Combat Vehicles in East Ukraine Raise Russian Flag

Wall Street Journal ^ | 4/16/14 | JAMES MARSON

[jimbo123]

Soldier Says Ukrainian Unit Switched to Pro-Russian Side, But Can't Be Confirmed

SLOVYANSK, Ukraine—An armored column of military vehicles flying a Russian flag and carrying dozens of heavily armed fighters motored into this eastern Ukrainian city early Wednesday, a day after the Ukrainian army launched an operation to clear out pro-Russian separatists who had taken control of cities in the region.

It wasn't immediately clear whether the men were Russian soldiers or local militants who had gotten their hands on military vehicles. A soldier on one of the vehicles said the unit was part of the 25th brigade of Ukraine's airborne forces that had switched sides and was joining the pro-Russian forces, but that couldn't be immediately confirmed.

All of the men appeared to be wearing military uniforms without insignia, similar to the heavily armed uniformed men who have seized government building around the region. Ukraine's defense minister declined to comment on the possible defection at a parliamentary meeting in Kiev, local media outlets reported. The headquarters for the 25th brigade did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment.

The episode and others underscore the difficulties faced by the new government in Kiev as it seeks to avoid bloody clashes and as it remains unclear how tight a grip protesters hold. Some U.S. military officials have expressed concerns about the readiness of the Ukrainian armed forces for urban combat and have suggested that the deployment in the region appears disorganized.

[lodi90]

How does Russian Army commandos assaulting and murdering Ukrainians help Ukraine?

[tcrlaf]

“What you are seeing a civil government in Ukraine now.”

That statement is in opposition to all of the facts on the ground.

The “Civil” government can’t seem to project much power beyond Kiev.

[lodi90]

The Russian Army is on the ground in Ukraine assaulting and shooting. No banderistas in sight, FRiend.

[tcrlaf]

So, that video’d line of older women linked arm-in-arm in front of the APC’s in Kramatorsk to stop the column were the Russian Special Spetnaz Old Ladies Brigade??

C’mon dude. ..
The facts on the ground aren’t matching the shrillness of your propaganda.

[lodi90]

Where those old ladies who assaulted that armory and other strategic targets last weekend? No. There was no “unrest” in this area until the Russian Army commandos arrived.

[SADMILLIE]

I am opposed to any money or lives being spent here. It is none of our business. The McCain crazies are so incensed about a border 6,000 miles from here but do nothing about the invasion of our border out of the south!!

[Rashputin]

"In a sign of apparent desperation in Kiev before the defense ministry released its statement, Serhiy Sobolev, the head of a parliamentary faction, claimed the men riding the vehicles into Slovyansk were actually double-agents trying to trick pro-Russian forces into letting them into the heart of the seized territory."

Interesting.

Those were double agents who weren't double agents. But the weren't really double agents because they're now Russians operatives. Which pretty much means that any Ukrainian who doesn't agree with the government is labeled a Russian operative by the government.

I don't think the people "in charge" in the Ukraine have any idea what's going on and are just spouting what they think will get them outside sympathy and aide so they can stay in power. Next they'll be blaming the failure of their "anti-terrorist" fiasco on turncoat officers who swayed their poor, feeble minded, troops.

They sound like they're using the exact same script the MB used in Egypt when the people finally turned against them. Just substitute "Russia" for "Israel" and "Communist" for "Zionist" and the MB news releases are almost exactly like what the EU/US backed MB were spewing when Egyptians wouldn't put up with them any more.

There was no leader with enough support to keep mobs from throwing out the government rather than waiting a few months for elections but now we're supposed to believe that the real problem is that the opponents of the current "leadership" won't wait on elections?

The people who the mob threw out were imposing their will by force and now the real problem is that the new guys can't impose their will by force because the troops desert?

They changed the rules of the game, overthrew the government rather than waiting on the elections, and now they want everyone who disagrees with them to play by the old rules as if there were no overthrow of the government?

Please, in for a penny, in for a pound, they made their own bed now let them lie in it.

[keat]

I think we can conclude we haven't a clue what was going on...

Except that Obama's long history of indifference, weakness and ineptitude continues to make the world a more dangerous place for everyone.

[Zhang Fei]

Confirmed:

Defense Ministry confirms pro-Russian separatists have captured Ukrainian armored vehicles

4:28 p.m. -- The Ukrainian Defense Ministry has confirmed that "Russian saboteurs" have captured six Ukrainian armed vehicles in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk.

The ministry says that local residents of Kramatorsk blocked the armored vehicles on the morning of April 16. "As a result of the blocking, extremists seized the vehicles and the column [of armored vehicles] headed towards Sloviansk," said the Defense Ministry's statement.

The vehicles are currently in Sloviansk. The ministry says that the men controlling them are "not related to the Armed Forces of Ukraine."

Whether Ukrainian troops initially driving the armored vehicles switched sides and joined the pro-Russian separatists remains unclear. -- Isaac Webb

[Zhang Fei]

So that means you DON’T want the Ukrainian people to vote for their own regional governors? You want them all to be appointed by Oleh Tyahnybok or Dmytro Yarosh? How is that going to help Ukraine?

Didn't Putin ban the election of Russia's governors? If it's good enough for Russia...

[littleharbour]

The Ukranians have to demonstrate that they have the will to defend themselves. If they’re not willing to fight for their own country then their pleas for Western assistance are going to fall on deaf ears. I’m sure they’re concerned about another Hungary or Czechoslovaki but they have to take that chance. The alternative is an eventual Russian annexation of half the country without a fight.

[mac_truck]

Western Ukraine?

Don’t you mean Eastern Poland? :^)

[icwhatudo]

So we should be happy they are going to have an election in Kiev?

Didn’t they have an election last time?

What happens if they don’t like the result this time either?

Will it be ok (again) to build barricades and take over government buildings? Aren’t we being told its wrong in East Ukraine but was ok in West Ukraine?

I guess its easier to scream Putinista than to explain the hypocrisy.

[caww]

You r-e-a-l-l-y summed this up very very well.... If people grasp the Kiev Gov. wants to retain their power, yet knowing the May election is around the corner, they will do whatever is necessary to maintain their power and continue to consolidate their power within the Gov. It was quite something when they announced they would NOT be going further with the EU rather retain Ukraine as an Independant nation governing itself. But by doing so they alienated the Russian citizenery who sees the Kiev Gov. for exactly what it is, knowing they would be sidelined and fully excluded from any political representation.

This is what happened to a Russian Representative in the Kiev Parliment recently when he attempted to explain the citizens concern of how the people were being treated.

Free and Fair elections! ROTFL.....They can't even control their parliment let alone govern and control the citizen in the street!.......... This week the Party of Regions Presidential candidate got slammed with thrown items, inked and floured by Maiden's thugs....This is why there will not be fair and effective elections...nor fair representation of the citizens.....and also why the Russians are claiming they want to completely disengage with the Kiev Government and be on their own in the cities they have attempted to take control of.

This is what occurs when a Representative of the Ukraine Gov. speaks in Russian and/or attempts to support the Russian population In kiev. ...

[BradyLS]

You said it. We have no dog in the fight over who is coming and going over Ukraine’s borders. If the EU wants to go to war over Ukraine’s sovereignty, they can lead the way!

[familyop]

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[wetphoenix]

Let me inject a bit of reality here.
There is a large and mostly docile Ukrainian population who are largely indifferent to both Russia and EU. Their idea is that Ukrainian government has to work on stable relations with both for the nation to benefit.
There are also two quite a small distinctive groups of moderate liberals and socialists who are leaning towards Europe or Russia respectively, mostly misunderstanding both. European-leaning thinks that Europe is still a Heaven of Freedom the way US was before Great Society. Russian-leaning are generally leftists, who aren’t realize that Russia is not a communist country anymore.
Both groups has a very tiny cores of radical fanatics who are commies or nazis respectively and hatred is deep between them.
The majority of population dislikes both radical groups and distrusts both EU and Russia.
On the other hand Eastern Ukrainians fear the Nazis more than they dislike commies, and they see Russia as a better alternative (to the point of becoming a state of Russia for more protection) because they suspect EU behind the Nazis.
In Western Ukraine situation is directly opposite.
Both Russia and EU are doing their best to throw more crap at this fan.
That is what makes Ukraine so messed up.

[Uncle Miltie]

I believe all that.

Which make Putin’s invasions so wrong.

[wetphoenix]

Sure, just like meddling by Obama and EU.