Skip to comments.Britons In USA In 6th Century - Shock Claim (Prince Madoc)
Posted on 11/26/2003 3:31:04 PM PST by blamEdited on 11/20/2004 12:49:24 PM PST by Jim Robinson. [history]
Britons in USA in 6th Century - Shock Claim
Historians and researchers announced today that Radio Carbon dating evidence, and the discovery of ancient British style artefacts and inscriptions, provided "the strongest indications yet" that British explorers, under the Prince Madoc ap Meurig, arrived in the country during the 6th Century and set up colonies in the American Midwest.
BRITONS IN USA IN 6TH CENTURY - SHOCK CLAIM
"It's proof of Prince Madoc in America circa 560," say leading British and US historians.
A team of leading independent historians and researchers announced today that Radio Carbon dating evidence, and the discovery of ancient British style artefacts and inscriptions in the American Midwest, provided, "the strongest indications yet" that British explorers, under the Prince Madoc ap Meurig, arrived in the country during the 6th Century and set up colonies there.
Research team members have known the location of burial sites of Madoc's close relatives in Wales for some time, it emerged today; they have decided to break their self-imposed silence in order that their research be fully known and understood. DNA evidence could provide vital new leads, they say.
"We have a mass of remarkable evidence," said British historian Alan Wilson, who has been working with Jim Michael of the Ancient Kentucke Historical Association since 1989. "As experts in ancient British history, we were approached by Jim and visited locations in the Mid West with him," he added.
BAT CREEK MOUND
Many of the grave mounds found in the American mid West, including those at Bat Creek, Tennessee, are ancient British in origin and design, Wilson said. Jim Michael added, "the stone tablet found at Bat Creek in 1889 included an inscription written in Coelbren, an ancient British alphabet known and recorded by historians and bards down the ages." Wilson said that his research had brought him into contact with very similar alphabet inscriptions in Britain, Europe and the Middle East. "The components of the alphabet derive from the earliest days of the Khumric (Welsh) people," he added, "and were used along their migration routes to Wales in antiquity."
A MADOC INSCRIPTION
Wilson's research partner, Baram A. Blackett, said, "once we discovered the cipher for the alphabet in recorded in texts dating to the 1500s we knew we were in business. We have translated many of these inscriptions and they all make perfect sense." Jim Michael commented that the final translation for the Bat Creek tablet was an exciting business, "especially when we knew it read, 'Madoc the ruler he is'."
THE MADOC 'LEGEND'
Some historians have written off the evidence for Prince Madoc, the Welsh Prince who sailed to America circa 562 (AD). "They often give a false date of 1170 and this legend has replaced the facts," added Wilson. "At the moment, there is a small group of wreckers trying to steal our research and to promote this misdating. Luckily, we've done all the groundwork and have a substantial body of evidence in our favour."
ACADEMICS SLOW TO RESPOND
"In Britain and America the academics have been slow to respond," said Jim Michael. "There is a theory that there was no European settlement here before Columbus, despite the evidence, but this is for political and theoretical reasons." In the UK, public bodies had, "failed to engage with this vital research effort," added Alan Wilson. "I think they're afraid that an independent group such as ours has made such progress. They prefer to ignore and neglect ancient British history rather than to deal with it. The Welsh people have suffered, and the opportunity to boost the economy, to bring thousands of jobs to Glamorgan and Gwent, where Madoc and his brother Arthur II ruled, has not been exploited."
Public bodies in the US and UK must now start to actively pursue this new evidence. DNA profiling could help identify the human remains found at Bat Creek. "It could well be Madoc himself," said Blackett. "After all, the inscription was found right next to the bones, which are currently housed at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington DC." Wilson, Blackett and their research team know the location of Madoc's close relatives and have made significant archaeological finds at sites nearby. "So we can use Welsh DNA evidence from the graves here, and compare it with the bone fragments in the Smithsonian," he said. "This would be of massive historical value." It is estimated that up to 20,000 jobs and hundreds of millions in tourism could be an immediate benefit in South Wales, claimed the men.
"In the American Mid West the results could be very similar," added Jim Michael.
- Wilson, Blackett, and Jim Michael made the identification of the Bat Creek main tumulus as the likely tomb of Prince Madoc, in January 1990. Michael has been in contact with the Smithsonian with a view to its allowing the bone fragments to be DNA tested.
- There are numerous ancient British Coelbren inscriptions in the American Mid West.
- Skulls found in some US grave mounds are of European-Caucasian origin; they do not include an Inca bone.
- There was only one Prince Madoc. He was the brother of King Arthur ll and lived during the 6th Century. This is not in doubt. Ancient British manuscripts and genealogies tell us this.
Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett
They have been investigating the true history of King Arthur and the Khumric-Welsh dynasty for a total of nearly 70 years. Wilson's interest began in 1956 and Blackett joined him in 1976, when the Arthurian Research Foundation of Great Britain was started.
They have written the best-selling 'The Holy Kingdom' (Bantam, 1999) with Adrian Gilbert and self-published underground classics including 'Arthur, King of Glamorgan and Gwent', 'Artorius Rex Discovered', 'Arthur and the Charters of the Kings' and 'Arthur, The War King' (a historical novel).
The men have lectured extensively in the UK, including Manchester and Jesus Colleges at Oxford University, and Alan Wilson gave the prestigious Bemis Lecture in Boston in 1993. Wilson and Blackett were also commissioned to produce a detailed genealogy of the Bush family by former President George Bush (senior).
Weblink: http://www.kingarthur-online.co.uk E-mail: TMMatthews99@aol.com or firstname.lastname@example.org
James B Michael Ancient Kentucke Historical Assocation, 4109 Suwanee Drive, La Grange, Kentucky 40031.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.
Maybe that is one reason for looking else where. Also, King Arthur is widly believed to have died at this same 540AD date.
Can you reconcile this statement with the one below I found in the link you provided to Madoc In America?
"We now know who led the 700-ship expedition to America; the records say it was Arthur II ap Meurig, along with his brother Madoc Morfran and brother-in-law Ammwn Ddu."
The tree rings indicate that the whole earth went into a dark age at 540AD...at least one of the comet fragments that caused it fell nearby in the Celtic Sea...I would get out of Dodge too!
Sure, King Arthue I and King Arthur II.
Uh, KA1 was 4th century; KA2 was 6th century. From the Madoc piece:
We know that "King Arthur" was, in fact, two people, which clears up the confusion of Polydore Vergil, historian at the Court of Henry VIII, relating to how "King Arthur" could defeat the Romans and also the Angles, the Saxons and others. "Arthur" would have been 250 years old. We know now, thanks to our King Arthur Research Project, that Arthur I was son of Magnus Maximus and led the British armies into Gaul in 383, defeated the Romans at Sassy-Soissons and chased the Roman Emperor Gratian to Lyons, where he executed him.
Arthur II, son of King Meurig, and a sixth generation direct male descendant of Arthur I, is the Sixth Century Arthur of legend.
For all the world it appears KA2 not only survived the meteor/comet impact, but traveled to the new world with Madoc. Assuming of course there's sufficient evidence for any of this...
Thanks. It's late and I didn't want to look all that up, lol.
I'm not sure that someone with a name like that would appreciate being called British.
Kennewick Man, Red Headed Paleo-American remains found in Nevada and Viking Runes and maps. Sounds like white guys were moving around earlier that I learned in school.
Yup, did you see these guys in Florida?
So the legend that Authur would return to save England was proven true when America saved England in WWII.
Hmmmm, I'm not familiar with the legend, but it does lend credence to another old expression, "What goes around, comes around", eh?
From 2003, never got the ping message.
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·
Note: this topic is from 11/26/2003. Thanks blam.And because of your comment:
Professor Mike Baillie believes a comet fragment crashed into the Celtic Sea around the 540AD time frame and started the Dark Ages. Maybe that is one reason for looking else where. Also, King Arthur is widly believed to have died at this same 540AD date.What choice do I have than to ping the C list?
The first i’d heard of this theory was several years ago, when the, probably apocryphal, story of a Welsh pastor being captured by injuns in the 1700s. He recited a prayer in Welsh, and his captures understood him!
I don’t see how you can call him anything OTHER than british.
The land was called Britannia by the Romans. That’s how it stayed until the formation of England in the 700s. If prince madoc lived in 500s, then he was truly a Briton
"NYAAH HA HA HA! I'M TAKING YOUR MIND!"
Oh, wait, Madoc....sorry...
Some threads never die.
Cassiodorus reported strange atmospheric phenomena from 534-6, which involved weak sun, much summer cold, crop failures, strange color of the sky, etc. There are also Chinese records of that period reporting famine, etc. Perhaps Arthur II was killed in 540 by the plague that swept Europe about that time caused by the previous years of famine and subsequent population weakness. Then about 20 years later 562 the next generation, probably with the same or similar names sailed for the new world. Gloria Farley’s book has many interesting examples of Celtic writing and religious figures up various river systems.
It just occurred to me, doesn’t ap mean son of or like junior? Or am I remembering this wrong? If true, then it strengthen’s my previous comment.
Any history is always told in the senses of the time in which the historian writes it. It tells as much about the time in which it was written as the time written about, if the reader is deep enough to read for it.
And too, the reader of any history so written reads and interprets through his lenses and understandings which are of the the reader’s own time.
Donovan - Atlantis
They were under heavy pressure from the English too at the time.
Perhaps the east coast native americans were holding out for two bags of beads and Madoc was just simply not willing to pay that much...
British as in Ancient British. Celtic, as opposed to Anglo-Saxon “English”.
It’s not only part of the King Arthur legend, it’s a very common component of many “hero” legends...the great hero dies protecting his people, but his love and dedication are so great that he will come alive/wake up if they are ever threatened again. It’s a common meme.
Didn’t Madeleine L’Engle already tell us about this?
Born the same year as my mother.
Bump for later
That could explain St. Brendon as well
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.