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Did Comets Cause Ancient American Extinctions?
National Geographic News ^ | 5-6-2008 | Anne Casselman

Posted on 05/07/2008 6:40:10 PM PDT by blam

Did Comets Cause Ancient American Extinctions?

Anne Casselman
for National Geographic News
May 6, 2008

Debate has heated up over a controversial theory that suggests huge comet impacts wiped out North America's large mammals nearly 13,000 years ago.

The hypothesis, first presented in May 2007, proposes that an onslaught of extraterrestrial bodies caused the mass extinction known as the Younger Dryas event and triggered a period of climatic cooling.

The theory has been debated widely since it was introduced, but it drew new scrutiny in March at the annual meeting of the Society for American Archaeology annual meeting in Vancouver, Canada.

Stuart Fiedel from the Louis Berger Group, a private archaeological firm in Richmond, Virginia, argued that the theory fails to address some major questions—like how comet blasts could have wiped out woolly mammoths and saber-toothed cats in North America, while leaving humans unscathed.

"If this [impact] was powerful enough to fricassee mammoths and mastodons and short-faced bears and other big fauna that were on the landscape, you would think that it would have decimated the human population as well—not only by direct thermal shock but by wiping out much of their food source," said Fiedel, who presented his criticisms of the theory to a packed crowd.

"So you should have a marked fall-off or termination of human populations, and we don't see that.

"Ultimately the judgment is supposed to be based on whether this thing works when you throw it at the data, and vice versa," he said.

"And right now I don't think some fairly obvious things are explained by it."

Global Cooling Mystery

No matter how it happened, experts agree that Earth got a shock to its system 12,900 years ago.

The world was in the middle of thawing out from the last ice age, when the Younger Dryas event inexplicably plunged it back into near glacial temperatures. This anomalous period lasted for about 1,300 years.

One widely accepted hypothesis suggests that melting ice sheets and glacial lakes 12,000 years ago dumped so much meltwater into the oceans that it disrupted ocean circulation. This in turn cooled much of the planet, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. Also around this time, large mammals including mammoths, mastodons, horses, camels, and saber-toothed cats went extinct in North America.

Previous hypotheses have suggested that early humans wiped out the large animals in a prolonged act of slaughter referred to by scientists as overkill.

Enlarge Photo

Also around this time, the prehistoric Clovis culture disappeared in North America, while other ancient cultures such as the Folsom began to flourish.

James Kennett, a geologist at the University of California, Santa Barbara, is one of the main proponents of the comet-impact hypothesis.

He said the theory is consistent in explaining and linking these various phenomena.

"We suggest it's a series of aerial bursts, more of a multiple Tunguska event … like a shotgun," he said, referring to the explosion of an extraterrestrial object over Siberia in 1908.

This would also explain evidence of fires across swaths of North America, Kennett said.

He and his colleagues have also found widespread and abundant minuscule diamonds and magnetic particles in the layer of Earth that dates to this time.

These features were formed in the extremely hot and high-pressure environment created by the series of explosions, Kennett suggests.

"It's obviously an outrageous hypothesis … in the sense that it wasn't predicted—it has come out of left field," Kennett said.

"But all I can say is that I don't know of any other process that can account for the wide display of data that we have and continue to generate other than some kind of an extraterrestrial impact."

South American Quandary

In Fiedel's critique of the theory, he also cited evidence from the archaeological record that he said is inconsistent with the comet hypothesis.

"There's the apparent lack of synchrony with what goes on in South America," he noted.

Radiocarbon dating and other data suggest that the megafauna of South America survived for centuries after their cousins up north were wiped out, Fiedel said.

"You have to ask what kind of blast might peter out by the time it gets to Mexico and not have much effect on South America," Fiedel said.

Kennett agreed that this could be seen as a discrepancy.

"South America is a critical testing point of [the theory]," he said.

But the northern and southern extinction dates based on radiocarbon techniques could be viewed as synchronous, he argued, given their margins of error.

More data need to be collected from the region to better understand the exact timing of the extinctions in South America, he added.

Gary Haynes is an anthropologist at the University of Nevada in Reno.

He said he isn't sure these questions could ever be answered based on radiocarbon data.

"[The Younger Dryas event] is occurring around the time [when] it's almost impossible to get precise dates, because of radiocarbon variations in the atmosphere," Haynes said.

An increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide during the Younger Dryas event is believed to have made radiocarbon dating from the period imprecise.

"That's always going to be very hard to decide for sure," said Haynes.

"So talking about causation based on that sort of imprecision, you can't do it."

For his part, Kennett pointed out that the theory is still in its early days.

At the moment, only one academic paper about the theory has been published. More are in the works, he said, based on the additional data and analyses he and his colleagues have done over the past year.

"This group is the first group that's ever systematically carried out any examination for the possibility of an extraterrestrial impact at about the time of the megafaunal extinction," he said.

"Now, basically, we are in the mode of testing the hypothesis. It's going to take some time."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: american; ancient; catastrophism; clovis; clovisimpact; cogent; comets; extinction; gitonthebusbeotch; godsgravesglyphs; impact; interesting

1 posted on 05/07/2008 6:40:10 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.
(I don't see much difference in this and earlier articles)(?)
2 posted on 05/07/2008 6:41:15 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

I scan headlines on here and 9 times out of 10 I can tell which are your threads.

They tend to be the more cogent and interesting.

Thank you.


3 posted on 05/07/2008 6:45:16 PM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: blam
Did Comets Cause Ancient American Extinctions?

No.

A most likely cause was an ancient and earth minded ancestor of Albert Gore.

4 posted on 05/07/2008 6:46:01 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: blam

“”You have to ask what kind of blast might peter out by the time it gets to Mexico and not have much effect on South America,”

Well, for one thing, an explosion’s force falls off as the cube of the distance (not the square) so the difference between Michigan and Michoacan could be considerable.

Tunguska flattened square miles when it hit yet Petrograd was unscathed.


5 posted on 05/07/2008 7:08:22 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow
I agree.

I think it is interesting that not one Clovis Point has been found to have been made after this event.

6 posted on 05/07/2008 7:20:48 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Perhaps the megafaunas turned gay and lesbian.


7 posted on 05/07/2008 7:22:13 PM PDT by buck jarret
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To: buck jarret

At lease Noah saw it coming and found a solution.

Who here has built an arc; or would we need just some good flood insurance, like these folks had?

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5if9UIMmRHGQXvC7kXfFeM6rzUr_w

A comet hits the earth, and there would be at least 40 days and nights of cyclones and hurricanes!


8 posted on 05/07/2008 7:31:17 PM PDT by goron
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To: buck jarret
Photobucket
9 posted on 05/07/2008 7:38:23 PM PDT by redstateconfidential (If you are the smartest person in the room,you are hanging out with the wrong people.)
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To: blam

I've used this graph on occasion to show people that Al Gore's CO2-temperature correlation is really a REVERSED one. Because one can clearly see that temperature increases (blue line) actually PRECEEDED CO2 increases (red line) all throughout this 400,000 year time interval. In fact, by an of average 800 years! Yet Gore makes the dishonest claim that it was CO2 that warmed the earth to get us out these past 4 glaciations (roughly every 100,000, the result of periodic changes in Earth's orbit and spin axis). BP = before present.

In any case, perhaps this same graph can be of use in this current discussion?

10 posted on 05/07/2008 7:42:28 PM PDT by Eye On The Left
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To: blam

bump


11 posted on 05/07/2008 7:47:08 PM PDT by VOA
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To: blam

On second thought, the graph really isn’t that useful, even when zoomed 200%. I had hoped the sharp post ice age temp decrease (at ~13,000 yrs) might show up on it.


12 posted on 05/07/2008 7:50:54 PM PDT by Eye On The Left
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To: blam

An Obama Presidency would be a good time for another comet strike.


13 posted on 05/07/2008 7:53:15 PM PDT by montag813
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To: blam
No.

Next idiotic brainstorm, please.

14 posted on 05/07/2008 7:58:05 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: blam
He and his colleagues have also found widespread and abundant minuscule diamonds and magnetic particles in the layer of Earth that dates to this time.

I agree that we archaeologists are missing much vital information when we simply screen the dirt to isolate (artifacts or whatever) and then toss that soil back in the hole without examining it with every possible analytical tool.

Of course, there is that ever-present limitation of cost... :-(

15 posted on 05/07/2008 8:15:13 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: blam

Possibly NASA could arrange for a comet to hit Al Gore.

The classic two birds with one stone.


16 posted on 05/07/2008 8:25:15 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: blam
I think it is interesting that not one Clovis Point has been found to have been made after this event.

I watched a program about this just the other night on one of the science related channels.

I was fascinated to learn that there are more Clovis period settlements and Clovis spear points discovered along the Delmarva peninsular (Chesapeake Bay regions of Maryland and Virginia) than found in all of the entire SW and no evidence of any Clovis activity in the Delmarva after the Younger Dryas.

Also Clovis type spear points are not found on the Siberian side of the Bearing Straights. A much different technology and materials were used (on the Siberian side spear points are made of bone with sharp flint inserts vs. Clovis points made entirely of flint with channels carved for insertion into spears) so that would lend some credence to one theory that Clovis points were developed after a Bearing Straights – Asian migration or…as some spear points with a very similar to design and materials to Clovis points have been discovered in France that date to or date somewhat before the earliest Eastern Clovis settlements, there is a theory that says there were two separate migrations, one from Europe via an Atlantic crossing that were the Clovis and the other across the land bridge and that the Younger Dryas forced the Eastern Clovis culture to migrate West and perhaps melding with and into the Asian immigrant culture.
17 posted on 05/07/2008 8:28:41 PM PDT by Caramelgal (Rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings, not on the words or superficial interpretations)
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To: blam
I think it is interesting that not one Clovis Point has been found to have been made after this event.

I'll have to ask Mike Collins (the Gault Site) about that one...

18 posted on 05/07/2008 8:42:05 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: blam

Whatever it was, I suspect that its effects were just as pronounced in South America, possibly wiping out either an ancient Egyptian quality civilization, or the last of the giant “terror birds”, very large, predatory birds that might have existed as late as 15,000 years ago. Or both, as they might have co-existed.

When Indians later occupied the area, they had no idea who built the great cities there.


19 posted on 05/07/2008 8:49:23 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: blam
One widely accepted hypothesis suggests that melting ice sheets and glacial lakes 12,000 years ago dumped so much meltwater into the oceans that it disrupted ocean circulation. This in turn cooled much of the planet, especially in the Northern Hemisphere.

Sounds like an AGW kook theory to me. Global warming melted the glaciers which then caused global cooling. Somehow I have a hard time buying into the warming causes cooling theory.

20 posted on 05/07/2008 8:52:25 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: blam

The Houston Comets? No, the WNBA hasn’t been around that long.


21 posted on 05/07/2008 9:04:27 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith


22 posted on 05/07/2008 9:33:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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y’mean, like these? ;’)

Ancient Atomic Warfare - Religious texts and geological evidence
New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947 | Ivan T. Sanderson
Posted on 07/22/2002 5:01:00 PM EDT by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/720501/posts

Supernova debris found on Earth
News@Nature.com | 02 November 2004 | Mark Peplow
Posted on 11/24/2004 4:22:08 PM EST by Phsstpok
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1287848/posts

Supernova Storm Wiped Out Mammoths?
Discovery News | 09/28/05 | Jennifer Viegas
Posted on 10/05/2005 2:47:27 AM EDT by planetesimal
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1496844/posts

Supernova Storm Wiped Out Mammoths?
Discovery News | Sept. 28, 2005 | Jennifer Viegas
Posted on 10/17/2005 11:57:32 AM EDT by Fzob
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1503957/posts

Scientist: Comets Blasted Early Americans
ap on Yahoo | 10/28/05 | Meg Kinnard - ap
Posted on 10/28/2005 6:33:11 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1511330/posts

Terrestrial Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times
Mammoth Trumpet | March 2001 | Firestone/Topping
Posted on 07/24/2006 3:03:03 AM EDT by ForGod’sSake
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1671134/posts

Did comet start deadly cold snap?
Canada.com | Monday, May 14, 2007 | Margaret Munro
Posted on 05/16/2007 6:00:33 PM EDT by Mike Darancette
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834769/posts

Diamonds tell tale of comet that killed off the cavemen
Guardian | 5-20-07 | Robin McKie
Posted on 05/20/2007 7:50:33 PM EDT by Renfield
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1836898/posts

Catastrophic Comet Chilled and Killed Ice Age Beasts (and Clovis people)
Live Science | 05/21/07 | Jeanna Bryner
Posted on 05/22/2007 1:16:48 AM EDT by TigerLikesRooster
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1837610/posts

Oregon Researchers Involved In New Clovis-Age Impact Theory (More)
Eureka Alert
Posted on 05/23/2007 5:30:19 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1838660/posts

Comet May Have Doomed Mammoths
Red Orbit | 5-26-07 | Betsy Mason
Posted on 05/26/2007 9:12:53 AM EDT by Renfield
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1840136/posts

Ice Age Ends Smashingly: Did A Comet Blow Up Over Eastern Canada? (More) (Carolina Bays)
Science News | 6-1-2007 | Sid Perkins
Posted on 06/02/2007 6:14:23 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1843831/posts

Climate alarmists lose another piece of evidence
enterstageright | 6/11/2007 | Dennis T. Avery
Posted on 06/11/2007 1:11:38 PM EDT by Neville72
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1848385/posts

Comet Theory Collides With Clovis Research,
May Explain Disappearance of Ancient People
University of South Carolina(USC News) | June 28, 2007 | Staff
Posted on 08/04/2007 2:29:34 AM EDT by ForGod’sSake
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1876220/posts

NSF Press Release:
Comet May Have Exploded Over North America 13,000 Years Ago
National Science Foundation Press Release | August 14, 2007 | Cheryl Dybas, NSF
Posted on 08/15/2007 8:32:04 PM EDT by baynut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1881784/posts

Research Team Says Extraterrestrial Impact To Blame For Ice Age Extinctions (More)
Eureka Alert | Northern Arizona University - Lisa Nelson
Posted on 09/25/2007 3:58:19 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1902003/posts

Cosmic blast may have killed off megafauna
Scientists say early humans doomed, too
Boston Globe | September 27, 2007 | Colin Nickerson
Posted on 09/25/2007 9:45:11 PM EDT by baynut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1902154/posts

Cosmic blast may have killed off megafauna
Scientists say early humans doomed, too
Boston Globe | September 25, 2007 | Colin Nickerson
Posted on 09/26/2007 9:11:48 AM EDT by baynut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1902361/posts

Evidence for an extraterrestrial impact 12,900 years ago
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
October 9, 2007, Vol. 104 | September 27, 2007 | R. B. Firestone, et. al.
Posted on 09/30/2007 1:14:28 PM EDT by baynut
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1904474/posts

The End of Eden: The Comet That Changed Civilization
amazon | Oct. 8, 2007
Posted on 10/09/2007 2:47:23 AM EDT by doug from upland
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1908525/posts


23 posted on 05/07/2008 9:34:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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Comet/Asteroid Impacts and Human Society Comet/Asteroid Impacts
and Human Society

ed by Peter T. Bobrowsky
and Hans Rickman

intro (PDF)
due to links here


24 posted on 05/07/2008 9:35:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: blam

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Blam. You're right, not too diff'. Must be NG has started to read through FR threads. ;') List above. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


25 posted on 05/07/2008 9:37:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: TXnMA
"I'll have to ask Mike Collins (the Gault Site) about that one..."

It's true.

26 posted on 05/07/2008 9:37:26 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: 75thOVI; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; ..
Thanks blam. To all, an update topic of sorts.
 
Catastrophism
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

27 posted on 05/07/2008 9:37:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: Caramelgal
Yup. I saw that program too. Pretty good. Those are Dennis Sanford's ideas...he is the author of the below linked article:

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)

BTW, there have been more Clovis points found east of the Mississippi than to the west of it.

28 posted on 05/07/2008 9:46:45 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
"It's true."

I don't doubt your data -- but...

Although Gault (see http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/gault/index.html) here in Texas is one of the more (the most?) productive Clovis sites anywhere, somehow, I find that I've been "sidetracked" by events (and the plenitude of historic sites in NE TX) into near 100% concentration on historic archaeology of late. I'm still wondering how this lithic technologist gradually wound up immersed in GPS/satellite-mapping pioneer wagon trails, homesites, etc... :-}

Consequently, I've lost track of recent thinking on subjects like Clovis, etc. Fortunately, Texas resident geomorphologist/archaeologist and Clovis expert, (and now owner of much of Gault) Dr. Michael B. Collins, is a really nice guy and friend. You've just reminded me that I should contact Mike and find out what is currently going on in the Clovis (and ?pre-? Clovis) world.

When I catch Mike in his office at TARL, I'll also ask him if the soils in the Clovis horizon at Gault have been examined for the evidence mentioned in the article.

29 posted on 05/08/2008 5:34:35 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: CurlyDave

Helen Thomas surely remembers those days, somebody should just ask her what happened.


30 posted on 05/09/2008 9:08:34 PM PDT by rdl6989
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