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The Problem with Cliven Bundy: His plight is sympathetic; his actions are hard to defend.
National Review ^ | 04/16/2014 | Charles C.W. Cooke

Posted on 04/16/2014 9:56:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind



Which is to say that the stirring defenses of Bundy to which both Powerline’s John Hinderaker and National Review’s own Kevin D. Williamson have committed this week are all well and good, but that they ultimately conflate two questions that no ordered republic can have conflated for too long. Hinderaker rightly contends that the federal government has “squeezed the ranchers in southern Nevada by limiting the acres on which their cattle can graze” — the effect of which “has been to drive the ranchers out of business”; that, preposterously, “the federal government owns more than 80 percent of the state of Nevada,” a number common in many Western states; and that, ultimately, “Cliven Bundy is just one more victim of progress and changing mores.” These grievances serve as an indictment of the regulatory state, yes. But they do not serve as an executioner for our ailing rule of law. If Cliven Bundy’s behavior is legitimized by the gravity of his circumstances, how many others may follow suit, singing his name as they go?

Hinderaker concedes at the outset that “legally, Bundy doesn’t have a leg to stand on,” that Bundy’s claim that the federal government does not own the land is flagrantly incorrect, and that Bundy has been relegated to defending himself because “no lawyer could make that argument.” (I’d quibble with the last point, but perhaps we know different lawyers.) Then he suggests that Bundy didn’t have a chance in the “age of Obama.” This is a strange claim to make. The rule of law, as my editor Rich Lowry noted yesterday morning, has been extolled by presidents for centuries if not millennia, among them Abraham Lincoln, who hoped that “reverence for the laws” would “become the political religion of the nation” and that “the old and the young, the rich and the poor, the grave and the gay, of all sexes and tongues, and colors and conditions,” would “sacrifice unceasingly upon its altars.” Are we really to believe that the government’s backing up its rules with force is unique to Obama? And why would we imagine that Bundy would have a chance if he doesn’t have a case?

That there is a point beyond which the state may not advance without expecting legitimate pushback is acknowledged by even the most committed of the state’s enablers. Indeed, this principle is baked into America’s instruction manual — albeit with a caveat. “Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive,” the Declaration reads, “it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.” But it also chides the hotheaded among us, inviting us to remember that “prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes.” As far as we know, Bundy is not set on starting a revolution. (Although any shots fired would, certainly, have been heard around the world.) But then he isn’t set on civil disobedience as we understand it, either. There is a compact that governs disobedience, and it might be said to follow an old Spanish proverb: “Take what you want but pay for it.” Bundy did not ready himself for prison in order to make a point, but hoped that his obstinacy would lead to a direct change in policy with no consequences to himself. He wished, in other words, to win — nothing more, nothing less. That, in a vacuum, his winning looks good to limited-government types such as myself remains beside the point. If he can opt out, who cannot?

Setting out to make “the case for a little sedition,” my colleague Kevin Williamson ended up making a whole lot more, relying for his rhetorical firepower on wholesale revolutionaries Mohandas Gandhi and George Washington — men, lest you forget, who succeeded in bringing down the existing order in its entirety. “Mr. Bundy’s stand should not be construed as a general template for civic action,” Williamson writes, thereby demonstrating the problem rather neatly: When you change the government, you do not need to worry about setting a precedent; when you merely disobey it, you are setting yourself above a system that remains in force. Respectfully, I would venture that Williamson is here suggesting that he is to be the arbiter of legitimate rebellion — a peculiar position for a libertarian concerned with the integrity of the political process to adopt.

When can one refuse to obey the law without expecting to bring the whole thing down? Certainly such instances exist: I daresay that I would not stand idly by quoting John Adams if a state reintroduced slavery or herded a religious group into ovens or even indulged in wholesale gun confiscation. But Bundy’s case is not remotely approaching these thresholds. Are we to presume that if the government is destroying one’s livelihood or breaking one’s ties with the past, one can revolt? If so, one suspects that half the country would march on Washington, with scimitars drawn, and that West Virginia would invade the Environmental Protection Agency.

Speaking in 1838, Abraham Lincoln argued,

When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, nor that grievances may not arise, for the redress of which, no legal provisions have been made. — I mean to say no such thing.

Nor I. As government expands and civil society retreats, bad laws pile atop bad laws, and the cause for dissent is magnified and deepened. Cliven Bundy has been dealt a raw hand by a system that is deaf to his grievances and ham-fisted in its response. But this is a republic, dammit — and those who hope to keep it cannot pick and choose the provisions with which they are willing to deign to comply.

— Charles C. W. Cooke is a staff writer at National Review.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Nevada
KEYWORDS: abuseofpower; blm; bundy; clivenbundy; nevada; sympathetic
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To: HiTech RedNeck
I think some people are getting the US Constitution and the USSR Constitution mixed up again.
Socialist property in the U.S.S.R. exists either in the form of state property (the possession of the whole people), or in the form of cooperative and collective-farm property (property of a collective farm or property of a cooperative association).
Article 5, 1936 “Stalin Constitution”

State property, i. e. the common property of the Soviet people, is the principal form of socialist property. The land, its minerals, waters, and forests are the exclusive property of the state. The state owns the basic means of production in industry, construction, and agriculture; means of transport and communication; the banks; the property of state-run trade organisations and public utilities, and other state-run undertakings; most urban housing; and other property necessary for state purposes.
Article 11, 1977 “Brezhnev Constitution”
That is what the defenders of the BLM on here are justifying and acceding to, essentially.
81 posted on 04/16/2014 11:21:20 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Like I said, Judge for a day.


82 posted on 04/16/2014 11:23:31 AM PDT by Usagi_yo (Islamunism = Facism + Islam : Islamunist = someone that adheres to Islamunism.)
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To: SeekAndFind
 photo FEDERALLANDINUS_zpseb2b4c97.png

The United States government has direct ownership of almost 650 million acres of land (2.63 million square kilometers) -- nearly 30% of its total territory. These federal lands are used as military bases or testing grounds, nature parks and reserves and Indian reservations, or are leased to the private sector for commercial exploitation (e.g. forestry, mining, agriculture). They are managed by different administrations, such as the Bureau of Land Management, the US Forest Service, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the US Department of Defense, the US Army Corps of Engineers, the US Bureau of Reclamation or the Tennessee Valley Authority.

The above map details the percentage of state territory owned by the federal government.


83 posted on 04/16/2014 11:23:37 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Like I said, Judge for a day.


84 posted on 04/16/2014 11:23:48 AM PDT by Usagi_yo (Islamunism = Facism + Islam : Islamunist = someone that adheres to Islamunism.)
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To: piytar

I was saying that because we are all equal under the law, and the law does not apply to Holder, then it does not apply to Bundy. Or me.


85 posted on 04/16/2014 11:26:33 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Usagi_yo

And there are no unjust judges? Even when Jesus Himself spoke of their existence? Those unjust judges exercise their unjust privilege for far longer than a day.


86 posted on 04/16/2014 11:29:40 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Usagi_yo

How about, stepping up to the plate of WE THE PEOPLE for a day. That’s whose name is at the top of the Constitution. This is the power that created the document by which the judges are appointed. It is higher by two steps than judges.


87 posted on 04/16/2014 11:29:50 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"So, owning Federal Land is NOT a power delegated to the United States by the constitution?"

Where in the Constitution does it say that when a Territory enters the Union to become a State that the Federal Government gets to claim any part of it as Federal Land?

The way it is supposed to work is the Government is to deal with the State government who represent the citizens of the new state to work out Federal claims on plots of land (For Federal Buildings and such). There has long been a claim the Feds fudged that part of the deal on many of the Western states when they were brought into the Union.

There is one school of thought this was done so that the Politiclowns of that time could deal out land for votes/campaign contributions/graft to Railroads/Big Money interests and the like.

88 posted on 04/16/2014 11:31:08 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Mad Dawgg

As of March 2012, out of the 2.27 billion acres in the country, about 28% of the total is claimed by the Federal government according to the Interior Department (including over 80% of the State of Nevada ).

If what you say is the correct understanding of the intent of the framers of the Constitution, the Federal government been violating it for over a hundred years with the complicity of the states.


89 posted on 04/16/2014 11:35:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: Olog-hai

REally? Were did you find that in what I wrote. Is it some magical gift you think you have?


90 posted on 04/16/2014 11:37:33 AM PDT by Usagi_yo (Islamunism = Facism + Islam : Islamunist = someone that adheres to Islamunism.)
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To: Usagi_yo
Building on what you said here, the “judge for a day” comment is an attack on whom? Sounds like an assault on the defenders of Mr. Bundy to me, because there just cannot be any justification of the BLM’s actions even by whatever “law” has come into existence (possibly by ex post facto means). Think about the desert tortoise excuse—the BLM euthanizing those that they claim to be “protecting”. So by extension, those who sit as judges de jure are superior in judgment to your titular “judge(s) for a day” instead of instead presiding over an unwieldy kritocracy?
91 posted on 04/16/2014 11:44:05 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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Feds accused of leaving trail of wreckage after Nevada ranch standoff

By William La Jeunesse
·Published April 16, 2014

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fn


92 posted on 04/16/2014 11:46:03 AM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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“On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that “illegal structures” on Bundy’s ranch — water tanks, water lines and corrals — had to be removed to “restore” the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation.”


93 posted on 04/16/2014 11:47:34 AM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Well what should those lands then be called? They aren’t Nevada, then. Somebody tell the map makers please!

The federal government owns property within all 50 states (far more out west than in the original 13 states, but it owns some everywhere).

94 posted on 04/16/2014 11:52:58 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: SeekAndFind

The crux of the problem is that the federal govenment did not cede control of 86% of the land mass of nevada to the state when it was formed. hence the federal government violated the constitution which required the feds to do so., and if necessary negotiate with the state of nevada for particular federal use of the land, as specified in the Constitution. Article 1, section 8, clause 17...


95 posted on 04/16/2014 11:58:42 AM PDT by zzwhale
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Because of the constant hypocritical nature of such an assumption, as I witness daily on FR from people I wish would know better.

I’m more concerned with this case than Bundy’s case:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/15/families-fight-utah-adoption-law/

Where the law was passed exclusively to deny rights to people.

and Ruby ridge, Waco to some extent, and The Scott murder over adjacent land in San Bernardino.

The Bundy case may be just misapplied law, or even abuse of office by pushing a secret agenda. I can’t tell because all the table pounding going on.

An example on how to act when you have a dispute like this with the government is:

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2014/01/point-reyes-national-seashore-oyster-farm-take-case-us-supreme-court24524

Where I believe the Oyster Farm owners are clearly wrong as it was leased land with no obligation to renew. However, they are proceeding correctly in taking it up the through the courts.

Shake your fist and brandish weapons at the government at your own peril.


96 posted on 04/16/2014 12:01:41 PM PDT by Usagi_yo (Islamunism = Facism + Islam : Islamunist = someone that adheres to Islamunism.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The crux of the problem is that the federal govenment did not cede control of 86% of the land mass of nevada to the state when it was formed. hence the federal government violated the constitution which required the feds to do so., and if necessary negotiate with the state of nevada for particular federal use of the land, as specified in the Constitution. Article 1, section 8, clause 17...


97 posted on 04/16/2014 12:03:22 PM PDT by zzwhale
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To: Olog-hai

This is not the first time we’ve been through this. You may rebut anything I have to say, with facts or your own opinion for that matter, but please don’t make stuff up that you think I said or think I meant because that is your Modus Operandi.

Please include Full quotes when replying to my opinions and statements of facts.


98 posted on 04/16/2014 12:06:36 PM PDT by Usagi_yo (Islamunism = Facism + Islam : Islamunist = someone that adheres to Islamunism.)
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To: Usagi_yo

Even the studied George Washington hit a limit.


99 posted on 04/16/2014 12:10:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Usagi_yo

How about you “Full Quoting” what you attempt to only link to? Why not hold you to the same standard you hold others to as well? Then you can talk about “HYPOCRISY.”


100 posted on 04/16/2014 12:12:08 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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