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The Problem with Cliven Bundy: His plight is sympathetic; his actions are hard to defend.
National Review ^ | 04/16/2014 | Charles C.W. Cooke

Posted on 04/16/2014 9:56:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: T-Bird45
The headline captures my feelings exactly. I understand there is a lot of nuance, along with judicial and historical twists and turns, that bear on this and I’m still open to hearing more. Somewhere along the line, there was a missed opportunity to sort this out, probably about the time Bundy decided to represent himself before the court. Still listening and reading, though...

Try to listen to Mark Levin's 1st hour from yesterday. It is very eye opening.

Mark definitely get's to the central point -- it is a direct abuse of power by the Feds.

Mark masterfully exposed the evils of those in government. He goes through the actions of the Feds over the past few decades that lead up to the events of the past few weeks.He says that he would not advise those to ignore a court order but he says the greater evil is the abuse of power.

I concluded that Mark admires Bundy for standing up to an abusive government.

21 posted on 04/16/2014 10:10:22 AM PDT by sand88 (We can never legislate our way back to Liberty)
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To: DoodleDawg

The courts have ruled against him at every stage.


Yeah, like the supreme court that called the Obamacare penalty a tax.

Yeah, the “courts”.


22 posted on 04/16/2014 10:10:50 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: SeekAndFind

Blah, blah, blah.


23 posted on 04/16/2014 10:11:31 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: knarf

The law is a religion practiced by priests (lawyers) and bishops (judges) according to the papacy (SC)

****************

At its best, law is a weapons system. Anyone who is a practitioner in it realizes that all of our current man made laws are written on wax. The law says what it means and means what it says until it doesn’t. It is a game.

At its worst, it is a racket.


24 posted on 04/16/2014 10:11:42 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: SeekAndFind

How is it reasonable for BLM to restrict herd size so much that Bundy would lose 90% of his herd? From 500 to 150, plus his water rights.

BLM and ‘Biodiversity’ (Soros) wants to put the guy out of business.


25 posted on 04/16/2014 10:11:49 AM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Bump for later evisceration of a clueless fool


26 posted on 04/16/2014 10:13:53 AM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: SeekAndFind

The law is on Bundy’s side - strictly speaking. Nevada grazing law says that Bundy, by historic use, has a grazing easement on the land, regardless of who owns the dirt. This easement includes the forage and the water, and is similar to mineral rights in that they can be held separately from the real estate.

Bundy’s rights were established before the feds took possession of the land - the transfer of the land from the state to the feds did not end his grazing easement. He needs to start making his case based on Nevada range law and grazing easements. His rights have nothing to do with whether or not the feds own 80% of the land - his grazing easement supersedes the federal ownership. They do not have the authority to charge him for rights or easements he already owns - which is why they claim payment for “management”. However, they are supposed to manage it to maximize grazing - and they haven’t been doing that - which is why Bundy stopped paying them. They have no right to “manage” the grazing without his consent - and if they aren’t doing the job he was paying them for, i.e. managing HIS forage for maximum grazing capacity, he has every right to stop paying them.

He has the law on his side, if he and his attorneys would argue the proper laws.


27 posted on 04/16/2014 10:13:57 AM PDT by GilesB
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To: Psalm 144

It is very frustrating. It just goes to show how dumbed-down some Americans have become regarding the Constitution. The Constitution has been abused and trampled on for at least 100 years and replaced with statism, especially from the radical progressives of the last half century. Statism is much more important for these people and to hell with individual liberties and freedoms.

CGato


28 posted on 04/16/2014 10:14:02 AM PDT by Conservative Gato
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To: DoodleDawg
Nobody likes to see the massive power of a federal agency targeting an individual citizen. But there aren’t any good guys in this, just one who is less bad than the other. Hell yes the government overreacted. But Bundy also broke the law. The courts have ruled against him at every stage. And at the end of the day the government will continue to pursue it and he’s going to lose his land and his business through less visually attention grapping means.

Please see post #21 of this thread. Also, try to listen to Mark Levin's opening segment from yesterday.

The Feds are wrong. Bundy is in the right. Levin masterly explains the devious acts of the left that led directly to Bundy's action.

Mark speaks of context. Bundy is standing up to a very abusive government.

29 posted on 04/16/2014 10:14:31 AM PDT by sand88 (We can never legislate our way back to Liberty)
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To: DoodleDawg

Please keep in mind that the Obama government has padded the courts with judges that rule in their favor.


30 posted on 04/16/2014 10:14:59 AM PDT by dforest
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To: GilesB

RE: Nevada grazing law says that Bundy, by historic use, has a grazing easement on the land, regardless of who owns the dirt.

OK, that’s Nevada law, what does Federal Law say? And which law trumps which in this country according to the constitution?


31 posted on 04/16/2014 10:15:17 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: DannyTN
"As government expands and civil society retreats, bad laws pile atop bad laws, and the cause for dissent is magnified and deepened. Cliven Bundy has been dealt a raw hand by a system that is deaf to his grievances and ham-fisted in its response. But this is a republic, dammit — and those who hope to keep it cannot pick and choose the provisions with which they are willing to deign to comply."

see Post #21 and please listen to Mark Levin's first segment from yesterday.

If you do, you will clearly see that your comment will apply to those in power, not to Bundy.

The Feds are abusing their power. Bundy is standing up to naked tyranny.

Levin masterfully gives context and background of the actions of the Feds that led up to Bundy's actions.

Levin's 1st segment is very eye opening.

32 posted on 04/16/2014 10:17:18 AM PDT by sand88 (We can never legislate our way back to Liberty)
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To: DoodleDawg

What “law” did Bundy break?

Should Christians submit to unjust laws, by tangential logic? How about ex post facto laws, by another tangent?


33 posted on 04/16/2014 10:17:55 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Conservative Gato

They fail not just as American but as higher primates. Laws are to serve the needs of people. People are not to serve the ‘needs’ of law.

Alter or abolish the corrupt law, and the corrupt law giver.


34 posted on 04/16/2014 10:17:56 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: SeekAndFind
At issue, the grazing fees which Bundy claim he should be paying the State of Arizona & BLM running off what they call his "Trespass Cattle" to fulfill an EPA mandate for offset land for the development of the Solar First solar energy project that has already broken ground.

Why can't Bundy graze his cattle on the proposed offset like he has for years?

...the EPA & BLM were not worried about the damn turtle before the Solar First project.

35 posted on 04/16/2014 10:17:57 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: SeekAndFind

Cooke is an apparatchik.


36 posted on 04/16/2014 10:18:21 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: dforest
Please keep in mind that the Obama government has padded the courts with judges that rule in their favor.

If frustrates me to no end to see Conservatives say the courts have ruled.

It allows them to not investigate the issue any further.

People need to see that many in black robes are rabid statist tyrants.

37 posted on 04/16/2014 10:19:57 AM PDT by sand88 (We can never legislate our way back to Liberty)
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To: sand88
Mark speaks of context. Bundy is standing up to a very abusive government.

An abusive government which at the end of the day still has the law on its side.

38 posted on 04/16/2014 10:23:47 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: dforest
Please keep in mind that the Obama government has padded the courts with judges that rule in their favor.

Perhaps. But this has been going on for years and he's lost every single time it went to court.

39 posted on 04/16/2014 10:25:23 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: SeekAndFind

Nevada law trumps. It is within their borders, their laws regarding real estate and grazing rights and water rights etc. are THE law. The feds have no jurisdiction. To verify this, ask your self why the BLM charges grazers “management fees” instead of rent.


40 posted on 04/16/2014 10:26:26 AM PDT by GilesB
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