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New dating puts cave art in the age of Neanderthals
post-gazette ^ | June 15, 2012 | John Noble Wilford

Posted on 06/15/2012 9:26:33 AM PDT by JoeProBono

Stone Age artists were painting red disks, handprints, clublike symbols and geometric patterns on European cave walls long before previously thought, in some cases more than 40,000 years ago, scientists reported Thursday, after completing more reliable dating tests that raised a possibility that Neanderthals were the artists.

A more likely situation, the researchers said, is that the art -- 50 samples from 11 caves in northwestern Spain-- was created by anatomically modern humans fairly soon after their arrival in Europe. The findings seem to put an exclamation point to a run of recent discoveries: direct evidence from fossils that Homo sapiens populations were living in England 41,500 to 44,200 years ago and in Italy 43,000 to 45,000 years ago, and that they were making flutes in German caves about 42,000 years ago.

Then there is the new genetic evidence of modern human-Neanderthal interbreeding, suggesting a closer relationship than had been generally thought. The successful application of a newly refined uranium-thorium dating technique is also expected to send other scientists to other caves to see if they can reclaim prehistoric bragging rights.

In the new research, an international team led by Alistair W.G. Pike of England's University of Bristol determined that the red disk in the cave known as El Castillo was part of the earliest known wall decorations, at a minimum of 40,800 years old. That makes it the earliest cave art found so far in Europe, perhaps 4,000 years older than the paintings at Grotte Chauvet in France.

The handprints common at several of the Spanish caves were stencils, probably made by blowing pigment on a hand placed against the cave wall.........

(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...


TOPICS: Arts/Photography; History
KEYWORDS: caveart; cavedrawings; cavepainting; cavepaintings; godsgravesglyphs; macroetymology; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; palaeolithic; paleolithic; paleosigns

1 posted on 06/15/2012 9:26:37 AM PDT by JoeProBono
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To: SunkenCiv

Over here!


2 posted on 06/15/2012 9:30:08 AM PDT by FrogMom (There is no such thing as an honest democrat!)
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To: FrogMom

Half the “art” in most museums looks like it could have been done by neanderthals already.


3 posted on 06/15/2012 9:33:50 AM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: JoeProBono
Hey...We did that in kindergarten....and the teacher ghot paid some big bucks.

Now mom on the other hand got zip and she had to wash our hand prints off the walls besides.

But seriously...How do they know the when of something like this?? And those sure do look like well manicured hands. And I think one of them is wearing a watch.

4 posted on 06/15/2012 9:36:35 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

5 posted on 06/15/2012 9:38:12 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: FrogMom

This is a very reasonable tentative conclusion. We are dealing with a very fragmentary fossil record so better dating methods and new fossils change things rather drastically.


6 posted on 06/15/2012 9:38:19 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: JoeProBono

“It is the dawning of the age of Neanderthals

(chorus) “Neee-ann-der-thals! Nee-ann-der-thalllssss!


7 posted on 06/15/2012 9:40:13 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Sacajaweau
And I think one of them is wearing a watch.

No, that's a wrist Sun Dial. Didn't you watch the Flintstones?

8 posted on 06/15/2012 9:40:46 AM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: JoeProBono

40,000+ years kids have been putting finger prints on the walls of the home, they still do that.
Nothing has changed.


9 posted on 06/15/2012 9:43:13 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: JoeProBono

My wife said she dated some Neanderthals, before she met moi, of course.


10 posted on 06/15/2012 9:47:53 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Depone serpentem et ab venemo gradere.)
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To: svcw

11 posted on 06/15/2012 9:50:04 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: JoeProBono

Picasso appears to have been a Neanderthal..
His work appears to be like a 5 year old finger painting..


12 posted on 06/15/2012 9:52:45 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: JoeProBono

“It is the dawning of the age of Neanderthals

(chorus) “Neee-ann-der-thals! Nee-ann-der-thalllssss!


13 posted on 06/15/2012 9:57:21 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Hodar

14 posted on 06/15/2012 9:57:48 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: svcw
"40,000+ years kids have been putting finger prints on the walls of the home, they still do that."

Now if they had any sense of humor they would have done it to show 8 fingers. ;-)

15 posted on 06/15/2012 10:00:07 AM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: Pharmboy

Human-Neanderthal breeding ping.


16 posted on 06/15/2012 10:04:18 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: hosepipe

True but that was by choice not lack of talent and ability.

I have to wonder why a person who could paint in any style he chose would want such a bizarre and garish style.


17 posted on 06/15/2012 10:05:50 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: thefactor

Yeah...Google alerted me to the story this morning. I’m 2.7% Neanderthal and your sister is 2.5%, so you are likely the latter. Perhaps I can finger paint better than you...if so, we now know why.


18 posted on 06/15/2012 10:25:29 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: JoeProBono
Hmmm...proportion of palm to fingers is large. Perhaps they really were made by Neanderthals. Too bad they couldn't defend themselves against Cro Magnon as well as paint cave walls... (if it were them that did it).
19 posted on 06/15/2012 10:32:54 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: JoeProBono

apparently they were right-handed.


20 posted on 06/15/2012 10:48:02 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: JoeProBono
Neanderthals? That means they could have been made in the 1980s?
21 posted on 06/15/2012 12:04:21 PM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: JoeProBono; FrogMom

Thanks JoeProBono for the topic, and thanks FrogMom for the ping!

additional:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2895644/posts


22 posted on 06/15/2012 2:40:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks JoeProBono for the topic, and thanks FrogMom for the ping!

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


23 posted on 06/15/2012 2:41:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: JoeProBono
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
KEYWORDS: neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
24 posted on 06/15/2012 2:48:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

25 posted on 06/15/2012 3:29:00 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: FreeAtlanta

26 posted on 06/15/2012 3:33:25 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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