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Interview [with Iravatham Mahadevan,] the Madras Indus scholar
Himal ^ | April 2007 | interviewed by Sundar Ganesan

Posted on 03/31/2007 7:44:03 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

[Q:] There are periodic reports of Indus script being deciphered. Are there standard methods to test the validity of claimed decipherments?

[A:] The best summary and evaluation of the work done so far is Gregory Possehl’s book, The Indus Age: Its writing. I myself have reviewed five claims to decipherment – two based on Sanskrit, two on Tamil and one claiming that the script is merely a collection of numbers. My conclusion is negative – that none of the decipherments has been successful... There is very little interest in the Indus script in the West – there are very few people working on the Indus script around the world. The one exception is India, but research in India has gotten inextricably mixed up with politics: the Hindu nationalistic scholars claim the language is Sanskrit, while the Tamil nationalistic scholars claim it to be a form of Dravidian. Both claims have become suspect because of their political background. Any claim from an Indian scholar becomes suspect because one immediately asks what is the mother tongue or political affiliation of the scholar. A scholar from another country is happily free of this problem. I envy that freedom, but I too have an advantage: I am a son of the soil. The traditions of India, its mythology, its religions, its culture, its art, are in my blood, and therefore I may have insights which people who are not the inheritors of this culture may not have. This is a subjective reaction, but such resources as we have must be put to best use.

(Excerpt) Read more at himalmag.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; harappan; indusvalley

Iravatham Mahadevan interview

1 posted on 03/31/2007 7:44:05 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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The Indus Script: Texts, concordance and tables
Google

2 posted on 03/31/2007 7:44:17 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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reprise:
"Discovery of a century" in Tamil Nadu
by T.S. Subramanian
Monday, May 01, 2006
According to Mr. Mahadevan, the first sign on the celt depicted a skeletal body with ribs. The figure is seated on his haunches, body bent and contracted, with lower limbs folded and knees drawn up. The second sign showed a jar. Hundreds of this pair have been found on seals and sealings at Harappa. Mr Mahadevan read the first sign as "muruku" and the second sign as "an." In other words, it is "Murukan." The earliest references in Old Tamil poetry portrayed him as a "wrathful killer," indicating his prowess as a war god and hunter. The third sign looked like a trident and the fourth like a crescent with a loop in the middle.

3 posted on 03/31/2007 7:45:04 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Parpula's two volumes of photographs covering the collections of India and Pakistan, which appeared in 1987 and 1991... and his 1994 sign list, containing 386 signs (as against Mahadevan's 419 signs), are generally recognized as fine achievements, not least by Mahadevan... This is a significant figure. It is too high for a syllabary like Linear B... and too low for a highly logographic script like Chinese. the nearest comparison... are probably the Hittite hieroglyphs with about 500 signs and Sumerian cuneiform with perhaps 600+ signs... Most scholars therefore agree that the Indus script is likely to be a logosyllabic script like its west Asian contemporaries. [pp 281-284]

These Dravidian speakers are presumably remnants of a once-widespread Dravidian culture submerged by encroaching Indo-Aryans in the 2nd millennium BC... The Indo-Aryan hymns, the Vedas... recount tales of conquest of the forts of the dark-skinned Dasa or Dasyu... the Vedas repeatedly mention the horse in their descriptions of warfare and sacrifice, and this animal was clearly a vital part of Indo-Aryan society... But there is not horse imagery at all in the Indus Valley civilization and virtually no horse remains have been found by archaeologists. Hence the Indus civilizations is unlikely to have been Indo-Aryan. [pp 290-291]
Lost Languages: The Enigma Of The Worlds Undeciphered Scripts Lost Languages:
The Enigma Of The World's Undeciphered Scripts

by Andrew Robinson


4 posted on 03/31/2007 7:47:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Uncracked Ancient Codes
(Lost Languages reviewed)
by William C. West
Sanskrit and early Dravidian, the ancient languages of India, seem to be the keys to deciphering the highly challenging script of the Indus Valley civilization of the third millennium b.c. in what is now Pakistan and northwest India. As with other languages, a photographic corpus of drawings, a sign list and a concordance must be compiled before decipherment will be possible. Work has proceeded along these lines for inscriptions on some 3,700 objects from the Indus Valley, most of them seal stones with very brief inscriptions (the longest has only 26 characters)... Robinson's descriptions of such analysis, and his accounts of both successful and unsuccessful decoding attempts, are clear, provocative and stimulating.
One sees what one wants to
by Iravatham Mahadevan
I agree with Rajaram that it is time we put this 'horse business' behind us and look at the decipherment itself. I have done so. The Jha-Rajaram 'decipherment' is completely invalid. It is, in fact, a non-starter for the simple reason that the direction of reading adopted by the authors is wrong, as demonstrated by Witzel and Farmer (Frontline, October 13, box item at p.12). The 'decipherment' makes as much sense as you would get out of this page if you try to read it from a mirror reflection.
Of Rajaram's 'Horses', 'decipherment', and civilisational issues
by Asko Parpola
It is sad that in South Asia, as elsewhere in the world, linguistic and religious controversies are the cause of so much injustice and suffering. We should remember that from the very beginning, Aryan and non-Aryan languages and associated cultures, religions and peoples have intermingled and have become inextricably mixed. Every element of the population has contributed to the creation of Indian civilisation, and every one of them deserves credit for it.
Deciphering the Indus Script Early Tamil Epigraphy from the Earliest Times to the Sixth Century A.D.
Deciphering the Indus Script
by Asko Parpola
Early Tamil Epigraphy
from the Earliest Times
to the Sixth Century A.D.

by Iravatham Mahadevan


5 posted on 03/31/2007 7:47:51 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

6 posted on 03/31/2007 7:48:08 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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German Indologist claims to have decoded Indus scripts
ZeeNews | February 7, 2007 | Unsigned
Posted on 02/17/2007 9:31:24 AM EST by aculeus
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1786487/posts

'Indus Valley Civilization Was More Varied And Wider'
Express India | 3-5-2007 | Abhay Mishra
Posted on 03/06/2007 12:57:57 PM EST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1796151/posts

Can the monkey god save Rama's underwater bridge?
Times Online | March 27, 2007 | Ruth Gledhill and Jeremy Page
Posted on 03/27/2007 9:43:20 AM EDT by Alex Murphy
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1807446/posts


7 posted on 03/31/2007 7:52:52 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

Speaking of India, the article on this page:
http://www.ufoarea.com/aas_nasa_bridge.html
has some photos from NASA that purport to show a submerged land bridge or passage from India to Sri Lanka. It's worth a look.


8 posted on 03/31/2007 8:48:46 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: Renfield

:')

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1807446/posts?page=2#2


9 posted on 03/31/2007 9:14:04 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Now I could get lost for hours investigating that....


10 posted on 03/31/2007 9:40:30 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
:')

Star Trek Inspirational Posters

11 posted on 03/31/2007 10:00:29 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

I have a cousin with that name...I thought he was just using a internet handle until I got to know him better... LOL


12 posted on 03/31/2007 10:05:57 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
At some point, I'd like to use this one as well:

Words don't always solve problems. Sometimes you just have to punch an alien in the face.

Star Trek Inspirational Posters

13 posted on 03/31/2007 10:22:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

That is a good one!


14 posted on 03/31/2007 10:26:11 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: SunkenCiv
I had my Y-chromosome done and I'm in the haplotype R1b group. My genetic roadmap shows that my male ancestors made a pass through that region 30-50,000 years ago. See my roadmap here. (I don't know how long this link will work)
15 posted on 03/31/2007 10:35:18 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I'm gettin' a black background and that's it. Perhaps I need to turn on Javascript?


16 posted on 03/31/2007 10:54:40 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

That didn't work. The server must only spit out the results tailored to the customer, because I got text the second time, clicked "acknowledge", and wound up in a screen explaining the steps etc.


17 posted on 03/31/2007 11:02:35 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
"That didn't work. The server must only spit out the results tailored to the customer, because I got text the second time, clicked "acknowledge", and wound up in a screen explaining the steps etc."

I expected that they wouldn't allow others to see it. BTW, 90% of the people of Ireland have the same Y-chromosome DNA as myself.

18 posted on 03/31/2007 11:06:48 AM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
In one of Oppenheimer's books, he said that about 50% of Europeans can trace their DNA to a guy in the north Indus valley who made their way to Europe through the Middle East. The other 50% of Europeans can trace their DNA to the same region to a son of the same man who made their way to Europe via Russia a thousand years later. My people took the route through Russia and wound up in the Franco-Iberian refuge before expanding back north after the Ice Age.

I have submitted a sample to check my mtDNA now.

19 posted on 03/31/2007 11:13:29 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Heh... I'm not touchin' that line with a twenty foot caber.


20 posted on 03/31/2007 11:24:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Saturday, March 31, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam

Busy guys.


21 posted on 04/02/2007 9:28:19 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Renfield

22 posted on 04/02/2007 1:38:20 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

I'd say there was a bridge there.

23 posted on 04/02/2007 1:39:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Folkloric memory of lower sealevel?


24 posted on 04/02/2007 5:27:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Monday, April 2, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
"Folkloric memory of lower sealevel?"

Maybe. That would be about 7,000 years ago. I don't think the YD had a significant effect.(?)

25 posted on 04/02/2007 5:33:37 PM PDT by blam
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NASA digital images discover ancient “Ramayana” bridge between India, Lanka
PTI | Washington, October 09 2002 | Editorial Staff
Posted on 10/09/2002 11:35:38 AM EDT by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/765870/posts

Ram Sethu: Scientific Evidence Of Ancient Human Activity (Ramas Bridge)
Organizer | 4-29-2007 | S. Kalyanaraman
Posted on 04/23/2007 6:35:24 PM EDT by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1822290/posts

History stands still in seabed off Sri Lanka
Asian Tribune | Sunday, July 8, 2007 | Janaka Perera
Posted on 07/09/2007 2:01:39 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1862859/posts


26 posted on 07/09/2007 8:09:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (This tagline optimized for the Mosaic browser. Profile updated Friday, July 6, 2007.)
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Glyphs
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27 posted on 07/28/2008 11:08:50 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_________________________Profile updated Friday, May 30, 2008)
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