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The Coming Persecution (a priest's projection on what is to come if Obama re-elected)
Standing on my head ^ | March 2, 2012 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 03/03/2012 12:03:05 PM PST by NYer

So much talk amongst right wing Catholics of the erosion of religious liberty, the collapse of all things and the coming persecution. Talk of government detention centers and priests being shot like Bl. Miguel Pro.

I don't think they get it. That's not what it will be like.

America is different. We're into image big time. We thought the Soviets were into brainwashing and propaganda. We put them in the shade. America is all about healthy, lusty, good looking guys and gals who are clean cut, successful and smiling. We're into the good life. We're into being good and looking good, and if not the former at least the latter. We're into being the best, most successful and happy people in the world. Don't you know that??

There will be no martial law or military in the streets. That would appear to be so un-American! The officers who enforce the mandate will be lawyers in suits bearing legal documents. The battles will be in the courtroom. The penalties will seem just to the majority of people because we are in a democracy and those who disobey the law need to be punished, for it is the law of the land, and after all, if they had not done anything wrong they would not need to worry about anything!

To disobey the Mandate will seem so obstinate and unreasonable, for the State will not seek to close down any churches. Instead it will support the churches. Clergy training will be paid by the state. The church buildings will be maintained by a church tax which will be called the "tithe". Clergy will remain in their posts. Their dignity will be respected. All they will need to do is sign certain documents which ensure their safety and their freedom of worship in return for acknowledging the authority of the State (in civil matters only of course) These documents will be worded in such a way that a conscience clause will be admitted. The State will control the church "insofar as the law of God allows."

The State will bring in a sensible recognition of the validity of orders between the Christian churches. For practical reasons the Episcopalian priest or the Lutheran minister will be able to exchange ministries with the Catholic priest just as the Episcopalians and Lutherans already do. It will be a practical matter. Nothing theological will be implied for the Ministers of State would never presume to infringe on the theological aspect of the church. That would be above their pay grade. The orders will be interchangeable because the two churches are already so similar, and furthermore, many Episcopal priests are former Catholics and so have valid orders. This will smooth over the inconsistencies.

Many Catholic priests, after all, agree with the Episcopal doctrines and are in favor of married priests, women's ordination and homosexual marriage. Furthermore, the majority of the Catholics in the pews have no real problem with these things, and they see the sense of the government's re-organization of the religious life of the country. They never did like the noisy 'neo con' Catholics with their constant harping on about abortion and being homophobic and obsessed with sex. The government's solutions, it will be agreed, will bring peace to the whole situation. Common sense will prevail.

Oh there will be the complainers to be sure. They call them the 'recusants'. Cranky old homophobic, misogynistic priests--probably most of them secret pedophiles. The ones who are left are living off the grid. Most of the others are locked away for their own safety in the clergy 'retirement homes' that the government took over.

There will be pockets of resistance: Families here and there who are home schooling types--their girls in long denim skirts and their boys with combed hair and white shirts and ties. These "fundamentalists" will be called recusants. Some of the recusant families refuse to pay the "tithe" to maintain the churches and they are being fined and punished for their stupidity. These recusants harbor the priests and hide them away and think they are being martyrs for some great cause. The recusants will find it strangely difficult to get or keep a job. They'll end up impoverished and outside the mainstream.

In the meantime, most Americans will continue on happily. There have been no great revolutions. The economy did not collapse.  There was no great world war. The Muslims did not attack America. Families still go to the Mall, eat out at their favorite restaurants, and enjoy all the great amusements and opportunities America has always had on offer.

They're still neat and snug in the suburbs, and the Catholics? They will remember the first signs of a fuss--over the HHS Mandate of 2012--but it was soon shown that the vast majority of Americans--Catholics included--were in favor of artificial contraception--and didn't really mind abortion that much. Furthermore, it was shown that a good number of Catholic schools and universities and places of employment had already--even before the mandate--been providing cover for contraception, sterilization and abortion. The Bishops were shown to be wrong. The battle had already been lost long ago when the vast majority of Catholics accepted artificial contraception.

In the end, there was not really much of a battle. When things began to reach a crisis point most Catholics quietly stepped back from the fray. The Catholic churches and schools that chose  to be sensible and conform have been rewarded. They continue on much as they have done in the past. The Bishops may have removed the word "Catholic" from their name, but they still call themselves "St Patrick's School" or "Sacred Heart Hospital." They seem to operate the same as before. They have Catholic images on the walls and sisters in pantsuits still patrol the halls.

They fit in with the way of the world. Are some of the laws difficult for them? Perhaps in theory, but they obey. After all, it is the law of the land, and they will have seen how the few schools and colleges that stood up for the faith were crushed. So the Catholic Church will seem not to have been affected that much. The change will have been gradual and slow, and most Catholics will find that it is business as usual.

To be sure, there is a certain lack of edge--a certain softness, but they were like that before the changes happened. Dulled by a happy consumerism, and satiated with the American Dream, these Catholic schools and parishes and universities haven't minded too much that the Pope has been quietly marginalized by the State. They were never too keen on him anyway, and now that things have settled down it's all for the best.


TOPICS: Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; catholic; elections; episcopal; evangelical; lutheran; marxistcoup; nobama2012; obama; obamacare; obamatruthfile; persecution; remembernovember; thecomingdarkness; tyranny

1 posted on 03/03/2012 12:03:13 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

The “not a shot was fired” theory. Your thoughts?


2 posted on 03/03/2012 12:04:18 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

Can’t disagree with it. Probably one of the most accurate posts I’ve ever read here.


3 posted on 03/03/2012 12:11:42 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: NYer
It seems a reasonable path that could be taken. It is depressing realistic in it's cold assessment of what we likely face.

Throughout history the State has been the source of the greatest evils ever brought against man.

I pray there is a special place in the bottom rungs of h*ll for those who worship at the alter of State Power.

4 posted on 03/03/2012 12:12:35 PM PST by sand88 (Nothing on this Earth would get me to vote for Mitt.)
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To: NYer

With some difference it will probably be this way for all who follow Christ. As it was in the beginning, so it will be again - home churches.


5 posted on 03/03/2012 12:14:54 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (I'm for Churchill in 1940!)
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To: NYer

It’s working so far.


6 posted on 03/03/2012 12:15:54 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: NYer

“The ‘not a shot was fired’ theory. Your thoughts?”

What a shame that it should happen that way.

It all seems like a good and reasonable idea at the time, but it seemed reasonable in Germany in 1933, in Russia in 1917, and other places in the world that descended into hell.

Hopefully, Progressive scu&bags will not go that far in that their efforts will be scotched in one way or another.

IMHO


7 posted on 03/03/2012 12:16:04 PM PST by ripley
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To: NYer

Prior to the internet and instant broadcast of news and opinion this scenario would have been believable. Now, a few passionate souls is all it takes to sway public opinion either for or against a new act or policy. That won’t stop the vipers from trying but it’s a different world now.


8 posted on 03/03/2012 12:21:14 PM PST by concentric circles
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To: NYer

Obama’s picked the wrong enemy here. He’ll go down in flames if he persists . . .


9 posted on 03/03/2012 12:21:51 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: NYer

I think, within 15 years, it will be mandated that Churches preform gay “weddings” or lose their tax exempt status.

15 years ago, the concept of gay marriage was an alien one. The world of 15 years from now will be just as alien.


10 posted on 03/03/2012 12:23:53 PM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: NYer
"The “not a shot was fired” theory. Your thoughts?"

If large numbers of Catholics wake up and return to Catholicism rather than remaining cafeteria Catholics it could turn around on a dime. If they don't, the theory of how it'll go down is at least as good as any other and more realistic than most. It's definitely more likely to go that way than to lead to the general revolt some folks are expecting.

Personally, I think God is going to have a lot to say in this situation I just don't know whether it will be to let things get much worse in return for the fact that this country has turned away from Christ or to halt this mess in a fashion that shows He is always in charge no matter what politicians and weakling citizens think.

11 posted on 03/03/2012 12:36:11 PM PST by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: ripley

Much relieved to hear that all is Hunkee-xxx’in-DoRemee!

So we all stfu and continue ta grab over and bend ankles!


12 posted on 03/03/2012 12:37:25 PM PST by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: South Hawthorne

I believe that you are correct.This is coming.I read that the Gay marriage bill in Washington state originally had a clause that those who refused to officiate at this now legal ceremony,would be prosecuted.All of this is to destroy the Catholic Church.It stands in the way of a progressive’s paradise.


13 posted on 03/03/2012 12:47:29 PM PST by georgia peach (georgia peach)
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To: NYer
Obviously there is danger but the previous Pope stood up to the Soviet Union and prevailed. This one should work to expose Obama, beginning with Arpaio's work, and prevail against the American Marxists.

ML/NJ

14 posted on 03/03/2012 12:49:02 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Rashputin
If large numbers of Catholics wake up and return to Catholicism rather than remaining cafeteria Catholics it could turn around on a dime.

They've been asleep for nearly 50 years ... any thoughts on how to wake them up? No doubt the bishops would be interested.

While I am reluctant to admit it, I think Fr. Dwight has drawn this projection from years of ministering to the faithful and not so faithful. Contracepting catholic women will not suddenly stop taking their pills. The economy is bad and, in their opinions, more children would mean curtailing current family activities in order to feed another child, or two, or ...

The best assessment of the current situation comes from Cardinal George. In case you missed that thread, here is the link.

The HHS Mandate: Cardinal George and the Bishops Are Fighting the Last War

15 posted on 03/03/2012 12:49:46 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

All true, except for ONE PROBLEM.

The state IS Broke. The collapse IS imminent. The “fascist super state” is unsustainable. But this IS their plan.


16 posted on 03/03/2012 1:02:49 PM PST by Waywardson (Carry on! Nothing equals the splendor!)
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To: ml/nj

My assessment of how all this will work out for churches, clergy and religion in the US is pretty much the same if His Excellency is reelected as written by the priest.

One further thing, if he is reelected, I firmly believe within those four years a shooting revolution will happen in the US. Frankly, one of the Russian futurists speculated the US will end up in a civil revolt as early as 2012, so perhaps he was off by a year or four, who knows. There are so many irons in the fire now, church state controversy, Universal Health Plans, the economy, unemployment, hidden inflaton, run away debt, less than functional education, racial uprest, illegal aliens and a man child who sees himself as king and master manipulator compounded by the fact he may not even be eligible for the office are one too many fuses leading to the powder keg.


17 posted on 03/03/2012 1:06:20 PM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Olog-hai

Sad thing is millions of Catholics voted for Obama; they had issue with his belief in “late term abortions” but now they are throwing a hissy fit over forced contraception....and now worried that the once great USA will be like the Soviet Union under Obama Regime.

They weep what they sowed....


18 posted on 03/03/2012 1:11:23 PM PST by Engedi
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To: NYer
This reminds me of "The Children's Story" by James Clavell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children%27s_Story

19 posted on 03/03/2012 1:16:31 PM PST by thecodont
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To: Engedi
“Sad thing is millions of Catholics voted for Obama; they had issue with his belief in “late term abortions” but now they are throwing a hissy fit over forced contraception....and now worried that the once great USA will be like the Soviet Union under Obama Regime.”

They weep what they sowed....

You are absolutely correct. I was stunned on how many of the Catholics i know voted for him, but I seriously doubt that these same catholics have a problem with birth control.

20 posted on 03/03/2012 1:31:30 PM PST by bella1 (Santorum 2012)
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To: NYer

For the most part, this article accurately describes the erstwhile ‘docile’ GOP Republican and/or average conservative American - honest, hardworking - law abiding.

I used to consider myself in that group. I do not any more.

I don’t consider misapplied enforcement, capricious regulation, biased adjudication, illegal confiscation, fascist dictates and socialist agendas as consistent with the Constitution of this country. These people are not Americans and they should be treated as an enemy.


21 posted on 03/03/2012 1:44:19 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: Waywardson
The state IS Broke. The collapse IS imminent. The “fascist super state” is unsustainable. But this IS their plan.

I agree. The Marxists in Russia may have been able to convince people that freezing and starving in the dark was a small step toward the Workers' Paradise, but it's not going to work here. Our Marxists rely on being able to deliver ever-increasing piles of goodies to their constituency, but the well of Other People's Money is nearly exhausted.

I think Fr. Dwight is feeling the effects of his Lenten fasting - if your blood-sugar gets low, you're prone to negativity.

22 posted on 03/03/2012 1:50:32 PM PST by Tax-chick ("If I want someone without merit, I'll simply vote for the Muslim ferret!" ~Da Coyote)
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To: ml/nj; Mouton
Obviously there is danger but the previous Pope stood up to the Soviet Union and prevailed. This one should work to expose Obama, beginning with Arpaio's work, and prevail against the American Marxists.

You need to consider that the pope is a servant to the universal church. This is an American problem and for that, we have local bishops to address the problem. Some of those bishops are also members of the College of Cardinals; hence, they bear a greater responsibility to speak on behalf of the Catholic Church in America.

However, to your credit, I can't help but think of the recent situation in Spain. Following terrorist bombings in Madrid and other cities, the citizens of Spain elected a Socialist government. Like Obama's administration, it proved to be oppressive, especially against the Catholic Church. Subsequently, the pope made two visits to Spain, the most recent one being last August, to attend World Youth Day. Those two visits proved to be sufficient to 'wake up' the sleeping catholics who then voted out the socialists in the most recent election. Let us pray that the American catholics can rise up this year and follow the example of their Spanish counterparts.

23 posted on 03/03/2012 1:50:49 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: South Hawthorne
I think, within 15 years, it will be mandated that Churches preform gay “weddings” or lose their tax exempt status.

Better to lose one's tax exempt status than lose one's soul.

Matthew 16:26

24 posted on 03/03/2012 2:38:01 PM PST by RightField (one of the obstreperous citizens insisting on incorrect thinking - C. Krauthamer)
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To: NYer
You need to consider that the pope is a servant to the universal church. This is an American problem

And the situation in Poland was a Polish problem. If things go south here, as it looks like they might, it will be a dark time for the entire Western World.

Ms. Fluke (rhymes with f**k, I'm told.) is just the tip of the iceberg.

ML/NJ

25 posted on 03/03/2012 2:45:33 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: NYer

Indeed, the process began more than 40 years ago. 1968 was the pivotal year: the year of unrest in Europe and America, the year of Humanae Vitae, when a pope donned the robe of prophet and was ignored. Anyway, back in December, 1965, as the Council was ending, Jacques Maritain had published his own prophecy. In his Peasant of Garonne, the erstwhile darling of the liberals spoke of genuflecting to the World. That is what so-many Catholics has been doing ever since the Council. Bending the knee to his infernal lowness.


26 posted on 03/03/2012 3:09:55 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: NYer

Your post made me wonder about a visit from the pope here sometime near November?


27 posted on 03/03/2012 11:29:50 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: NYer

Thanks for posting this article. It all seems very plausible. The American Catholic Church, which used to be just a term, will become a reality. The constitution is already out the window. If the SCOTUS upholds Obamacare it all falls into place.


28 posted on 03/04/2012 12:55:39 AM PST by MomwithHope (Buy and read Ameritopia by Mark Levin!)
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To: NYer
Sounds familiar.

Right, Henry?

29 posted on 03/04/2012 1:09:36 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer
"They've been asleep for nearly 50 years ... any thoughts on how to wake them up? No doubt the bishops would be interested. "

Sorry for the tardy response. No, I don't have any magic formula, I just know from personal experience that when you or your leader say, "follow me", rather than "go do it", amazing things happen even when there's a good chance those who follow you will be killed for following you. People want to stand up and the Bishops have rolled over for far too long. Maybe it's just blind faith on my part that leads me to have a hunch about this being a turning point. Maybe not.

30 posted on 03/04/2012 5:35:39 AM PST by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: bella1

That should have been “they had no issue”...

You make a good point; different group of Catholics who are opposing the BC issue then the abortion issue.

My sis in law is an extremely devout Catholic, goes to Shrines, prays to the Saints, active in the Church, etc. Yet she voted for Obama. She said Presidents go to war, that is a form of murder, then there is capital punishment (she doesn’t believe in it)...I know, but this is how some Catholics justify voting for Obama, even though they are devout Catholics.


31 posted on 03/04/2012 5:55:33 AM PST by Engedi
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To: Rashputin
Seems our newest cardinal is taking on this challenge and rallying the troops.

There’ll be hell to pay (Cardinal Dolan’s Pill pledge to Obama)

32 posted on 03/04/2012 5:55:40 AM PST by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: Tax-chick
I think Fr. Dwight is feeling the effects of his Lenten fasting - if your blood-sugar gets low, you're prone to negativity.

Lol! I agree.

33 posted on 03/04/2012 5:57:37 AM PST by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: NYer

I really dig what this guys has to say most of the time, kinda disagree with some of this, though. I agreee that it probably won’t go to shooting.

“Clergy training will be paid by the state.”

Can’t see it happening. I can see the state punishing a church legally, by fines and withholding things like “state marriage” from them. No way they pay for any training where they don’t dictate what is taught. They know Marx better than that. They could introduce fines for “hate speech” upon seminarian programs.

“The State will bring in a sensible recognition of the validity of orders between the Christian churches. For practical reasons the Episcopalian priest or the Lutheran minister will be able to exchange ministries with the Catholic priest just as the Episcopalians and Lutherans already do.”

Won’t happen, if for no other reason than the Catholic bishops would never give up or share any authority with another Christian group that doesn’t have apostolic succession. Also, when has the state ever ushered in any type of ecumenical process? Why would they bother when the only churches that would go along are for the lib agenda already?

The only way that could work is with nonCatholic denominations that don’t care about their own authority: some of the mainline Protestant ones. No way do other types of nonCatholic Christians go for it, and no way does even a super liberal crop of Catholic bishops go for it unless they are completely in charge. The Catholic Church does not vote on matters of discipline and doctrine, the mainline Protestant Churches do. The state would never swell the ranks of an organization that doesn’t determine what is wrong and right based on what the majority of members think about it, as far as I can see.

Freegards, thanks for all the pings on FR


34 posted on 03/04/2012 7:15:38 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: NYer

I was crying over something totally idiotic a couple of days ago, because I hadn’t had anything but coffee and spinach all day. Once I had a wheat bun, I felt much better! We can get flaked out this time of year without realizing it.


35 posted on 03/04/2012 8:16:48 AM PST by Tax-chick ("If I want someone without merit, I'll simply vote for the Muslim ferret!" ~Da Coyote)
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To: Ransomed; NYer
I see Barry as being envious of what Mexico did in the twenties when it Constitutionally subordinated all religion to the State.

He knows he can't really change the Constitution, but he also knows he can throw out one regulation that causes a big legal battle, wait until that inhibits Churches for a few years and is struck down, then toss out another regulation that has to be fought through the courts and inhibit Churches for another few years.

That's the the sort of thing environmentalists have done for decades to have their way for year after year in spite of "their way" being unconstitutional or illegal.

36 posted on 03/04/2012 9:12:52 AM PST by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: Engedi

Your sister-inlaw is mentally ill. Her blind-spotting is an extreme form of denial and compartmentalization. Worse yet is using that as a justification for an evil act (voting for Obama). Yeah, I’m no paragon of mental health myself but it tends to make me more moral, not less.


37 posted on 03/04/2012 9:34:52 AM PST by steve86 (I have Schizoid Personality Disorder and am exercising the privileges thereof.)
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To: Engedi
They weep what they sowed....

The word is "reap" (meaning to harvest), not "weep".

Sad thing is millions of Catholics voted for Obama

And millions, like me, didn't. I would cut my hand off with a rusty knife before I would vote for the Boy Prince for dogcatcher, to say nothing of President.

Instead of pointing and scoffing at Catholics who are misled (and many of whom are just plain CINOs), why don't you get on board with supporting those of us who are standing up for what's right?

38 posted on 03/04/2012 11:20:34 AM PST by Campion ("It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins." -- Franklin)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
“As it was in the beginning, so it will be again - home churches”

I believe this is part of the reason that home churches have been growing lately...along with home school.

39 posted on 03/04/2012 4:15:02 PM PST by WorldviewDad (following God instead of culture)
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To: Mouton

I am afraid that will be what will really happen, shooting revolution.


40 posted on 03/04/2012 4:23:18 PM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: NYer

A very sobering & well thought out plan & the sad part is that the Church hierarchy will go along with it as they have been of the opinion that the Democrat party policies of redistribution of wealth at the point of a gun equals Christian charity for over a century.

Now that the guns of the dictator is pointed at them they realize that they were mere pawns & that they in the church’s hierarchy haven’t got the public relations ability or the fighting spirit to grind the fascists that are the Democrat party into the dust.


41 posted on 03/07/2012 1:17:05 PM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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