Why the Roman Catholic Arguments for the Canon are Spurious

Christian Truth ^ | Unknown | William Webster

[GreyFriar]

Without including the Didache, both lists are bogus!

[metmom]

Ping

[Salvation]

Note the source -- not the Catholic truth.

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther

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[metmom]

Well, why don’t you start a thread on it?

[metmom]

Answer a simple question.

It’s a yes or no question.

Did the Catholic church recognize the Apocrypha as Scripture, as canon, before the Council of Trent?

[.45 Long Colt]

I’m guessing at least a ten link answer.

[metmom]

Probably.

[elcid1970]

This mackerel snapper doesn’t give a rip what some snake handler thinks.

Long live the Pope!

[metmom]

Do have anything of more substance than name calling to contest the premise of the article?

Like some facts to refute it?

[Petrosius]

Did the Catholic church recognize the Apocrypha as Scripture, as canon, before the Council of Trent?

The simple answer is yes. The decree from the Council of Trent which often referenced in the attempt to show that the Catholic Church only accepted the Deuterocanonical (known as the Apocrypha by Protestants) books in the 16th century was, as the council stated, done only "lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind." This was not a new teaching by the Church. Again, as the council stated the list was "as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition." This ancient usage is confirmed by both their inclusion in approved editions of the Bible and in the readings used at the Mass.

There is often a misunderstanding of the infallible Magisterium of the Church. It includes the universal day to day teaching of the Church, the ordinary Magisterium, as well as the explicit decrees of either popes or councils, the extraordinary Magisterium. The latter only arises when there is a doubt or controversy about the former. When such does occur either pope or council are not free to decide de novo what is the truth but seek to proclaim what the Church as always and everywhere taught.

Again, to answer your question, despite the doubts of certain individuals, the Church through her ordinary Magisterium has since ancient times accepted the Deuterocanonical books as Scripture.

[yldstrk]

I totally agree, like the priest said the other day, oh never mind

[elcid1970]

See post #11. Meanwhile, I’m tired of Protestants bad-mouthing the Catholic Church although it doesn’t bother me because I personally don’t give a rip and I’ve heard it for more than sixty years of my existence and the condemners of Holy Mother Church can go sing the Roll is Called Up Yonder until the cows come home.

There are some lovely Protestant hymns which this Romanist/Papist enjoys singing but right now isn’t the right time so tell Martin Luther to go hit the salad bar just look at his 16th Century images & I’m German too.

[NKP_Vet]

YAWN.

[Revolting cat!]

[Revolting cat!]

[Revolting cat!]

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“The simple answer is yes.”

---

That simply isn’t true, as all the facts in the article show. You might wish it were true. Roman revisionist history might want you to think it’s true. But it simply isn’t.

[Campion]

Did the Catholic church recognize the Apocrypha as Scripture, as canon, before the Council of Trent?

Of course. The reunion council of Florence, which the West considers ecumenical, promulgated the same canon as Trent more than a century earlier. The Gutenburg Bible contained the Tridentine canon when it was published in 1454. I can provide you with more examples, but you asked specifically in re Trent.

It should be noted that the Greeks accept all of the books in the Catholic OT (and sometimes a few more). The schism between the Greeks and the Latins occurred in 1054, long before Trent.

Webster is good at spin. You notice he just asserts what a lot of his sources say, rather than giving you quotes and context.

Here's the relevant text from Florence:

It [the Church] professes that one and the same God is the author of the old and the new Testament — that is, the law and the prophets, and the gospel — since the saints of both testaments spoke under the inspiration of the same Spirit. It accepts and venerates their books, whose titles are as follows.

Five books of Moses, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, Esdras, Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Job, Psalms of David, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, namely Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi; two books of the Maccabees; the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; fourteen letters of Paul, to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, two to the Thessalonians, to the Colossians, two to Timothy, to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two letters of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; Acts of the Apostles; Apocalypse of John.

("Paralipomenon" is Chronicles; "Ecclesiasticus" is Sirach.)

[Campion]

That simply isn’t true,

The Protestant scholar JND Kelly runs tight little rings around Webster as a scholar, and he disagrees with you.

Besides, I posted the canon list of Florence immediately above. There's an actual "fact" for you, as distinct from Webster's voluminous distortions.

I would like to hear your opinion on why the Armenians (split from Rome 453) and the Ethiopians (split in 453, but practically contact was severed earlier and not restored until modern times), and the Greeks (split from Rome in 1054) ALL accept ALL of the books in the Catholic Bible as canonical (as well as some others).

Here is a nice chart that lays it all out in one place.