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Ancient Vishnu idol found in Russian town
PTI ^ | 4 Jan, 2007 1109hrs IST | PTI

Posted on 01/04/2007 1:29:08 AM PST by CarrotAndStick

MOSCOW: An ancient Vishnu idol has been found during excavation in an old village in Russia's Volga region, raising questions about the prevalent view on the origin of ancient Russia.

The idol found in Staraya (old) Maina village dates back to VII-X century AD. Staraya Maina village in Ulyanovsk region was a highly populated city 1700 years ago, much older than Kiev, so far believed to be the mother of all Russian cities.

"We may consider it incredible, but we have ground to assert that Middle-Volga region was the original land of Ancient Rus. This is a hypothesis, but a hypothesis, which requires thorough research," Reader of Ulyanovsk State University's archaeology department Dr Alexander Kozhevin told state-run television Vesti .

Dr Kozhevin, who has been conducting excavation in Staraya Maina for last seven years, said that every single square metre of the surroundings of the ancient town situated on the banks of Samara, a tributary of Volga, is studded with antiques.

Prior to unearthing of the Vishnu idol, Dr Kozhevin has already found ancient coins, pendants, rings and fragments of weapons.

He believes that today's Staraya Maina, a town of eight thousand, was ten times more populated in the ancient times. It is from here that people started moving to the Don and Dneiper rivers around the time ancient Russy built the city of Kiev, now the capital of Ukraine.

An international conference is being organised later this year to study the legacy of the ancient village, which can radically change the history of ancient Russia.


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: aryaninvasion; aryans; bolgar; bulgaria; bulgharia; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; india; indusvalley; indusvalleyscript; khazars; russia; silkroad; vishnu; volga

1 posted on 01/04/2007 1:29:12 AM PST by CarrotAndStick
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To: blam; SunkenCiv

Pinging.


2 posted on 01/04/2007 1:30:10 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

It is already a well documented fact that the Aryans who settled India and developed the Hindu civilization there originally arrived from Central Asia. Perhaps this shows that these same people may have migrated from Central Asia toward the north, bringing already formed Hindu ideas with them. Perhaps this also shows that Hinduism is older than originally speculated and did not have its oldest roots in the Indus Valley, as also widely believed. Very interesting information indeed...


3 posted on 01/04/2007 1:47:08 AM PST by Eric_WA
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To: Eric_WA

Hinduism is older than 8th to 10th century AD. By this time, the Muslims were almost at our door-step in Afghanistan. I'm not sure whether the above evidence proves a hypothesis of a Central Asian origin although I do believe in the Aryan migration theory. One statue doesn't prove much, it could be an aberration.


4 posted on 01/04/2007 2:23:50 AM PST by MimirsWell (Musharraf - In the line of (back)fire.)
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To: MimirsWell

Oh yes, Hinduism dates back to beyond 3000 B.C. I was just wondering whether the teachings were passed down through several generations until the statues were built. Of course, this is a far-fetched idea and it could be an aberration, as you mention.


5 posted on 01/04/2007 2:42:31 AM PST by Eric_WA
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To: CarrotAndStick

Any chance some Mongols brought the statue there?


6 posted on 01/04/2007 4:34:48 AM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: CarrotAndStick
International trades have been around for long, together with cultural exchange, etc. Finding an artifact in a location doesn't mean the ancient people living in that area adhered to the culture the artifact belonged to.
7 posted on 01/04/2007 4:34:53 AM PST by paudio (WoT is more important than War on Gay Marriage!)
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To: SunkenCiv; little jeremiah; ARridgerunner

Ping!


8 posted on 01/04/2007 5:34:24 AM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Gengis Khan

Was your predecessor out raiding and looting again...?


9 posted on 01/04/2007 5:42:46 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Dumb_Ox
That is something to consider. Though with Huns replacing Mongols. The Mongol Empire was from around 1206 to 1405 (according to Wikipedia). However, the Huns don't exactly fit into the article either, hitting their stride from around AD 300 to 500 (does the AD go before or after the number?), again, according to Wikipedia. Also, they didn't reach India.
10 posted on 01/04/2007 5:53:52 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, and Townhall.com are not valid news sources.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

How accurate--in your opinion--is PTI, anyway?


11 posted on 01/04/2007 5:57:12 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, and Townhall.com are not valid news sources.)
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To: Dumb_Ox
Pretty pictures:


12 posted on 01/04/2007 6:03:00 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, and Townhall.com are not valid news sources.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

PTI is the Press Trust of India. They are pretty reliable.

http://www.ptinews.com/


And they are not the only ones reporting this find:

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-08,GGLJ:en&q=vishnu+russia


13 posted on 01/04/2007 6:07:19 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Appreciated.


14 posted on 01/04/2007 6:08:55 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( WND, NewsMax, and Townhall.com are not valid news sources.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

http://www.ptinews.com/AboutPti%5COrganisation.htm


15 posted on 01/04/2007 6:09:14 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
The Huns had reached India, by the way:

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ANCINDIA/GUPTA.HTM The Guptas tended to allow kings to remain as vassal kings; unlike the Mauryas, they did not consolidate every kingdom into a single administrative unit. This would be the model for later Mughal rule and British rule built off of the Mughal paradigm.

The Guptas fell prey, however, to a wave of migrations by the Huns, a people who originally lived north of China. The Hun migrations would push all the way to the doors of Rome. Beginning in the 400's, the Huns began to put pressure on the Guptas. In 480 they conquered the Guptas and took over northern India. Western India was overrun by 500, and the last of the Gupta kings, presiding over a vastly dimished kingdom, perished in 550. A strange thing happened to the Huns in India as well as in Europe. Over the decades they gradually assimilated into the indigenous population and their state weakened.

16 posted on 01/04/2007 6:13:26 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Gengis Khan

Thank you.


17 posted on 01/04/2007 6:40:11 AM PST by ARridgerunner
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To: Allan


18 posted on 01/04/2007 6:40:57 AM PST by ARridgerunner
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To: CarrotAndStick; Jedi Master Pikachu

The ones to have invaded Northern India were called "Hunas" in Sanskrit, not entirely clear if they were the same as the Central Asian Huns. BTW PTI is a very reliable source.


19 posted on 01/04/2007 6:50:34 AM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: CarrotAndStick; Jedi Master Pikachu

BTW this is a very interesting article from Mosnews.com:


Ancient Vishnu Idol Can Change View on Russian History

Created: 04.01.2007 14:18 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 14:18 MSK, 3 hours 26 minutes ago

MosNews

An ancient Vishnu idol has been found during excavation in an old village in Russia’s Volga region, raising questions about the prevalent view on the origin of ancient Russia, the Reuters news agency reports.

The idol found in Staraya (old) Maina village dates back to VII-X century AD. Staraya Maina village in Ulyanovsk region was a highly populated city 1700 years ago, much older than Kiev, so far believed to be the mother of all Russian cities.

“We may consider it incredible, but we have ground to assert that Middle-Volga region was the original land of Ancient Rus. This is a hypothesis, but a hypothesis, which requires thorough research,” Reader of Ulyanovsk State University’s archaeology department Dr Alexander Kozhevin told state-run television Vesti .

Dr Kozhevin, who has been conducting excavation in Staraya Maina for last seven years, said that every single square metre of the surroundings of the ancient town situated on the banks of Samara, a tributary of Volga, is studded with antiques.

Prior to unearthing of the Vishnu idol, Dr Kozhevin has already found ancient coins, pendants, rings and fragments of weapons.

He believes that today’s Staraya Maina, a town of eight thousand, was ten times more populated in the ancient times. It is from here that people started moving to the Don and Dneiper rivers around the time ancient Russy built the city of Kiev, now the capital of Ukraine.

An international conference is being organised later this year to study the legacy of the ancient village, which can radically change the history of ancient Russia.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2007/01/04/harevishnu.shtml


20 posted on 01/04/2007 6:53:37 AM PST by Gengis Khan
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To: Gengis Khan; Jedi Master Pikachu

Oops, I realise now! The "Huns" who invaded India were of Indo-Greek extraction, and not Chinese.


21 posted on 01/04/2007 7:07:36 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
Siberian Graveyard's Secret

"The discovery adds to the evidence that Siberia was not an isolated wasteland but a crossroads of international trade and cultural diversity, Natalia Fedorova of the Ural branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences said in an interview in her office in this central Russian city. Among the artifacts discovered at the site were bronze bowls from Persia, dated by style from the 10th or 11th century.

22 posted on 01/04/2007 7:28:57 AM PST by blam
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To: CarrotAndStick

related:

Buddha statue from 6th c found in Viking hoard in Helgo, Sweden
Biblical Archaeology Review | March/April 2005 | "Worldwide" editor
Posted on 04/27/2005 2:26:07 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1391864/posts


23 posted on 01/04/2007 10:52:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ahmedumbass and the mullahcracy is doomed. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: CarrotAndStick; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks CarrotAndStick.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

24 posted on 01/04/2007 10:52:57 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ahmedumbass and the mullahcracy is doomed. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: little jeremiah

MEGA Ping


25 posted on 01/04/2007 11:08:47 AM PST by indcons (Fellow FReepers - Best Wishes for 2007.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I am always surprised at how surprised people are by how far the trade networks went...I think they see everybody as staying in their own neck of the woods and never moving past it...but even with conquest, and even in spite of it, trade went on....the secret story of history...Wealth, and the desire for cool things talk.


26 posted on 01/04/2007 11:13:52 AM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

The Huns certainly reached India. Ever heard of Mrihakula, the Hun emperor who invaded India incl. present-day Afghanistan and Pakistan? He subsequently converted to Shaivaism and settled deown in present-day Jammu and Kashmir.

Indian history is replete with references to the Hunas, the Sanskrit word for Huns.


27 posted on 01/04/2007 11:14:07 AM PST by indcons (Fellow FReepers - Best Wishes for 2007.)
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To: Gengis Khan

I saw that you had also replied to that incorrect assumption about the Huns. You're right, Gengis. The Hunas in Sanskrit literature are the same as the Huns.


28 posted on 01/04/2007 11:15:56 AM PST by indcons (Fellow FReepers - Best Wishes for 2007.)
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To: paudio

Agree, traders who traveled long distances brought their idols and artifacts with them. I.e., in Palmyra, a caravan town in Syria, temples to ancient gods from farflung places were built so caravaneers could worship when they arrived at this transshipment and rest stop. Wealthy Palmyrenes had villas in Rome and at least one temple dedicated to Palmyrene Baal has been unearthed in Roman ruins.

I don't know what it would take to prove that Hindu culture originated in or dominated this Russian area. Its always fun to see archeologists changing history with every find.


29 posted on 01/04/2007 11:19:52 AM PST by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
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To: Gengis Khan; Eric_WA

Thanks for the ping! Fascinating. Later I will comment more information about the ancient spread of the Vedic culture. And the so-called "Aryan invasion" theory is now getting the discredit it so richly deserves.

It was an invention of 18th and 19th century British indologists who wanted to make the great antiquity of the Vedas and Vedic culture appear of recent origin and having developed elsewhere. It's a myth created to demean the history of India and Indian culture, civilization, and religion.

In the Bhagavad Gita Shree Krishna asks Arjuna why he is acting like a non-aryan when he refuses to fight the righteous fight. He meant non-aryan in the sense of values, which is what the word "aryan" means. It never meant any particular race or tribe; it meant (and still means) a cultured person who knows the spiritual values and purpose of life and acts thusly.


30 posted on 01/04/2007 11:24:40 AM PST by little jeremiah (Only those who thirst for truth can know truth.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

Exactly. See that linked topic for info on Roman-era trade with India.


31 posted on 01/04/2007 11:28:47 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Ahmedumbass and the mullahcracy is doomed. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: indcons

I will be posting more information later when I have a little time. Extremely interesting.


32 posted on 01/04/2007 11:47:23 AM PST by little jeremiah (Only those who thirst for truth can know truth.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

Scythians of Ukraine were a Persian tribe from the Brahmin Afghanistan region. The Brahmin river-goddess Danu has been linked to "Dnieper Dneister Don" rivers of Scythians, and "Danube" of Celts, and Danaan of Ireland._John Koch. Advanced Welsh Studies. Uni.Wales.
(quote)"Analysis of ancient Sanskrit texts[11] and inscriptions[12] place the Kambojas, Gandharas, Yavanas (Greeks), Madras, and the Sakas in the Uttarapatha - the northern division of Jambudvipa (the innermost concentric island continent in Hindu scripture). Geographically, this area sat along, and was named for, the main trade route from the mouth the Ganges to Balkh, now a small town in Northern Afghanistan. Some writers hold that Uttarapatha included the whole of Northern India and comprised very area of Central Asia, as far as the Urals and the Caspian Sea to the Yenisei and from Turkistan and Tien Shan ranges to as far as the Arctic"_ (Dr S. M. Ali).(end quote).
Scythians spoke Saka language. IE Tocharians of NW China had
Hallstatt-pattern tartan-cloth, and Toch. "bramn.kte" meant
"Brahma god". Brahmin Shiva-Vishnu culture evidently reached the Urals with Sarmatian-Persians. That faith also apparently diffused to Celtic Ireland.
chimera2


33 posted on 01/06/2007 2:48:38 PM PST by chimera2
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To: CarrotAndStick; SunkenCiv; Eric_WA; MimirsWell; Dumb_Ox; Jedi Master Pikachu; chimera2
Amazing how the entire article fails to mention who lived there.

Staraya Maina was within what was called Volga Bulgaria or Great Bulgarian Khanate (as opposed to the Danube Bulgaria.)
The Bulgars, the ancestors of the modern Chuvash Tatars, had a large empire with 3 cities in the area: Bolgar (their capital), Bilyar, and Balymer.
The Bulghar Khanate was part of the Silk Road. They had extensive trade relationships with the Byzantines, Khazars, Muslims, and Varangians.
Whether Indian merchants or travelers came up the Volga by way or Muslim Persia, Kurdistan, Byzantium, or Khazaran-Atil this suggests a large trade route. The likely source was the Radanites, a network of Jewish merchants who had trade routes from Andalusia (Spain) to Sind (India) and Xin (China). Were I to further guess, I would assume that the traders came through Khazaria, which had a large Jewish population (some portion of its nobility, including some of my ancestors, converted sometime between 740 and 850CE). Trade would have gone through the Khazar capital of Khazaran-Atil, which was at the Volga estuary to the Caspian Sea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Bulgaria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

The Radhanite Trade Routes.

34 posted on 01/15/2007 5:48:41 PM PST by rmlew (Having slit their throats may the conservatives who voted for Casey choke slowly on their blood.)
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To: Fred Nerks

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35 posted on 09/07/2008 12:34:33 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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(file from David Derrick files)

Archaeological finds reveal prehistoric civilization along Silk Road

36 posted on 04/05/2014 9:07:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Obama is now making Jimmy Carter look like Attila the Hun. /focus/news/3138768/posts)
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