The Missing Books of the Bible (Ecumenical)

CERC ^ | FR. WILLIAM SAUNDERS

[UCANSEE2]

How shall we discuss this in an ecumenical way, when the article itself disparages non-Roman Bibles and extols Roman Bibles?

I would suggest that we first consider that the true importance of any Bible is the MESSAGE, not the individual words.

Those who insist that their particular Bible is THE exact correct one have missed the point altogether.

There are many versions, and the apocrypha and the more of them one reads, the more one gets the MESSAGE.

All these different BIBLES, all these different INTERPRETATIONS are not a 'problem' with the Bible, they are the answer.

Why? Because, for each of us, the MESSAGE we get from the BIBLE is DIFFERENT, because GOD knew we would each have different NEEDS.

After all, if God were to speak to you (which He does all the time, but few listen because they don't like what he is saying), he would do so in a language that you understood. And he would tell you what YOU and only YOU need to hear.

The Bible is no different.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

If the “message” is different for everyone, does it mean that those who wrest the scriptures to deny the Trinity and promote heresies are “correct” in some relative way?

[Salvation]

The Catholics had the Bible first. So what is the problem?

[Salvation]

Are you saying that all Scripture is NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit? First time I heard that one.

[Salvation]

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

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[verga]

The OPINIONS of individual Catholics mean nothing. It only matters when the college of cardinals speak officially as a group or the Pope speaks ex-cathedra (Which has only happened 4 times in history IIRC). The important thing to remember is that even though each of them may have disagreed with something they submitted themselves humbly and accepted the formal teaching of the Church. The most telling is the matter of Jerome. He did not like several of the books but submitted himself and translated them from the Hebrew and Greek into Latin. To paraphrase Augustine, Rome spoke and the matter was settled.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“The OPINIONS of individual Catholics mean nothing.”

---

What’s ironic about this is that the RCC’s opinion today is that the apocrypha, though part of their “scripture,” aren’t even true anyway, unlike when they made them holy scripture after a millenium where the majority opinion in the West was the exact opposite.

For example, from the Vatican website introduction to Judith:

“Any attempt to read the book directly against the backdrop of Jewish history in relation to the empires of the ancient world is bound to fail. The story was written as a pious reflection on the meaning of the yearly Passover observance. It draws its inspiration from the Exodus narrative (especially Exodus 14:31) and from the texts of Isaiah and the Psalms portraying the special intervention of God for the preservation of Jerusalem. The theme of God’s hand as the agent of this providential activity, reflected of old in the hand of Moses and now in the hand of Judith, is again exemplified at a later time in Jewish synagogue art. God’s hand reaching down from heaven appears as part of the scene at Dura-Europos (before A.D. 256) in paintings of the Exodus, of the sacrifice of Isaac (Gen 22), and of Ezekiel’s valley of dry bones (Eze 37).”

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PCP.HTM

And another, also official Catholic source:

“Judith is a dramatic fictional narrative...” “Because Judith is fiction replete with historical and geographical inaccuracies, it is difficult to date its composition.” (New Jerome Biblical Commentary, Nihil Obstat: Raymond E. Brown, S.S., Joseph A. Fitzmyer, S.J., Roland E. Murphy, O. Carm., Imprimatur: Reverend William J. Kane, Vicar General, Diocese of Washington)

Thus, you want me to believe that Pope Gregory the 1st was in disagreement with his own religion, that the RCC has the right to correct previous Popes and Bishops and create new doctrines, and then has the right to discard those doctrines later on!

As for your paraphrase of Augustine. It would have to be a paraphrase, because there wasn’t even a universal head of Catholicism until Boniface, after Gregory, who petitioned the emperor for the right to call himself such. Gregory explicitly denied such a title, and even asserted that the headship of western Christianity was shared equally by the Bishops of Rome, Antioch and Alexandria.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“The Catholics had the Bible first. So what is the problem?”

Salvation, I’m not sure why you would even believe that, but go ahead.

[Salvation]

What Bible was printed on the Gutenberg press?

Careful with your answer.....LOL!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Salvation,
I sure wish you the absolute best.

[verga]

You so silly.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

And you’re so easy to silence!

[RegulatorCountry]

The spirit of ecumenism appears somewhat lacking in your reply.

[SoConPubbie]

Ping!

Books included in the Bible Ping!

Thought this might interest you two.

[BipolarBob]

"The OPINIONS of individual Catholics mean nothing."

Why couldn't you have stopped with this one sentence?

[BipolarBob]

The Catholics had the Bible first. So what is the problem?

The Jews had the Bible first. Jesus was a Jew, the Disciples were Jews and Paul was a Jew.

[Salvation]

**Paul was a Jew**

Not after he had his encounter with Jesus. The Bible tells us of all he went to Ananias and then immediately began to preach Jesus Christ.

[BipolarBob]

That didn’t change his Jewishness. Your response makes no sense.

[Salvation]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2794188/posts?page=3#3

The answer about the Gutenberg Press.

[Jvette]

Just curious as to how you get that either of those quotes means that Judith is not considered Scripture by the authors.