Posted on 06/04/2007 10:50:49 AM PDT by blam
Fathers of the zodiac tracked down
Astronomer shows when and where his ancient counterparts worked.
Geoff Brumfiel
The MUL.APIN tablets record the dates that constellations appeared in the Assyrian sky. R. D. Flavin
Using modern techniques — and some rocks — a US astronomer has traced the origin of a set of ancient clay tablets to a precise date and place. The tablets show constellations thought to be precursors of the present-day zodiac.
The tablets, known collectively as MUL.APIN, contain nearly 200 astronomical observations, including measurements related to several constellations. They are written in cuneiform, a Middle-Eastern script that is one of the oldest known forms of writing, and were made in Babylon around 687 BC.
But most archaeologists believe that the tablets are transcriptions of much earlier observations made by Assyrian astronomers. Just how much older has been disputed — the estimates go back to 2,300 BC.
Now Brad Schaefer, an astronomer at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, says he has dated the observations to 1,370 BC, give or take a century.
The tablets contain a number of different observations, including the day each year that certain constellations first appeared in the dawn sky. These dates change over the millennia because of a tiny wobble in the Earth's axis.
"It's like a big hour hand in the sky," Schaefer says.
By studying these dates and other astronomical information, such as the dates certain constellations were directly overhead, Schaefer nailed down the year the measurements were taken.
He also worked out that the ancient observers lived within roughly 100 kilometres of 35.1° N — an area that includes the ancient Assyrian cities of Ninova and Asur. The results were presented at the American Astronomical Society's summer meeting in Honolulu, Hawaii.
Star gazing
To double-check his measurements, Schaefer did his own observations at the McDonald Observatory in the Davis Mountains of Texas. Rather than using the observatory's massive 9.2-metre telescope, he stood outside and gazed at the stars. "The best equipment I used was rocks to mark where my feet were," he says.
Nevertheless, these measurements allowed him to pinpoint his own position and date more precisely than he could those of the Assyrian astronomers. He is not sure why his measurements worked better.
Schaefer's work will help settle a long-standing debate, says Hermann Hunger, an Assyriologist at the University of Vienna in Austria. Previously, historians had based their arguments on single stars or constellations on the tablets.
Schaefer's statistical analysis of all the observations on the tablets "will impress historians who cannot do the same on their own — including myself", Hunger says. He adds that most historians have settled on a rough date of 1,000 BC for the tablets, which agrees well with Schaefer's analysis.
GGG Ping.
rocks?.......Even a string and a stick would have been better......The ancient astrologers were not stupid. Their very lives depended on their measurements. If they screwed up their heads would be on the sticks........
What’s amazing is that the ancient astronomers figured out the precession of the equinoxes caused by a wobble in Earth’s spin axis. A fixed viewpoint would follow a circle in the sky, with the 12 constellations of the Zodiac in that circle. The amazing part is the precession cycle is almost 26,000 years, but they figured it out with very short observation time. No civilization lasted anywhere near long enough to observe very much of the precession arc. I wonder if they had....help?
World's oldest telescope?According to Professor Giovanni Pettinato of the University of Rome, a rock crystal lens, currently on show in the British museum, could rewrite the history of science. He believes that it could explain why the ancient Assyrians knew so much about astronomy. It is a theory many scientists might be prepared to accept, but the idea that the rock crystal was part of a telescope is something else. To get from a lens to a telescope, they say, is an enormous leap. Professor Pettinato counters by asking for an explanation of how the ancient Assyrians regarded the planet Saturn as a god surrounded by a ring of serpents?
by Dr David Whitehouse
Thursday, July 1, 1999
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“Nevertheless, these measurements allowed him to pinpoint his own position and date more precisely than he could those of the Assyrian astronomers. He is not sure why his measurements worked better.”
I wonder if the figures he had in his tables had copyist-introduced errors, as is common in later manuscripts? How about continental drift for another, somewhat wilder, explanation?
“World’s oldest telescope?”
Neat article. The ancients seemed to think that their times were degenerate, compared to earlier times. Our world seems to think we’re the Golden Age. I wonder, sometimes.
I thought that was Jacques Costeau?
L
Rough life, being an Astronomer.
Rades, do you have any comment?
RA has opused out and gone to WideAwakes.net.
... and they discovered the Ouija board also dated to the same period.
Unless it were the Nefilim/Anunnaki, who would have reason to use the heavens as a time clock and calendar. Each sign of the Zodiac supposedly corresponded to the length of earth time marking the beginning and end of rulership of the Pantheon members. Also used to determine the location of the rogue planet (Nibiru, original home of the Nefilim) at any given time within its 3,600-year (shar) orbit around the sun. (Re: Sitchin)
I'm sure no man-made clocks/calendars would have lasted that long, except perhaps some of the ancient observatories/temples (including the pyramid) which were oriented (astro-archeologically) to point to zero degrees of the houses.
IIRC, Marduk (son of Enki), according to myth, got his panties all in a wad and started a war to usurp the throne early, claiming that he was allowed to use lunar time instead of solar time.
"Do you have a reputable link for that?" /sarc
Cheers!
I assure you we are in a golden age.
Not the first, won't be the last (Well, maybe this one will, we do have the technological capability to clear the planet of all meaningful life).
I expect that as no more of this Great Society will survive the next Ice Age than survived the last one...
Dang!
I’m not sure, but it seems to have happened during the bugzapper thread. They were discussing it over here...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1840286/posts?page=1072#1072
Yeah, pride goeth before a fall; and nemesis follows hubris. Of course, prophecy only applies to the past... ;’) I think Lurker is onto something as well.
“Not the first, won’t be the last (Well, maybe this one will, we do have the technological capability to clear the planet of all meaningful life).”
Assuming we know all of history worth knowing, our society may be the “highest.” On the other hand, The Vedas tell stories of a time when weapons of similar power were used. Maybe that’s why we don’t know all the history we think we do? If we do, anyway. To us, Atlantis is a myth. Will we someday be a myth, also?
Dunno.
Here's BlueLancer's take:
200 years from now, I want their children's children's children's children
to cower and cringe in fear whenever they hear the sounds of jet engines overhead
because their legends tell of fire from the sky.
I want them to hide in dark caves and holes in the earth,
shivering with terror whenever they hear the roar of diesel engines
because the tales of their ancestors talk about metal monsters
crawling over the earth, spitting death and destruction.
I want their mothers to be able to admonish them with
"If you don't behave, the Pale Destroyers will come for you",
and that will be enough to reduce them to quivering obesience.
I want the annihilation to be so complete that their mythology
will tell them of the day of judgment when the stern gods from across the sea
.. the powerful 'Mericans .. destroyed their forefathers' wickedness.
(Original created by BlueLancer ... 13 September 2001)
If we can get the rest of the world squared away, maybe they’ll at least remember that we existed, once upon a time.
BlueLancers’s original post was on a different topic (note the date) and I liked it so much then, that I quote it whenever it vaguely fits.
Ratboy and I have discussed deep history many times, last night chimera in a Harry Potter book brought the subject up again. How would our 100 generation hence descendants describe our current lab animals, like the hu-mouse?
One can hope.
If we fail, they might remember us as the bad guys, history being written by the victors, or when there are no winners, by the survivors.
Do you read science fiction? In an old book by H. Beam Piper, “Space Viking” he described the stories of the people of Tanith about the fall of the Federation and tha abandonment of their world.
“It takes an awful lot of people, working together at an awful lot of jobs, to keep a civilization running. Smash the installations and kill the top technicians and scientists, and the masses don’t know how to rebuild and go back to stone hatchets. Kill off enough of the masses and even if the planet and the know-how is left, there’s nobody to do the work. I’ve seen planets that decivilized both ways. Tanith, I think, is one of the latter.”
That had been during one of the long after-dinner bull sessions on the way out from Gram. Somebody, one of the noble gentlemen-adventurers who had joined the company after the piracy of the _Enterprise_ and the murder, had asked:
“But some of them survived. Don’t they know what happened?”
“_’In the old times, there were sorcerers. They built the old buildings by wizard arts. Then the sorcerers fought among themselves and went away,’_” Harkaman said. “That’s all they know about it.”
You could make any kind of an explanation out of that.”
“One can hope.
If we fail, they might remember us as the bad guys, history being written by the victors, or when there are no winners, by the survivors.”
And who is more likely to survive? People who already live on the edge, and are toughed to it, or those who can’t even pick their own lettuce?
“Earth Abides” is another one to read...
Indeed, one of the most popular pop kulture series begins with “Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away”...
Somehow I missed that particular Piper story, I’ll have to track it down. Ever read Little Fuzzy?
Read it. Loved it.
Somehow I missed that particular Piper story, I’ll have to track it down. Ever read Little Fuzzy?”
I’ve ready everything I could ever track down by Piper. Starting with Little Fuzzy, that being the book my mom had back when I was a kid. I just bought the hardback of Fuzzies and Other People from Amazon a few months ago, completing (blast it!) my Piper library. A lot of his stuff is on Project Gutenberg now, btw. That is where I pulled the quote from Space Viking.
I saw Star Wars when it was first run. Seven times. ;) I’ve got all the videos I can lay hands on, too. Also a copy of the first paperback printing.
I’d like to see someone who loves Piper’s work as much as I do turn them into videos. Anime would be fine by me...
Me too!
Ummmmm, opening screen shot from 'Star Wars'.
I saw it the Saturday after the Thursday opening (at the Hollywood Egyptian Theater, IIRC) there was a guy in line a few people back from me who had already seen it 12 times!
I saw it the week after it opened in Fort Walton Beach, and by then my boss had been there something like 19 times. He went with me for the first of my 7 trips, too.
LOL! It was quite the movie in its day...
More popular that Star Trek, imho. More realistic, too, if that’s not too fantastic a thing to say...
Now you’re being silly...
;^P
The Middle Times were ending, and the heavens were filled with fire, and The Lord did fight to throw The Daemon out of the heavens.
And the fight was fierce, and the sky was filled with bright flashes of fire, and debris did rain down on the people, and they were frightened.
And The Lord did seem to cast The Daemon out.
And The People did wear clothing, and such armor and helms as they had, to protect them, all painted in the various colors of the desert, so The Daemon might not see them.
And The Daemon did come, as if cast from the heavens, roaring down with a great noise, a frightening wail as had never been heard before.
And The People saw him approach the earth, and they were afraid.
And The People faced The Daemon, and prostrated themselves flat on their bellies; and they turned up their collars, to hide their necks, and they tucked their arms under them, lest the Daemon see their hands; and they bowed their heads, and seemed to kiss the dry desert floor.
But The Daemon knew them, and saw them in the desert, and was displeased, that they had attempted to hide.
And The Daemon released his awful wrath, and The People were terrified.
And those of The People that had displeased The Daemon, by their proximity to him, were instantly consumed by fire, such that all that was left of them, and of their clothes, and of their armor and helms, was a dark stain on the dry, cracked desert floor.
And those that had displeased The Daemon, by casting their eyes on him, were instantly struck blind, never to see again.
And those farther yet from The Daemon, were burned horribly, although they did live, some for a day, some lingering on in awful pain for weeks.
And those farther yet from The Daemon, they thought themselves spared, and that the Daemon might let them live.
And then The Daemon did exhale, in a mighty blast of hot air, so strongly that boulders were tossed across the desert, as a child might skip a rock on a calm lake; and the sick, and the burned, and the wounded, and the dead, were rolled up in the great wave of The Daemons breath, and many were crushed.
And then did The Daemon draw breath, in a wave of air as strong as his mighty exhalation, and more of The People were caught up, and torn, and crushed by the rocks and boulders of the desert.
And then there was a mighty clap, such that many of The People that had survived thus far were struck deaf, and The Daemon was gone.
And in place of The Daemon was a mighty pillar of fire, topped by a huge cloud of smoke, that blacked out the sun, and made the day into night.
And those of The People who had survived, again thought that they had bean spared; but many among them did sicken, and their fingernails, and their toenails, and their teeth did fall out, and they did die.
And The People were no more, and only a few, scattered through the desert, did survive.
And the Final Times did begin.
I wrote it one day while out on the missile range - I was trying to describe a nuke, from the perspective of someone generations later.
Ever notice how our infrastructure is getting smaller?
Some countries don’t even bother with phone wires anymore - they go straight to cell towers.
VERY well.
Thank you.
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So did I!
Since you started it (nearly two years ago), a smaller, less robust infrastructure makes it easier to destroy, and harder to rebuild.
Look at Larry Niven's "Ring World". That world had a power failure caused by a bug eating the organic control wiring, and they were unable to recover.
To think that I knew Patton from his early days of writing bodice rippers!
;<)
that is really cool.
Read it one day in high school, between math classes.
I never write bodice-rippers. I write love stories, that get me in trouble.
Thank you - typos on the internet never die...LOL.
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