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Counting On Progress: Roman numerals were fine for adding and subtracting. Fibonacci saw that...
Wall St Journal ^ | Thursday, July 7, 2011 | reviewed by Alan Hirshfeld

Posted on 07/07/2011 9:17:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

For popular historians, there is a constant tension between patching up a holey narrative and honoring a commitment to the facts, as rickety as these often are. Perhaps authors of historical fiction have an easier time of it; they use facts as the yeast to grow fully formed characters, convincing dialogue and a credible story line. We are eager partners in these literary deceptions, for the opportunity to stand shoulder to shoulder with Renault's Alexander or Graves's Claudius. Nonfiction historians are hogtied; no amount of speculative verbiage can truly fill an absence of facts. Such is the case with Fibonacci and countless others, reduced to ciphers by the passage of time. Civilization advances through their incremental contributions to science, technology and the arts. And as Mr. Devlin reminds us, even something as prosaic as a sequence of 10 numbers can remake an entire world.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; fibonacci; godsgravesglyphs; pages; stringtheory; xplanets

full title: Counting On Progress: Roman numerals were fine for adding and subtracting. Fibonacci saw that complex math required a better system.

The Man of Numbers: Fibonaccis Arithmetic Revolution The Man of Numbers:
Fibonacci's Arithmetic Revolution

by Keith Devlin


1 posted on 07/07/2011 9:17:45 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv

Yeah, but try long division with Roman numerals.


2 posted on 07/07/2011 9:18:51 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: SunkenCiv

As nifty as Roman numerals look, they take up way too much room.


3 posted on 07/07/2011 9:23:45 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Cincinna; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

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Thanks Cincinna.

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4 posted on 07/07/2011 9:25:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: The KG9 Kid
try long division with Roman numerals.

I would, but I'm scheduled to run, naked and drunk, down the street with sharp pencils taped to my eyelids and holding a pair of sissors in my teeth by the blade. Later, I have a proctologist/dentist appointment (he gives a discount).

/johnny

5 posted on 07/07/2011 9:32:34 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: skr

Especially on a mini-calculator. : )


6 posted on 07/07/2011 9:36:07 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Just ouch!


7 posted on 07/07/2011 9:36:47 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; Las Vegas Dave; ...

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8 posted on 07/07/2011 9:37:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...



9 posted on 07/07/2011 9:37:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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X-Planets
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10 posted on 07/07/2011 9:37:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: skr
Better than long division with roman numerals.

/johnny

11 posted on 07/07/2011 9:43:38 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: The KG9 Kid
Yeah, but try long division with Roman numerals.

I can't even come close to doing that, and I took two years of Latin in high school.

BTW, what's the square root of XIX?

12 posted on 07/07/2011 10:28:30 PM PDT by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Roman Numerals
13 posted on 07/07/2011 10:52:16 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Rudder
"... BTW, what's the square root of XIX?"

If the Romans defined numbers smaller than "I" (One), which they didn't, and therefore understood the decimal point in a non-duodecimal base10 numeric system, which they didn't, we can express the square root of the Roman number 29 in the following anachronistic way:

V.MMMDCCCLI

14 posted on 07/07/2011 11:03:10 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid

XXIX or IXXX = 29

XIX = 19

the answer would be IV and change...


15 posted on 07/07/2011 11:38:43 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun control means hitting where you're aiming!)
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To: castlebrew

oh rats. How did I miss that.

ALRIGHT THEN:

IV.MMMDLXXXVIII


16 posted on 07/08/2011 12:20:13 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: SunkenCiv

Sorry to hear about Falafal’s defeat. If only his staunch friend and strong right arm, Joxer The Mighty, hadn’t been delayed by a nasty blister on his heel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gIGk9PATvs


17 posted on 07/08/2011 1:18:57 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Good post to question why IV is substituted with IIII on numeral clocks. I’ve heard theories. They all end with pompous displays and/or material saving.


18 posted on 07/08/2011 2:14:35 AM PDT by allmost
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To: SunkenCiv

So what sort of numerals did the Greeks use at about the time Romans were using roman numerals?


19 posted on 07/08/2011 3:51:14 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing an idiot)
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To: muir_redwoods

Wiki has a good page on Greek numerals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals

Looks like prior to 400 BC they used an unwieldy alphabet-related system which was the precursor to the Roman numeral system. After 400 BC they used a different but still unwieldy alphabetic system. I’m guessing this lasted until around the Middle Ages when Europe adopted Arabic numerals.

Wiki also has a good page on Arabic numberals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

I didn’t realize that Arabic numerals were called “Hindu numerals” by the Arabs. They were purely an Indian invention. The only reason we know them as Arabic numerals is that it was the Arabs who passed them along to Europe.


20 posted on 07/08/2011 4:26:55 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: SunkenCiv
Huh?!? I just thought of something (duh) that I should have 40+ years ago. That is without decimals or fractions using Roman Numerals, all that marvelous Roman Construction, like the Colosseum in Rome, was a real task -- and *prolly almost* impossible to duplicate today.

Their 'Blueprints' (aka: construction drawings) and buildings all had to be in whole numbers. And in my 45 years in Drafting and Engineering, and 41 years in the Commercial Construction 'bidness', I've never seen it.

Granted expecting something to actually be constructed to an 1/8" of inch is a bit much in 'the real world', but none the less that's how Architects and Structural Engineers have it on their design drawings (Blueprints).

And believe it or not, but sometimes - and getting more common now - us in the construction trades fight over 1/2" of space above the ceiling to install our work.

'Way back when' we joked that 'it wasn't Rocket Science'. Well... the tolerances are getting there as the taller a building is per floor height, the more it costs the owner. And those costs now are 'HUGH'.

21 posted on 07/08/2011 5:14:39 AM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits [A.Einstein])
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To: The KG9 Kid

That’s okay. 29 is never IXXX either. It’s always XXIX.


22 posted on 07/08/2011 7:07:17 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Hummus with that?


23 posted on 07/08/2011 12:25:20 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: allmost

For that matter, why not IIIII instead of V? And wny not VV instead of X?


24 posted on 07/09/2011 2:15:15 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: colorado tanker

I don’t know it, but hummus a few bars and I’ll fake it.


25 posted on 07/09/2011 2:15:55 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Condor51

The Romans also used a lot of concrete. For that matter, I agree with those who say the Egyptians used yet another form of concrete to build the Giza pyramids.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/davidovits/index


26 posted on 07/09/2011 2:57:45 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: muir_redwoods

We should remember that what we call Roman numerals were called by the Romans, numerals. ;’) [insert Chinese food joke here]

Number systems were often peculiar to a town or an area; the Sumerians never had a single system for recording numbers, but rather used locally developed systems. Perhaps this shows how writing systems in general formed, and how recordkeeping only became abstract after abstract thinking had an interface and humans a way of expressing their abstractions.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2527412/posts?page=45#45

numbers in Linear A:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1173901/posts?page=13#13
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1202723/posts?page=10#10
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1289143/posts?page=12#12

other:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2658658/posts?page=22#22


27 posted on 07/09/2011 3:17:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Yes, as a matter of fact, it is that time again -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
I will get back to you a little later today re: concrete & pyramids.

I just got up a while ago and I 'ain't' clicking on all cylinders yet.

28 posted on 07/09/2011 5:38:05 AM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits [A.Einstein])
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