Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Tomb search could end riddle of Shakespeare's true identity [Fulke Greville]
Telegraph ^ | Sunday, August 9th, 2009 | David Harrison

Posted on 08/31/2009 7:33:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

Parishioners at St Mary's church in Warwick have sought permission to examine the contents of the 17th century monument built by Fulke Greville, a writer and contemporary of Shakespeare who some believe is the true author of several of the Bard's works... the search has been prompted by the discovery by an historian of clues in Greville's writings which suggest he had several manuscripts buried there, including a copy of Antony and Cleopatra. A radar scan of the sarcophagus has already indicated the presence inside of three "box like" shapes. The searchers believe these could contain documents and a further examination is now being proposed which they hope will finally prove the link between Greville and Shakespeare. The initial search, using ground penetrating radar, was approved by the parochial church council and the diocesan council. The team now wants to use an endoscope -- a tiny video camera on a long thin tube -- to be inserted into the monument to test his claims... The parochial council also wants the sarcophagus to be opened because it believes that any new evidence will bring extra visitors and save the church, the foundations of which date back 900 years, from bankruptcy... However, the diocesan advisory committee and the Church Buildings Council are resisting the new search, on "ethical grounds" and a final decision could now be taken by the diocese's consistory court. The search has been prompted by the work of the historian AWL Saunders. He believes there are several clues suggesting Greville, who is a distant ancestor, is responsible for writing a number of Shakespeare's works.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: fulkegreville; godsgravesglyphs; history; science; shakespeare; sweetswanofavon
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last
chrono sort, Shakespeare keyword, very little editing:
1 posted on 08/31/2009 7:33:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Believe it or not, when I was securing an elite liberal arts education at Bowdoin College, I actually studied the poetry of Fulke Greville. He wasn't Shakespeare, not by a damn sight.
2 posted on 08/31/2009 7:36:43 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Key sentence:

The parochial council also wants the sarcophagus to be opened because it believes that any new evidence will bring extra visitors and save the church, the foundations of which date back 900 years, from bankruptcy...


3 posted on 08/31/2009 7:42:09 PM PDT by Constitution Day
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Ben Jonson, rival and contemporary (and good friend) of Shakespeare, helped collect, organize, and edit the First Folio of Shakespeare's works. He also contributed one of a number of dedicatory introductions, in which he referred to Shakespeare by name, and called him "sweet swan of Avon", and best known perhaps is this tribute -- "He was not of an age, but for all time !".

Guess Ben Jonson was one of the masterminds of the conspiracy. ;')

I had the pleasure of getting a great price on that Michael Wood documentary on Shakespeare, and have watched it twice since July. There's a cool segment where a couple of British stage actors who mostly work in the Elizabethan idiom joke about the differences between Christopher "Kit" Marlowe -- who has also been claimed to have been the "real" author of Shakespeare's works -- and Shakespeare. After one gives an illustrative example (soliloquies), the other says, you'll never find an actor who believes that they were the same person. :')

A fun Oh So Mysteriouso topic, worth a ping I think.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Discover · Nat Geographic · Texas AM Anthro News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · Google ·
· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


4 posted on 08/31/2009 7:42:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Francis Bacon?????


5 posted on 08/31/2009 7:43:41 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, bacon.


6 posted on 08/31/2009 7:51:36 PM PDT by CaptRon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer
Francis Bacon?????

Do you mean "Six Degrees of Separation" Bacon?

7 posted on 08/31/2009 7:53:57 PM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer
I believed it to be Edward Devere (7th Earl of Oxford). Joseph Sobran made a good case for him in Alias Shakespeare (at least I thought so).
8 posted on 08/31/2009 7:54:15 PM PDT by VR-21 (If it's a vision of the future you want......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,

It's a Fulkeing tradegdy.
9 posted on 08/31/2009 7:56:11 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Government needs a Keelhauling now and then.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

I thought the true author of Shakespeare’s Works was an infinite number of monkeys?


10 posted on 08/31/2009 7:56:26 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Constitution Day

Exactly. :’) From that standpoint, I don’t begrudge them. Part of the reason for the survival of the King Arthur legend is due to a promo campaign by Glastonbury.


11 posted on 08/31/2009 7:56:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard

Wow, lucky bum. ;’)


12 posted on 08/31/2009 7:56:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

As far as the books go my bet is on the termites.


13 posted on 08/31/2009 7:57:03 PM PDT by Parley Baer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BIGLOOK

IBTZ. ;’) :’D That guy had a little euphony problem with his name, maybe that’s why he devoted his life to writing some of the world’s greatest masterpieces under an assumed name. ;’)


14 posted on 08/31/2009 7:58:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
"Fulke spent the equivalent of £300,000 today on a marble sarcophagus at St Mary's. No man would build something like that and leave it empty. There is definitely something down there and we want to find out what it is."

What means this? Isn't Lord Dedboddy in there?

15 posted on 08/31/2009 7:58:51 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Rebellion is not brewing. Frog is brewing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy

That would explain “Timon of Athens” and “Titus Andronicus”...


16 posted on 08/31/2009 7:59:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

Hey, maybe he was ticked off at his heirs and wanted to leave them destitute. ;’)


17 posted on 08/31/2009 8:00:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Parley Baer

Heh...


18 posted on 08/31/2009 8:00:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer; CaptRon; Auntie Dem; VR-21

:’) An older title (I think circa 1960), bought it used, I read a year or more ago, called “The Hidden Shakespeare”, thoroughly examines the idea that Shakespeare didn’t write his own plays, and traces all of this lunacy back to a nutty book from about 150 years ago (if memory serves). One book by one wackadoo has turned into a cottage industry serving generations of cranks. :’)


19 posted on 08/31/2009 8:03:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

Shakespeare was the nom dewhatever of Guy Fawkes when Fawkes was working his propaganda mischief.

I thought everyone knew that?


20 posted on 08/31/2009 8:08:38 PM PDT by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast; All

There is definitely something down there and we want to find out what it is.”

***

Per chance, dost yon copy of the Obama’s longe-forme birth charter lay there amongst the bones of good citizen Hoffa ???


21 posted on 08/31/2009 8:28:02 PM PDT by Lmo56
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: CaptRon

Yummm - bacon ... you been following the bacon stuff on FARK? Funny ....


22 posted on 08/31/2009 8:51:01 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Auntie Dem

During homeschooling I read different things about how Francis Bacon could have written Shakespere’s stuff ... but then, there’s all this conspiricy about him like was he really real?


23 posted on 08/31/2009 8:52:55 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Conspiracy theorists have a need for existence ... didn't you see that movie with Mel Gibson - Conspiracy???
24 posted on 08/31/2009 8:54:27 PM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast; SunkenCiv
There is definitely something down there and we want to find out what it is."

I'm waiting for the follow up post too...

25 posted on 08/31/2009 8:56:11 PM PDT by GOPJ ( "Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." - - Adam Smith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

26 posted on 08/31/2009 8:58:52 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Calling Geraldo! Calling Geraldo!


27 posted on 08/31/2009 9:20:40 PM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

28 posted on 08/31/2009 9:26:49 PM PDT by Daffynition ("...... we are about to be czarred and fettered." ~ alterum ictum faciam.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard

I always wondered: Didn’t Shakespeare write Shakespeare? Why the conspiracy theories?


29 posted on 09/01/2009 5:01:58 AM PDT by dangus (I am JimThompson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: VR-21

“I believed it to be Edward Devere (7th Earl of Oxford). Joseph Sobran made a good case for him in Alias Shakespeare”

I agree with you.


30 posted on 09/01/2009 5:13:57 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dangus; GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
There's very little that is known about the man from Stratford who we all think of as the author of the works (I was astonished to find out how much of what we read about him is purely speculative). There's very little about him that suggest that he could have the classical education and intimate knowledge of life as a nobleman to have authored those works, and there's a school of thought among scholars that the man of Stratford was a 'front-man' for a nobleman who was the actual author. Writing plays, poetry and involvement with the theatre was considered very inappropriate for the aristocracy. Sir Francis Bacon (as mentioned by another poster) is mentioned as is Christopher Marlowe and Edward DeVere (7th Earl of Oxford), but the best evidence in my view points to Oxford. His life contained much of what is written about in the plays, and it is his relationship with the young Earl of Southhampton that is thought to be the inspiration behind The Sonnets (seemingly a journal of a two year long homosexual affair that would also have been frowned upon at that time in history). It is a long (one of the most outspoken 'Oxfordians' was Samuel Clemens) and surprisingly intense debate among scholars. Many actors and playwrights, including Orson Wells and Henry James are 'Oxfordians.' I'm anything but a scholar myself, but I do enjoy Shakespeare, and I found Sobran's book Alias Shakespeare fascinating. The Shakespeare-Oxford Society website, http://www.shakespeare-oxford.com has some good information about it.
31 posted on 09/01/2009 7:59:03 AM PDT by VR-21 (If it's a vision of the future you want......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
I think the real Shakespeare was the Queen of England, Elizabeth I, who, by all accounts knew about medicine, history, astro travel, law, book keeping, dentistry, astronomy and poisons. What she didn't know she had the trusted Earl of Oxford and Francis Bacon to advise and inform her. Between wars with Spain she always had a lot of time on her hands and this was a constructive way to keep her idle hands busy. Not having any children she was free to read her Machiavelli, spawn and quash some court intrigues and play the biggest literary prank known to only a few of her most devoted sycophants.


32 posted on 09/01/2009 8:16:34 AM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
One book by one wackadoo has turned into a cottage industry serving generations of cranks.

Not the first time.

33 posted on 09/01/2009 9:36:12 AM PDT by Jaded (No act of kindness, no matter how small, ever goes unpunished. -HFG)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Lmo56
"Per chance, dost yon copy of the Obama’s longe-forme birth charter lay there amongst the bones of good citizen Hoffa ???"

Heh! GOOD one!

34 posted on 09/01/2009 10:02:43 AM PDT by redhead (Demand that congress abide by the 10th Amendment. O-care is ILLEGAL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Why do so many people believe in Shakespeare conspiracy theories?

Well, duh, why do so many believe in contemporary conspiracy theories . . . .

35 posted on 09/01/2009 10:05:01 AM PDT by colorado tanker (Martha's Vineyard is great! Hey, honey, let's take a drive . . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VR-21

VR-21, thank you for your post.

We need to talk. But give me until tomorrow to answer you.

In particular, I need to find out the name of a book that was published probably in the ‘80s which I wanted to buy but can’t remember the title or the name of the author. It was a thick book. It was probably the first book that came out naming Edward DeVere as the author of Shakespeare’s plays.

Between you and me and the rest of FR, my father purchased it for me, he passed away, and a family member, an in-law, grabbed it and took it home. I am sure to this day she has never read page 1 of it.

Never the less, I have been crazy to find that book so I can order it.

Thank you. I will write tomorrow. I need to get my thoughts in line (brain).


36 posted on 09/01/2009 10:50:43 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv; hinckley buzzard; VR-21
Are there any accessible databases on the Internet with the original texts from Shakespeare, i.e. not adjusted text transcribed into modern (or semi-modern) English. The original language with typos etc.
37 posted on 09/01/2009 11:37:16 AM PDT by AdmSmith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hinckley buzzard
"Believe it or not, when I was securing an elite liberal arts education at Bowdoin College..."

Interesting...I briefly explored Greville while securing my elite liberal arts education at Gettysburg College. Looks like we both went to schools with a Joshua Chamberlain connection ;-)

38 posted on 09/01/2009 11:40:37 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith
"Are there any accessible databases on the Internet with the original texts from Shakespeare, i.e. not adjusted text transcribed into modern (or semi-modern) English. The original language with typos etc."

I'm not aware of any, but there are several "societies" devoted to the study of Shakespeare who have websites and I think they would be your best bet.

39 posted on 09/01/2009 12:41:14 PM PDT by VR-21 (If it's a vision of the future you want......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith

Shakespeare First Folio (this is etext, but scanned with OCR then hand corrected)

http://etext.virginia.edu/shakespeare/folio/


40 posted on 09/01/2009 2:49:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: GatĂșn(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

The idea that Oxford authored the plays (despite having died in 1604) didn’t originate in a book in the 1980s, it’s at least as old as 1920:

“Shakespeare” Identified
In Edward De Vere the Seventeenth
Earl of Oxford
by J. Thomas Looney
http://www.shakespearefellowship.org/etexts/si/00.htm


41 posted on 09/01/2009 2:55:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
why do so many believe in contemporary conspiracy theories
I think that's a vital aspect of the conspiracy itself... ;')
42 posted on 09/01/2009 2:56:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Blind Eye Jones

She died in 1603, Shakespeare continued to write until 1613. :’)


43 posted on 09/01/2009 2:58:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Jaded

Heh... or the last.


44 posted on 09/01/2009 2:58:21 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: wildbill

Not so loud, he’ll hear you and show up.


45 posted on 09/01/2009 3:00:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: GOPJ

To really come full circle, the boxes should contain the private papers of William Shakespeare. ;’) The real ones burned up in a house fire a generation or so after he died. Mighty convenient if ya ask me. ;’) ;’) ;’)


46 posted on 09/01/2009 3:02:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

:’)


47 posted on 09/01/2009 3:04:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Daffynition

:’D


48 posted on 09/01/2009 3:04:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: VR-21

When Shakespeare was still a kid, a local woman — Katherine Hamlet — slipped and fell into the Avon and drowned (she had buckets apparently to fetch water for her household). His father was a little on the shady side of the law and got hauled into court a couple of times (at least) regarding illegal wool dealing; as a result of one of these court cases the family took a financial hit, and Will never finished up his education by going to university.

That was a break for everyone who has ever enjoyed his plays and sonnets.

The socialist Samuel Clemens claimed in print that William Shakespeare couldn’t even sign his name, iow, that he was illiterate, which was an ignorant lie. Most of the candidates put forth as the “real” author of Shakespeare’s works, including Oxford and Marlowe, but not Bacon, died well before Shakespeare finished his writing career.


49 posted on 09/01/2009 3:17:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
"The idea that Oxford authored the plays (despite having died in 1604) didn’t originate in a book in the 1980s, it’s at least as old as 1920

I believe Horace Walpole ("Castle of Otranto" author) in the late 18th century also theorized that Edward de Vere was the real author.
50 posted on 09/01/2009 6:22:16 PM PDT by KamperKen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson