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Amazon Warrior Women
PBS ^ | Current | PBS

Posted on 08/04/2004 8:51:53 PM PDT by blam

Amazon Warrior Women

This painting on a Greek vase depicts an Amazon woman warrior on horseback engaged in battle.

Amazons in myth:

History's first mention of a race of warrior women comes in Homer's ILIAD, an account of the Trojan War, probably written in the 8th to the 7th century B.C. Homer's Amazons, a race of fierce women who mated with vanquished male foes and kept only the female children they bore, were believed to occupy the area around the Black Sea. Amazon women also crop up in other Greek myths. One of the labors of Hercules, for example, required him to acquire the girdle of the Amazon queen, Hippolyte. The Amazons of Greek mythology most likely had no connection to the women of the steppes, says archaeologist Jeannine Davis-Kimball. "I think the idea of the 'Amazon' was created by the Greeks for their own purposes," she says.

A history of sorts:

The histories of the Greek Herodotus, written around the 5th century B.C., describe a group of female warriors who lost to the Greeks at the battle of Thermodon. Herodotus's Amazons were taken prisoner and put on ships, but overwhelmed and killed the Greek crew. Unable to sail themselves, the women drifted to the shores of the Black Sea, to the territory of the Scythians, a nomadic culture of Iranian descent. The women, Herodotus says, intermarried with the Scythian men, and convinced their new husbands to move northeast across the flat grassy plains, high mountains, and searing deserts of the Russian steppes, where the group eventually evolved into the Sauromatian culture.

Golden ornaments such as this bead were found in abundance at a recent excavation of an Amazon warrior woman's grave.

Amazons in Eurasia:

The first direct evidence for warrior women of high status on the steppes of southern Russia comes from excavations of burials from the Sauromatian culture dating from the 6th to the 4th century B.C. Judging from their grave goods, Sauromatians were nomadic, experts in animal husbandry, and skilled in warfare.

Starting around the 4th century B.C., Sauromatian culture evolves into the Sarmatian culture, also a nomadic people that make their livelihood raising animals and versed in the art of war. The culture, which had been expanding its territory, soon shifts its focus. "They become raiders and traders, with forays to the west to interface with the Romans, and they relocate to cities and to areas along large trade routes," Davis-Kimball says. "Their wealth increases. We see that in their burial items. We see strong, powerful women, but their role changes. We find burials of women that still retain cultic artifacts, indicating that they were a priestess of some sort, but there is much more gold and more secular ornamentation -- more golden cups, more golden jewelry, elaborate things -- and less weaponry. This type of evolution is a normal manifestation of culture."

From the 2nd century B.C. to the 2nd to 3rd century A.D., the Sarmatians migrate to the west and north of the Black Sea, and eventually invade Dacia (now Romania). In the 3rd century A.D. the Sarmatians are invaded by the Goths, and in 370 A.D. they are overtaken by Huns and either killed or assimilated. Jeannine Davis-Kimball believes that remnants of the integrated Sarmatian population can still be found in the descendants of that conquering horde of Mongols. The Mongols relocated from southern Russia to western China and western Mongolia 150 to 200 years ago, where they reside today.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: amazon; cimmerians; dacia; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; gordion; herodotus; hittites; homer; iliad; kingmidas; midas; mongols; phrygia; phrygians; romania; sarmatians; sauromatians; scythians; steppes; trojanwar; troy; warrior; women

1 posted on 08/04/2004 8:51:54 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Did Amazon archers really cut off one of their breasts to facilitate the use of their weapons? In the spirit of "everything you know is wrong", I'd really like to know if this was ever documented.


2 posted on 08/04/2004 8:53:56 PM PDT by asgardshill ("Jack Black - killing brain cells and making friends UNTIL 2004")
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To: Xenalyte

This should have been an auto-ping.


3 posted on 08/04/2004 8:55:14 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Refuse to allow anyone who could only get a government job tell you how to run your life.)
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To: SunkenCiv; burrian

GGG Ping.


4 posted on 08/04/2004 8:55:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: asgardshill
"Did Amazon archers really cut off one of their breasts to facilitate the use of their weapons? In the spirit of "everything you know is wrong", I'd really like to know if this was ever documented."

Don't know. The only thing I know about Amazons it that the river in South America was named such because the Spanish claimed to have seen women warriors lining the banks when they toured the area.

5 posted on 08/04/2004 8:59:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: asgardshill

Don't know either but clearly that long ago strong women took charge when the men were dead from wars and disease.Doesn't sound like pampered wenches we see now but the great walk amongst us.


6 posted on 08/04/2004 9:20:34 PM PDT by noodler
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To: noodler

The women who stay at home and raise the kids/clean up the dog's mess/work to bring money into the family while Dad's away serving his country have always held my awe and respect.


7 posted on 08/04/2004 9:24:18 PM PDT by asgardshill ("Jack Black - killing brain cells and making friends UNTIL 2004")
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To: blam

The show was fascinating. In a kurgan in the Russian steppes, the archaeologists found a 2500 yr old burial of a woman likely mortally injured in combat. Her apparel matched exactly Herodotus' description of the Amazons, and she was buried with spiritual items and weapons.

Then they drove deep into the backwaters of the Russian steppes and found a modern nomad child with blond hair and very European features whose DNA matched closely the DNA extracted from the Amazon burial. And the villagers still used recurve bows and the tall coned hats of the Amazons.
This is just further support that proto-Europeans penetrated the Steppes and shaped the cultures there. In the larger context of the rise of civilization, it certainly seems to support that as the agricultural societies arose, entire clans of nomadic European people fled to the peripheries of the civilized world. We can only speculate as to their motives in doing so.


8 posted on 08/04/2004 9:37:02 PM PDT by burrian
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To: burrian

It was indeed, very interesting. The patterns on the clothes and other cloth items matched closely as well. The nomads of remote Mongolia appear to have mingled with and descended from these legendary Amazons.


9 posted on 08/04/2004 9:42:06 PM PDT by ODC-GIRL (Proudly serving our Nation's Homeland Defense)
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To: ODC-GIRL

Plus, that little blond girl was adorable.

She really seemed to be sopping it all up. She must have always known she was special, and then all the scientists descend on her village in the middle of nowhere and tell her she is descended from legendary warrior princesses!

I hope that village tells the tale for many years.


10 posted on 08/04/2004 9:49:40 PM PDT by burrian
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To: burrian

I imagine it was a very exciting thing for them. What satisfaction that Doctor must have felt after her 20 years of research.

The girl was wonderful, and very skilled on her horse. The western clothes (hair scrunchies) cracked me up!


11 posted on 08/04/2004 9:52:54 PM PDT by ODC-GIRL (Proudly serving our Nation's Homeland Defense)
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To: blam; asgardshill; noodler; burrian
Thanks blam. FWIW, other possibilities are the Cimmerians, who destroyed Gordion in the 7th century BC (Phrygia was reportedly attacked by the Amazons; the Cimmerians were wiped out shortly thereafter by the Scythians and everyone already in the area), and the "Hittites", who wore skirts (or kilts, if you will). In an ancient bas relief of "Amazons", it appears to be skirted warriors wearing "Hittite" style helmets.
The Synchronized Chronology: Rethinking Middle East Antiquity The Synchronized Chronology:
Rethinking Middle East Antiquity

by Roger Henry

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12 posted on 08/04/2004 9:58:11 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: burrian

Well she was an oddity and don't think she didn't feel it for you could see it in her eyes.It was a very interesting program.She was closely featured yet and retained the DNA required for this to go through.I'm not really in the position so say history repeats or remove emphasis from the original post.........but something will be said about a cagillion horny chinese chinese soldiers and women in America who don't know what to do with themselves.All they have to do is get rid of the Men.


13 posted on 08/04/2004 10:11:30 PM PDT by noodler
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To: All
Probably my favorite book:
The History (Book IV) Melpomene
by Herodotus
440 B.C.
Translated by George Rawlinson
the discussion of the Amazons is found in "Melpomene".

14 posted on 08/04/2004 10:21:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam

It's been a long time since I've been as excited as I was last night watching that show. Naturally, I thought of you and the red headed mummies. :0)

I really liked that female archaeologist, too. She was great. A real people person. I think that's one secret of her success.


15 posted on 08/05/2004 2:31:59 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (I am not paranoid. I have "rational fear".)
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To: JudyB1938; burrian
"It's been a long time since I've been as excited as I was last night watching that show. Naturally, I thought of you and the red headed mummies. :0)

I hate that I missed it. I might add that some of the 4,000 year old mummies in and around the Tarim Basin had the tall cone shaped (felt) hats. One of the mummies was named Woman With Ten Hats. Some of the hats were strange in that they had a double peak in the cone.

16 posted on 08/05/2004 3:26:45 PM PDT by blam
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To: Hank Rearden; noodler
You'd think, wouldn't ya?

Yo, Noodler, please allow me to introduce myself. I'm no pampered wench.
17 posted on 08/05/2004 3:27:32 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I love this job more than I love taffy, and I'm a man who loves his taffy.)
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To: SunkenCiv
Every time I hear the word "Hittites," I think of Bill Murray and Sigourney Weaver reading Tobin's Spirit Guide in Ghostbusters.
18 posted on 08/05/2004 3:28:30 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I love this job more than I love taffy, and I'm a man who loves his taffy.)
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To: blam

You would have LOVED it, I guarantee it. I wish I could see it again. That is one of the very few that I could watch over and over again. There's too much info to absorb in just one viewing.

What made it the most interesting to me is the fact that I believe there is definitely a link to "your" mummies. I wish they'd do comparison DNA with them, too. That explanation would make the most sense of what Caucasion people were doing up in that part of the world.

That little blond headed girl was so cute. Her impish grin was precious. And at the end when they showed her flying through the wind on that horse, you could see the regal pride in her. I wish somebody would see to her education.


19 posted on 08/05/2004 4:10:46 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (I am not paranoid. I have "rational fear".)
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To: Xenalyte

BTW, I thought of YOU, too, as I was watching that program. Maybe we should do a DNA on you, along with the rest of them. :0)


20 posted on 08/05/2004 4:12:58 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (I am not paranoid. I have "rational fear".)
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To: JudyB1938

It would disappoint . . . I'm mostly Irish, with bits of Scottish and Welsh, or so I'm led to understand. No Sarmatian in me that I'm aware of. :)


21 posted on 08/05/2004 4:15:07 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I love this job more than I love taffy, and I'm a man who loves his taffy.)
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To: Xenalyte

Yeah, but maybe the Sarmatians are just a wee bit Irish. :0)


22 posted on 08/05/2004 4:37:38 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (I am not paranoid. I have "rational fear".)
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To: blam; JudyB1938; Xenalyte; All

Yes, I was almost screaming at my TV when they described some of the things about the Samartians because I was so moved that this might have a connection to the red-haired mummies and many of the other things that draw a much larger picture.

Another of the intense moments was when they were discussing the Illiad. In the Illiad, the Amazons are mentioned as being at Troy. Achilles fought the head Amazon and killed her, but as she lay dying and he removed her helmet, he fell madly and tragically in love with her. But after relating this story, they pretty much dismissed that the Illiad had any historical value and moved on.

However, we know that the Illiad was not all fiction! The Illiad was based on a very old tale, and the Amazons were part of the story. Throughout many of the ancient accounts, this race of nomadic people is mentioned in different contexts. It is possible that the same people who went to the Steppes went to the British Isles and, who knows, maybe America. There certainly seems to be alot to tie these groups together culturally and genetically and throughout an impressive span of thousands of years of practicing their primeval religion and lifestyle.


23 posted on 08/05/2004 9:15:38 PM PDT by burrian
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To: Xenalyte
"Gozer the traveller. He will come in one of the prechosen forms. During the rectification of the Voldrani, the traveller came as a large and moving Torg! Then during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick (sp?) supplicants, they chose a new form for him; that of a giant Slor! Many shubs and shules knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of a Slor that day, I can tell you!"
I about pee my pants at that point in the script, despite the age of the movie and the number of times I've seen it. :')

24 posted on 08/05/2004 10:31:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam
Here is


my favorite Amazon...

25 posted on 08/05/2004 10:41:21 PM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: burrian; blam

I wish the bunch of us had been together and watched that documentary together. Now THAT would have been even more fun!

I still haven't "recovered" from it.

As you said, burrian, the implications for a much wider picture is sure there! One that Blam introduced many of us to.


26 posted on 08/06/2004 6:39:10 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (I am not paranoid. I have "rational fear".)
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bttt with a few related GGG / FR topics:

The Argonaut Epos and Bronze Age Economic History
Economics Department, City College of New York
Revised May 14, 1999 | Morris Silver
Posted on 08/25/2004 10:30:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1199756/posts

Arzawa
The House of David (not the vanished religious sect by that name)
circa 2002 by David R Ross
Posted on 11/26/2004 7:32:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1289143/posts

Inscription in Carian and Greek
Anistoriton ^ | 27 Dec. 1997 | (editors)
Posted on 07/17/2004 6:20:07 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1173453/posts?page=10#10

Non-Attic Characters
University of California, Irvine, Thesaurus Linguae Graecae
September 7 2003 (rev 9-28-2003) | Nick Nicholas
Posted on 07/18/2004 6:43:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1173901/posts

Quarry, Setting and Team Marks: The Carian Connection
University of Leiden (Netherlands) ^ | 1998 | (about) Sheldon Lee Gosline
Posted on 10/08/2004 3:20:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/1239452/posts

So Who Is Buried in Midas's Tomb?
NYT ^ | 12/25/2001 | JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Posted on 12/24/2001 10:12:01 PM PST by a_Turk
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/596541/posts

The Truth About An Epic Tale Of Love, War And Greed (Troy)
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 3-24-2004
Posted on 03/25/2004 12:03:11 PM PST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1105131/posts

Was There a Trojan War?
Archaeology ^ | May/June 2004 | Manfred Korfmann
Posted on 07/29/2004 11:43:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1181498/posts?page=3#3


27 posted on 12/19/2004 5:49:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: Chani

ping


28 posted on 12/22/2004 11:12:21 PM PST by Chani (bookmark girl)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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29 posted on 06/15/2006 9:21:56 AM PDT by SunkenCiv ("A father is a man who expects his son to be as good a man as he meant to be." -- Frank A. Clark)
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To: blam
GGG Ping.

Giggety Giggety Giggety PING!

30 posted on 07/28/2008 10:09:44 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (BARACK OBAMA WILL SAVE US! HE HAS RISEN!!)
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To: blam

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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31 posted on 11/04/2009 5:31:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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