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Found: the Sister Cleopatra Killed
The Times (London) ^ | March 15, 2009 | Daniel Foggo

Posted on 03/15/2009 11:07:14 PM PDT by nickcarraway

ARCHEOLOGISTS and forensic experts believe they have identified the skeleton of Cleopatra’s younger sister, murdered more than 2,000 years ago on the orders of the Egyptian queen.

The remains of Princess Arsinöe, put to death in 41BC on the orders of Cleopatra and her Roman lover Mark Antony to eliminate her as a rival, are the first relics of the Ptolemaic dynasty to be identified.

The breakthrough, by an Austrian team, has provided pointers to Cleopatra’s true ethnicity. Scholars have long debated whether she was Greek or Macedonian like her ancestor the original Ptolemy, a Macedonian general who was made ruler of Egypt by Alexander the Great, or whether she was north African.

Evidence obtained by studying the dimensions of Arsinöe’s skull shows she had some of the characteristics of white Europeans, ancient Egyptians and black Africans, indicating that Cleopatra was probably of mixed race, too. They were daughters of Ptolemy XII by different wives.

Related Links Temple site ‘hides tomb of Cleopatra’ Preserver of the lost artefacts Call for return of Egyptian treasures The results vindicate the theories of Hilke Thür of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, who has long claimed that the skeleton was Arsinöe. She described the discovery of Arsinöe’s ethnicity as “a real sensation which leads to a new insight on Cleopatra’s family”.

Fellow experts are now convinced. GüntherHölbl, an authority on the Ptolemies, said the identification of the skeleton was “a great discovery”.

The forensic evidence was obtained by a team working under the auspices of the Austrian Archeological Institute, which is set to detail its findings at an anthropological convention in the UnitedStates later this month.

The story of the discovery will also be the subject of a tele-vision documentary, Cleopatra: Portrait of a Killer, to be shown on BBC1 at 9pm next Monday.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; ancientegypt; archaeology; arsinoe; cleopatra; cleopatravii; egypt; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; romanempire
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1 posted on 03/15/2009 11:07:15 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 03/15/2009 11:08:10 PM PDT by nickcarraway (Are the Good Times Really Over?)
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To: nickcarraway
"Scholars have long debated whether she was Greek or Macedonian like her ancestor the original Ptolemy, a Macedonian general who was made ruler of Egypt by Alexander the Great, or whether she was north African.

What? I thought it was well-accepted that she Macedonian. There's at least one coin that survives with her profile. It's clearly a European honker.

3 posted on 03/15/2009 11:12:28 PM PDT by Big_Monkey
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To: nickcarraway

This is very interesting. Thanks for the post.


4 posted on 03/15/2009 11:18:11 PM PDT by txnativegop (God Bless America! (NRA-Endowment))
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To: nickcarraway

Ptolemy wasn’t made ruler of Egypt by Alexander. When Alexander died, Ptolemy, being smart, stole the body and along with a portion of the army, fled to Egypt where he set up shop as head duomo.


5 posted on 03/15/2009 11:18:16 PM PDT by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: nickcarraway

Bleh, looks like some Long Island housewife to me.


6 posted on 03/15/2009 11:23:34 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: Big_Monkey
There's at least one coin that survives with her profile. It's clearly a European honker.

Cleopatra portrait coins are not all that uncommon.

All I can say is that she must have been GREAT in bed.

This coin had busts of both Antony and Cleopatra.

7 posted on 03/15/2009 11:40:55 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
"All I can say is that she must have been GREAT in bed.

Well, with a nose like that, you know she didn't have to breath through her mouth, if you know what I mean.

Of course, however great her charms (and yes, they must've been immense), it still wasn't enough to win over Augustus. We all know how that turned out.

8 posted on 03/15/2009 11:45:43 PM PDT by Big_Monkey
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To: Polybius; windcliff
All I can say is that she must have been GREAT in bed.

I heard she had a nice asp.

9 posted on 03/15/2009 11:54:17 PM PDT by I Drive Too Fast
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To: nickcarraway

10 posted on 03/15/2009 11:54:33 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: I Drive Too Fast
"I heard she had a nice asp."

Bingo - We have a winner....
Post of the Week!

Laughed my asp off.

11 posted on 03/16/2009 12:06:22 AM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: Polybius

She looks like Helen (of Detroit) Thomas.


12 posted on 03/16/2009 12:23:59 AM PDT by gigster
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To: Polybius

If that coin is really a portrait of Marc Antony, he wasn’t much to look at either.


13 posted on 03/16/2009 12:25:16 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one Bae Yong Joon drama at a time!)
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To: Tamar1973

Since the statute of limitations for murder never expires will they try her mummy and possibly put it in jail for a while?


14 posted on 03/16/2009 12:40:18 AM PDT by askrenr (Slightly to the right of Attila the Hun.)
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To: Polybius

That top coin seems to have confirmed the ancestry of Helen Thomas.


15 posted on 03/16/2009 12:46:35 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: nickcarraway

And there’s no statute of limitations on murder!


16 posted on 03/16/2009 1:34:06 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: mdmathis6

Ancestry? The portrait on the coin IS Helen Thomas.


17 posted on 03/16/2009 2:16:21 AM PDT by SolidWood (Palin: "In Alaska we eat therefore we hunt.")
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To: nickcarraway
They were daughters of Ptolemy XII by different wives.

Meaning Arsinöe's presumed ethnicity may well have no bearing whatsoever on Cleopatra's.

18 posted on 03/16/2009 3:51:34 AM PDT by dorothy (We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.” —C.S. Lewis)
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To: Big_Monkey

I think the issue is less what her father was and more what her mother was, but that is really irrevelant by the find of her sister because her sister is by another mother.

So they still really haven’t figured much out except that Ptolemy was Macedonian which I don’t think was in dispute.

I still don’t know how much they have found out about Cleopatra with this find.


19 posted on 03/16/2009 3:56:59 AM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson VIVA LA REVOLUTION!)
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To: Polybius

That middle one looks like Sylvester Stallone. Top one looks just like a plain ole b.... errr witch. LOL


20 posted on 03/16/2009 5:12:26 AM PDT by gopheraj
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