Why is Glenn Beck wrong to support abortion in cases of rape, incest? In short: me.

http://www.lifesitenews.com ^ | February 14, 2014 | Monica Kelsey

[NKP_Vet]

Feb. 14, 2014 (MonicaKelsey) - When someone says, "I am pro-life except in the case of rape or incest," they are using an oxymoron to describe themselves. This is in essence describing themselves as pro-choice and shows they have a lack of understanding of what being pro-life is truly about. Glenn Beck, who my husband listens to almost daily, is a good example of someone who is highly intelligent, but lacks the understanding of what it means to be pro-life with no exceptions. Let me explain.

First of all, let me tell you about who I am. I am a medic and a firefighter from Indiana. Four years ago at the age of 37 I reconnected with my birth mother, who placed me for adoption at birth. The information she entrusted me with the day we reconnected has changed the course of my life forever.

My birth mother was brutally raped at 17 and as a result became pregnant with me. But in 1972 my life was protected by a law that said that my life had value. And even though the law was in place, protecting me, my birth-mother succumbed to the pressure of carrying a child conceived out of rape and found herself at a back alley abortion clinic at the advice of her mother.

While standing in front of the man who was going to take my life, my birth mother changed her mind. She left this clinic and never looked back. Her mother hid her from the outside world. She gave birth to me and never even looked at me. But she gave me the greatest gift I have ever received, on top of my life. She gave me an amazing family. And for that I will forever be grateful.

[Arthur McGowan]

If an act is MURDER, that is sufficient reason to prohibit it.

Murder is always wrong, always evil, always an injustice. Nobody needs to provide you any additional “reason” that murder must be illegal, and punished proportionately.

If you accept that some people should have the freedom to kill some babies, you are pro-abortion. Nobody is throwing that term around loosely.

And if you think that some private citizens ought to have the freedom to kill other innocent people, then you are not a member of Western Civilization. At some point, civilization just didn’t take.

[chris37]

You don’t need to provide me any additional anything.

I don’t have the power to implement or not implement law.

You are going to need to provide the nation’s people are reason why raped women should be forced to bear the children of rapists without being given the opportunity to make that decision themselves.

And I don’t think that is something you can sell.

You certainly haven’t been able to sell it so far. Not even close.

And candidates that are of this mind are not very articulate on the subject and are soundly defeated. So, don’t see it happening.

Furthermore, in this world, killing happens.

Murder happens.

State sponsored murder happens. This looks like an instance of state sponsored murder to me. Tell me if I’m wrong about that, but that’s what I think it is.

So the state says this is okay. Maybe the state will have to answer to God for that, but who knows for 100% certain if they will have to answer or not?

I believe that they will, but the fact of the matter is that is a belief. I don’t know for certain.

What I believe is that the crime of rape begins with denying a woman’s right to consent, and we do not undo that by further denying her right to consent.

We give her that right that was denied to her by the rapist. It then becomes her decision. It is her weight to bear, one way or the other, and it always was as soon as it happened to her.

Hopefully she makes the right decision, but it is certainly possible that she may not.

And really, I don’t see that changing, but I’m sure you disagree, which is fine.

[Arthur McGowan]

The very idea that “it’s the law, and you can’t do anything to change it” IS the pro-abortion position.

Since YOUR position IS the pro-abortion position, you can see why so many people have told you you are pro-abortion.

[chris37]

I’m just telling you what reality is.

Why don’t you tell me how you are going to change it?

Why don’t you tell me how you are going force raped women to bear the children of the men who raped them, because I’d love to hear it.

Tell me how your are going to convince those of us who disagree with you to agree with you.

[Syncro]

What have I said that makes you think I would want or recommend that any of them have an abortion, or any one else for that matter.

I was just giving you some facts because you seem to think that abortion is OK in the case of rape.

You have made that pretty clear.

It's still murder of an unborn child who is innocent.

[Syncro]

"No, the Muslims trace their lineage to Abraham, they worship a different "God."

Ground control to major tom. All Christians trace their lineage to Abraham.

Earth to subject avoider.

Yes we do, but we don't change God into something He isn't as the Muslims do.

Christians do NOT worship the Muslim God Allah.

The pope is wrong thinking Christians have the same God that Islam has.

[Syncro]

There is nothing that I said, and nothing the Catholic Church teaches, that implies that unbaptized babies go to Hell.

Well, good.

Then a baby in fragile health and in danger of death does not need to be baptized (Catholic word for infant dedication in this case) to make sure it goes to heaven, good again.

I didn't know if you understood that as it seemed to be a life of death thing, getting the baby "baptized."

It's been a few days, so here is your quote I was responding to

Babies in hospitals who are in fragile health are baptized every day by non-Catholics and non-Christians if they are in danger of death.

...as though you have trapped me making preposterous assertions, is what I call “bashing.”

Sorry didn't mean to "trap" you but it is preposterous to call anything other then how Jesus illustrated to us what baptizing actually is, can't do that "to" infants. They will understand what baptism is as they grow older and then can do it the way Jesus taught, and actually did.

[Arthur McGowan]

No. Catholics will continue to baptize infants, as the apostles did, because Baptism means a great deal more than “keeping the baby from going to Hell.”

Baptism makes the baptizand a member of the Church, which is the body of Christ.

Baptism causes the indwelling of the Trinity.

Baptism gives the baptizand the three Theological Virtues: Faith, Hope and Charity—the last of which is the very form of God. I.e., Baptism transforms the baptized into a new kind of creature, one whose nature participates in the very nature of God—a process that is furthered by reception of the Eucharist.

[chris37]

No, what I have said, at least 20 times in this thread, is that giving the victim the opportunity to consent that was denied her by the rapist is what is OK.

I have never said that abortion is OK. What is not OK is forcing a rape victim to bear the child of the rapist.

If the victim chooses to abort the child, then that decision is hers to bear, but it IS her choice to make, and I don't see that changing at all. If the victim decides to bear the child and then adopt it out, that is her decision to make, and I don't see that changing at all. If the victim decides to bear the child and raise it, that is her decision to make, and I don't see that changing at all.

Really, it's her decision to make, and whatever she decides is the outcome, and you're not going to take that power away from her no matter how much you may want to.

Best you can do is hope to influence that decision in a positive manner, which is what I have accurately stated all along. It's not my fault you and most others her cannot recognize or accept simple reality.

I have bolded these things, because really I'm tired of saying the same things over and over to people who appear incapable of understanding simple English.

I have never once said that I am for dead babies, really, try to get that through your skull. Are dead babies going to happen? Yeah, doesn't mean I'm for it though.

Much as you try to paint gray over with black and white, gray still remains, period.

[Syncro]

...giving the victim the opportunity to consent that was denied her by the rapist is what is OK.

The consent that is needed is the consent of the baby to be killed. To prevent the "silent scream."

Being as the baby can't advocate for his/herself millions of Pro Life people do it.

Murdering the innocent to appease the victim of the crime of rape is murder period.

She should be given the consent to kill the rapist instead of her unborn innocent kid.

Ethyl Waters is grateful her white mother didn't kill her in the womb because she was raped (while she was a teenager) by a black man.

The absence of the shame and guilt felt by the majority of those that aborted their children would be a great reward for this mother to be if she was "forced" to give birth to her child.

There is a great chance she would be grateful in the future for that "forced" life saving action.

Most women are conned into thinking their baby in the womb is just a mass of cells, not a human. They are lied to so the abortion industry can make their billions. Yes, it is a multi BILLION dollar business.

Really, it's her decision to make...

Better it would be to give her permission to kill the criminal rapist instead of maybe a future Beethoven or Waters.

Oh but that would be murder, right?

It's not my fault you and most others her cannot recognize or accept simple reality.

The reality is that killing a baby in the womb is murder. That is the most important "reality" in this situation.

I have never once said that I am for dead babies, really, try to get that through your skull. [Speaking of a skull, you are aware that a woman can get an abortion at nine months by allowing a "health care worker" to stick sissors in the baby's skull and suck the brain out aren't you?] Are dead babies going to happen? Yeah, doesn't mean I'm for it though.

No, but you appear to be just fine with enabling it, just the same if someone gave you a gun and asked you to kill an innocent person. That someone would be just as guilty of murder as you if you did as asked according to our laws.

[chris37]

it was the woman’s choice to consent to having a baby before a baby was even conceived to begin with.

That was always her right to say yes or no, so the baby cannot advocate for itself then either, because it does not yet exist.

That consent was denied by the rapist, and that denial of consent is a crime.

The fact that there are women who have indeed chosen to bear the children of rape is proof positive that giving the woman her right to consent does NOT result in automatic abortion.

The course of action they take is up to them, if they choose to murder the baby that that is what they choose.

I have never said that abortion isn’t murder, I do believe that it is. I would also be fine with given them the option to kill the rapist.

Killing happens in this world. In fact, I’d say killing is common. Doesn’t make it right, but killing is a fact of this world.

And yes I am aware scissors being stuck into skulls, and I am not for that or any late term abortion under any circumstance, not even rape or incest.

As another poster asked me to clarify earlier in this thread, if murder is to be done, then it needs to be done early.

And as per your example of being given a gun and killing an innocent person, then the gun giver also being guilty, yes that’s true, but what’s also true is that abortion isn’t viewed the same way legally as a gun crime is, and that is another reality of this world I do not see changing.

Doesn’t make abortion right, and it also doesn’t make abortion not exist anymore either, and just because it’s legal in this world doesn’t mean that people won’t answer for it in the next.

What I have sought to illustrate in this thread, quite simply, is what reality is, and that it isn’t likely to change, in fact it’s likely that it will not change, and I have further stated that I am not for forcing raped women to bear those children, I’m also not for pushing them to abort them either.

So yeah, grey area indeed.

[Syncro]

You have completely erased the "grey" area

And yes I am aware scissors being stuck into skulls, and I am not for that or any late term abortion under any circumstance, not even rape or incest.

Yet you condone, if the mother wishes to, abortion for a 10 week old (from conception) who can feel pain and will back away from the abortionists killing tool as it comes into his/her safe warm place in the mother's womb.

So it should be the mother's choice to have her baby burned or vacuumed to death or chopped into little pieces, all the while feeling the pain of being killed until it's little life is snuffed out completely?

Yeah, that late term abortion stuff is much worse...both MURDER and torture of the most innocent and vulnerable of humans.

You are either completely for or completely against abortion of any kind, make up your mind.

[chris37]

I did make up my mind.

I have no choice but to condone it, because I can’t condone forcing her to bear the child of the man who raped her.

I really can’t condone that at all.

That really isn’t anything for anyone to decide save the person whom it was done to.

I can condone talking to her and asking her to consider what the right choice to make is, but I’m certainly not going to tell her bear the child or go to jail.

Sorry, can’t.

[ansel12]

Here is a good thread for you to explain more of your thinking, on abortion exceptions.

I Don’t Make Deals
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3298769/posts

[chris37]

[ansel12]

So you are pro-abortion, but can’t defend it.

That figures.

[Salvation]

Can you tell the difference?

[Salvation]

What a message!

[chris37]

[NKP_Vet]

Romney and Beck tout the official Morman line on abortion. It’s OK to murder the baby for the sins of the father, as in rape and incest, and also if the mother’s life is in danger. Harry Reid, who I certainly wouldn’t call a “devout” Morman but a devout liberal democrat believes what his liberal democrat party believes, abortion on demand. And if he says he doesn’t he’s a liar. He’s a voting member of the pro-abortion party and supports 100% the most radical pro-abortion president in American history.