)
Bp. Steenson's Letter to his clergy on his conversion to the Catholic Church
Bishop Steenson’s Statement to the House [of Bishops: Episcopal (TEC) to Catholic]
Bp. Steenson's Letter to his clergy on his conversion to the Catholic Church
Bishop Steenson Will Become a Roman Catholic
Married man considers turn as Catholic priest
Pavarotti returns to the Catholic faith before dying
Searching For Authority (A Methodist minister finds himself surprised by Truth!)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part VI: The Biblical Reality (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part V: The Catholics and the Pope(Al Kresta)
The Hail Mary of a Protestant (A true story)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part IV: Crucifix and Altar(Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part III: Tradition and Church (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part II: Doubts (Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Rusty Tisdale (former Pentecostal)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part I: Darkness(Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Matt Enloe (former Baptist) [prepare to be amazed!]
THE ORTHODOX REVIVAL IN RUSSIA
Conversion Story - David Finkelstein (former Jew)
Conversion Story - John Weidner (former Evangelical)
12 Reasons I Joined the Catholic Church
Conversion Story - Tom Hunt
The Tide Is Turning Toward Catholicism: The Converts
John Calvin Made Me Catholic
Journey Home - May 21 - Neil Babcox (former Presbyterian) - A minister encounters Mary
Going Catholic - Six journeys to Rome
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
A Convert's Pilgrimage [Christopher Cuddy]
From Pastor to Parishioner: My Love for Christ Led Me Home (to the Catholic Church) [Drake McCalister]
Lutheran professor of philosophy prepares to enter Catholic Church
Patty Bonds (former Baptist and sister of Dr. James White) to appear on The Journey Home - May 7
Pastor and Flock Become Catholics
Why Converts Choose Catholicism
From Calvinist to Catholic
The journey back - Dr. Beckwith explains his reasons for returning to the Catholic Church
Famous Homosexual Italian Author Returned to the Church Before Dying of AIDS
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
laetare (commentary on ordination of married Anglican convert to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles) Father Bill Lowe
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)
Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
He Was an Evangelical Christian Until He Read Aquinas [Rob Evans]
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
FORMER PENTECOSTAL RELATES MIRACLE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD
Interview with Roy Schoeman - A Jewish Convert
***It isn’t in Costa Rica. The loss of members by the Catholic Church is at hemorrhage levels. As for the rest, most Costa Ricans who claim to be Catholic are Catholic in name only.***
I wasn’t able to find much in the way of hemorrhaging mentioned in the Costa Rican related website; I will grant that a lot of cradle (whatevers) are in name only and are ripe for picking by outsiders.
I donno. Many Anglicans are already so close to the Catholic tradition that it is not a huge step. especially as their church is moving towards paganism.
What about Baptists and Methopdists? Is there a huge wave of them?
The doctrinal issues are not “molehills”. but define the belief.
***Gallup polling seems to suggest that the percentage of religious adherents by major group in the USA, at least, has actually remained pretty stable - well within the margins of error - for a decade and a half now (granted, the data provided ends in 2001, but I can’t see as how the trends since then would suddenly have gone haywire).***
Agreed.
***From what I’ve heard and seen, if any one group can claim explosive growth in Africa and other parts of the 3rd world, it would be the Pentecostals and like-minded non-denominational Charismatic groups.***
Well, the fun is in the numbers, not the percentages. If you have a total of 1000 of a denomination this year and they recruit 1000 more, they’ve doubled. If you have 100 million and they recruit 10 million more, they’ve only gone up 10%.
***Baptists and like-minded baptistic groups are making huge inroads in Brazil, Guatemale, and other Latin American countries (there are some districts in Oaxaca and Guatemala where Baptists and Protestants now make up large minorities (say, above 30%), which is leading to quite a lot of persecution at the hands of the local Catholic establishments.***
Unlike, say, the fine treatment of Catholics in places like Northern Ireland :). It is true, though, that the Catholics did not make as great inroads to the natives, Indians and the most native-appearing mulattoes as many people had thought.
***There’s a lot of mixing and turning out there in the religious world of Christendom, but the general trends seem to be people moving from liberal to conservative bodies, and from formalistic, hierarchical bodies towards independent and “non-denominational” groups.***
I think that this needs to be looked at a little more closely. Rick Warren and Robert Schuller and Joel Osteen and the like have picked up large congregations, yet I would call none of them conservative. I think that a lot of people who call themselves Christian basically have left a church and moved to either semi-solitary practice or to a small fellowship group that calls itself Christian and, vaguely, they kind of are.
More and more, we are seeing converts whose backgrounds are much stranger, theologically and socially, than any former Baptist or Episcopalian. Have we noticed that they are coming in? Are we ready for them?
One way we can get ready is by understanding more about what life in cult does to a person, the wounds that may be left from years of spiritual and emotional abuse, from years of living in existential terror of violating dehumanizing and arbitrary — and constantly changing — rules. The people most equipped to convey this understanding to us are the people who have lived the experience of being in a cult, coming out, and coming into the Catholic Church. The richness of their experience cannot be overstated any more than can the depth of their gratitude. The one who has been forgiven much, loves much, and the one in whom the light itself has been darkness finds special joy in the true light.
Seriously, out of all the Christian churches, the Catholic church should be the best one equipped to deal with ex-cultists. The Catholic church has the longest history and the widest geographic spread for the most amount of time. You should he prepared for anything. But this article seems to say you have gotten lazy by adding people who already believe in Jesus to your church. This does not bring Jesus to those who haven't heard, it just becomes a shuffling game, and Protestants are already great at swapping members between denominations. I guess we can welcome the Catholic church to the Protestant shuffle now.
Some clarifications here 1) Priestly celibacy is not a Doctrine of the Church, it is a Church discpline that is G Gospel Counsel that Christ himself attested to (c.f. Mt 19: 11-12) and St. Paul (c.f. I Cor 7:32) and also we see in the vision of heaven presented in the book of Revelation (c.f. Rev 14:4) and is an eschatological sign in that those who embrace it for the “kingdom of God”, as Christ taught in St. Matthew’s Gospel and St. Paul lived are anticipating the life to come where “those who are deemed worth to attain to the coming age and the resurrection of the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage” (c.f. Luke 20: 35).
Now does the Catholic Church see marriage in a negative light, of course not, it is one of the seven sacraments, which as St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas taugth, are visible signs of an invisible grace that God uses to make us Holy.
2) As for the teaching of Mary ever virgin. That has never been rejected by the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches the same thing and this teaching is attested by all the Fathers. It was not questioned until the 4th century when Helvidius raised it and St. Jerome, the greatest biblical scholar of his, and perhaps ever, wrote against that position
3) Finally, the “apocrypha”, which is Catholic and Eastern Orthdox circles, are called the “Deueterocanonicals” where always part of the OT canon used by the Early Church and the Fathers.
The Anglican Patristic Scholar JND Kelly who in his book “Early Christian Doctrines, pp. 53-54” provides solid evidence that the Dueterocanonicals were recognized as the Canonical Old Testament in the early Church. Kelly writes:
“It should be observed that the Old Testament thus admitted as authoritative in the Church was somewhat bulkier and more comprehensive than the [Protestant Old Testament] . . . It always included, though with varying degrees of recognition, the so-called Apocrypha or deutero-canonical books. The reason for this is that the Old Testament which passed in the first instance into the hands of Christians was . . . the Greek translation known as the Septuagint. . . . most of the Scriptural quotations found in the New Testament are based upon it rather than the Hebrew.. . . In the first two centuries . . . the Church seems to have accepted all or most of, these additional books as inspired and to have treated them without question as Scripture.
Quotations from Wisdom, for example, occur in 1 Clement and Barnabas. . . Polycarp cites Tobit, and the Didache [cites] Ecclesiasticus. Irenaeus refers to Wisdom, the History of Susannah, Bel and the Dragon [i.e., the deuterocanonical portions of Daniel], and Baruch. The use made of the Apocrypha by Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian and Clement of Alexandria is too frequent for detailed references to be necessary”
In addition to the constant witness of the CHurch Fathers, the NT itself shows an affinity to the LXX version of the OT (Greek-Septuigiant) as close to 70% of the OT quotes in the NT come from the LXX source.
Finally, the canonical lists drawn up during the 4th century, as the NT canon was completed shows the Deuterocanonicals were accepted. St. Athanasius’ 39th Easter letter lists the 27 New Testament books and 40 of the 46 Old Testament books that would be in the Catholic Canon (Baruch was included, the other 6 deuterocanonical books are admitted there use as devotional reading. The Council in Rome in 382 led by Pope Damasus, along with St. Jerome, listed the 46 books of the OT and 27 NT that are in the Catholic Bible today. While there is some historical disputes as to what was actually in Pope Damasus’s Decree, it is also clear that Jerome’s completed Latin Vulgate Translation consisted of all the books that are in the Catholic Canon today. The Councils of Hippo and Carthage, 393 and 397 AD, respectively are consistent with Rome in 382 and those councils sent there lists for Rome for approval. In summary, the canon in the Catholic Church at the end of the 4th century is the same canon that The Council of Trent, (1534 to 1565), in response to Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc, reaffirmed. Thus, it is accurate to state that the Catholic Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, protected and defended the orthodox Catholic faith and canonized the scriptures that were in conformity with apostolic tradition. Here is a nice article from Newadvent.org (Catholic site) which goes through scholarly detail on the formation of the canon.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm
I agree that priestly celibacy has changed over the years, it was not always a requirement and it is not required in Orthodox Churches (which used to be part of the same church before the schism) as long as the Priest was married prior to ordination.
The Apocphyra were always in the Bible, until Martin Luther took them out. They were considered scripure by 1st century Christians and were always included among the Old Testament until the 1520s or 1530s
The Jews did not canonize them only because they could not find texts of them in Hebrew, only in Greek. But, lo and behold, texts of some of the apochyphra were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls in Hebrew.
True but the article also says:
What has proved more difficult however has been finding ways to make use of the gifts and training that Protestant ministers bring with them and assisting them with their very special circumstance — that their conversion has met the end of their career.
Take, for example, the case of Alex Jones, a former Evangelical minister. The Church applied his enthusiasm and spiritual background to reach out to newcomers and Catholics who had lost their sense of excitement. From what I understand, he is now an ordained deacon.
Even if I conceded about the illegals, (which I don’t). How do you account for all the newcomers to Catholicism? A Catholic is a Catholic, whether they are in the country illegally or not. They are not re-baptized or re-confirmed, they would be considered Catholics, new to the parish, not new Catholics.
Our parish has increased by 25% in the 8 yrs I’ve been there and I’m pretty sure there is not one illegal alien but I haven’t checked their papers. Most of that increase is converts and re-converts. We are getting young parents by the dozen, they are realizing that they want their children to have the faith handed on to them.
I don’t know the answer to your question but just anecdotally there are many re-converts. The difference is that re-converts don’t have to go through the RCIA process and they aren’t re-accepted into the Catholic church, they just go to confession and start living their faith again. They would never be considered NEW Catholics or converts. They would not be counted as such either.
A. I wouldn't know. B. I wouldn't be surprised.
The majority of Catholics who leave the Church are poorly catechized in their faith. As Diirector for Religious Education at my small parish, I have witnessed first hand the lack of understanding most adult Catholics possess with regard to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Those with small children have responded to the pastor's call to enroll them in formal religious education but there is no follow up at home. It is a great challenge to introduce these children to the faith over the span of only 15 hours spread out over several months. This is not enough time. More importantly, the primary educators should be the parents. Teaching children to pray is one thing; getting them to do it at home when the parents are disinterested, is something quite different. I am now looking into programs to educate the parents.
I have also seen how the local RC Diocese has mishandled the handing down of the Catholic faith. In many of their parishes, the bishop has agreed to abandon the program and leave the education up to the parents. Naturally, they make excuses - the child has football (or name your favorite sport) practice, the daughter has dance class, etc. All these "things" are more important than coming to know God. It is truly sad.
The converts coming into the Catholic Church, however, are amongst the most highly educated. These are former ministers who have been through scripture and theology classes. They have done the research and come to the knowledge that the Catholic Church is indeed the one Church founded by Jesus Christ.
Lol! Actually, the majority of them are conservative thinking protestant ministers who have read the Early Church Fathers and realized that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Jesus Christ. They arrive with great enthusiasm and love for our Lord and His Church. They bring their gifts and even their flocks.
Priests
Between 1930 and 1965, the number of priests in the United States more than doubled to 58,000.
Since then the number has fallen to 45,000.
By 2020, there will be only 31,000 priests left, and more than half of these priests will be over 70.
In 1965, 1,575 new priests were ordained in the United States.
In 2002, the number was 450.
In 1965, only 1% of U.S. parishes were without a priest. In 2002 this number is 15%.
Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700.
Two-thirds of the 600 seminaries that were operating in 1965 have now closed.
Religious Orders.
In 1965, there were 179,954 women in Catholic religious orders.
By 2002, that had fallen to 75,000, in 2005 it was 68,634 and the average age of a Catholic nun is today 68.
In 1965, 3,559 young men were studying to become Jesuit priests.
In 2000, the figure was 389.
With the Christian Brothers, the situation is even more dire.
Their number has now shrunk by two-thirds.
In 1965, there were 912 seminarians in the Christian Brothers.
In 2000, there were only 7.
The number of young men studying to become Franciscan and Redemptorist priests fell from 3,379 in 1965 to 84 in 2000.
Catholic schools.
Almost half of all Catholic high schools in the United States have closed since 1965.
The student population has fallen from 700,000 to 386,000. Parochial schools have suffered even worse. Some 4,000 have shut down, and the number of pupils has fallen from 4.5 million to just under 2 million.
Catholic Marriage.
Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965.
The annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002.
Attendance at Mass.
In 1958, a Gallup Poll reported that 74% of Catholics then attended church on Sundays.
In 1965, it seems that 65% attended, according to a recent Fordham University study.
In 1994, it seems that 27% attended church, according to study by the University of Notre Dame.
In 2000, the rate was 25%, according to the Fordham study.
Indicative beliefs
70% of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.
90% of lay religious teachers reject church teaching on contraception.
53% believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic.
65% believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry.
75% believe one can be a good Catholic without attending mass on Sundays.
Our non-denominational, former American Baptist Church, has welcomed a great many former Catholics, including its pastor and my husband. No apostasy there. These are all fine Christians who love the freedom in our church.
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