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Split Between English and Scots Older Than Thought
Scottish Press Association ^ | Sun 11 Apr 2004 | Louise Gray

Posted on 07/18/2004 7:05:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

Traditionally the difference between the English and Scots, Welsh, Irish and Cornish was attributed to the foreign influence of invading forces such as the Anglo-Saxons, Celts and Vikings settling in different areas of Britain hundreds of years ago. But Professor Stephen Oppenheimer of Oxford University, believes the difference originates much further back in history... The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe, while the English are more closely related to the Germanic peoples of the interior. As evidence he cites genetic data showing the Celts are more closely related to the Basque people of south west France and the Celts of Brittany and Spain, while the English are closer to the Germans descended from the Anglo Saxons... said Britons are descended from the original settlers, rather than later invasions, and as such were already split by the western divide.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.scotsman.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: archaeology; basques; britons; celts; dna; english; genealogy; genetic; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; ireland; saxons; scotland; scotlandyet; scots; unitedkingdom; vikings; wales; welsh; worldhistory
Could have sworn I'd seen this on FR. Oh well...
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1 posted on 07/18/2004 7:05:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv

The Vikings are left out here, but then the Normans were Vikings too.


2 posted on 07/18/2004 7:09:14 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie

Bump for later


3 posted on 07/18/2004 7:10:25 PM PDT by cajungirl (wi)
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To: *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; JLO; Johnny Gage; ThanhPhero; blam; FairOpinion; farmfriend; ...
Instead of a GGG ping for now, just the managers, plus three folks who posted in the "Ancient Germans weren't so fair" who are not on the GGG list. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list
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4 posted on 07/18/2004 7:11:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: Torie
Yup, and Hrolf the Ganger (founder of the House of Normandy) was also progenitor of a short-lived royal house that ruled a kingdom in Sicily.
5 posted on 07/18/2004 7:13:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: Torie
The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe...

I see the professors are still teaching 'theory' ...as fact (when it suits their agenda ...which is to legitimize their existence).

6 posted on 07/18/2004 7:17:33 PM PDT by Luke (u)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping, please.


7 posted on 07/18/2004 7:17:52 PM PDT by wizr
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To: SunkenCiv; blam
The professor of clinical sociomedical sciences at Oxford University said the Celts of Western Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall are descended from an ancient people living on the Atlantic coast while Britain was still attached to mainland Europe, while the English are more closely related to the Germanic peoples of the interior. As evidence he cites genetic data showing the Celts are more closely related to the Basque people of south west France and the Celts of Brittany and Spain, while the English are closer to the Germans descended from the Anglo Saxons... said Britons are descended from the original settlers, rather than later invasions, and as such were already split by the western divide.

Well, if doesn't make perfect sense, I don't what does. Thank you, Dr. Oppenheimer.

8 posted on 07/18/2004 7:22:14 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones

How is this news? This was what I had always read in the books...


9 posted on 07/18/2004 7:39:21 PM PDT by MegaSilver
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To: xJones; ValerieUSA
Like a lot of English folks, he repudiates migration as playing a role in the genealogy of peoples -- and he lives on one of the most invaded places on Earth. Ultimately, I think it's just another English repudiation of the Celtic roots of Britain. As one wag wrote of a similar piece of work, eventually the trend of British scholarship on origins will posit the evolution of British ancestors from indigenous reindeer.
10 posted on 07/18/2004 7:54:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv

bump


11 posted on 07/18/2004 7:59:35 PM PDT by VOA
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To: SunkenCiv

Genealogists will tell you that all descendants of Europe have nobility in their family trees. Meaning, of course, that over 1000 years, so many generations have occurred that there is no such thing as a pure Celt or Anglo-saxon or German, or Dane, or even a pure peasant, etc.. I am surprised that this can be classified as news. It is all theory, and also "water over the dam." Migration of armies, peoples, etc. eventually results in lots of intermarrying. We are all mongrels in a way.


12 posted on 07/18/2004 8:01:32 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: SunkenCiv
Ultimately, I think it's just another English repudiation of the Celtic roots of Britain.

Actually, this is just laying more of the legal defense against my lawsuit
charging the English with oppressing my Welsh forbearors and persuading them
to immigrate to a land of plenty and freedom.

Wait...maybe I'll end up owing the Brits some cash...

(end jocularity)
13 posted on 07/18/2004 8:01:55 PM PDT by VOA
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To: MadIvan

Ping


14 posted on 07/18/2004 8:04:11 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: VOA
Heh... as a mongrel, I guess I owe myself money...
15 posted on 07/18/2004 8:23:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: VOA

since i am part british, part viking, part german, part irish, and part scottish, i am suing myself for thousands of years of oppression!


16 posted on 07/18/2004 8:24:07 PM PDT by drhogan
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To: SunkenCiv
Dad always told us we were Scotch-Irish. I happen to read a while back all that meant is we were Protestant Irish, but we were Irish. The designation was to separate us from Irish Catholics.

Did I receive accurate information?
17 posted on 07/18/2004 8:30:05 PM PDT by dix (Remember the Alamo, and God bless Texas)
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To: dix

Scots-Irish are Lowland Scots (Lallans) that settled in Northern Ireland.


18 posted on 07/18/2004 8:34:13 PM PDT by stands2reason (Kerry/Edwards: TERRORISTS FLEE FROM BETTER HAIR!!!)
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To: SunkenCiv
"Could have sworn I'd seen this on FR. Oh well... "

You did

Here.

19 posted on 07/18/2004 8:39:55 PM PDT by blam
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To: dix

Your information is accurate, except your ancestors were imported from Scotland to pacify the Catholic insurrection on the emerald isle. Scot Irish were highly favored immigrants to America, because they were known to be rugged, and facile with the gun, and not too interested in abstractions, and thus were deemed ideal as frontiersmen to pacify the Indians just as they had pacified the Catholic Irish. And that proved to be the case. President Jackson and George Wallace are two prominant Scot Irish American politicians. Perhaps 40 million Americans have some Scot Irish blood as a wild guess. Of course, the clan has been rather totally assimilated at this point. Oh the horror.


20 posted on 07/18/2004 8:42:11 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie

Hilbillies are Scot Irish - you can hear it in the music.


21 posted on 07/18/2004 8:48:40 PM PDT by frithguild ("W" is the Black Ice President - underestimated until the left completely loses traction.)
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To: blam
60,000 threads ago... so, last week... ;')
22 posted on 07/18/2004 9:14:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: dix
Could be, but also some folks really are Scottish and Irish in origin. In part anyway. I've got that. :')
23 posted on 07/18/2004 9:16:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: SunkenCiv
professor of clinical sociomedical sciences

That is the perfect job for a liberal.

Not just your typical street liberal, but one who works at it 24/7.

24 posted on 07/19/2004 4:24:26 AM PDT by capt. norm (Rap is to music what the Etch-A-Sketch is to art.)
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To: SunkenCiv

How does the professor explain the pre-Celic inhabitants of the British Isles and how they came to be dispossed? The Picts gave up their land voluntarily? Irish history/folklore records the wars the Gaels waged to conquer Ireland from the people who lived there before them.


25 posted on 07/19/2004 4:42:43 AM PDT by Pilsner
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To: Khurkris

"Make way for Willie!"
26 posted on 07/19/2004 9:33:14 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: frithguild

ay what?...lets shew some propa respect there sonny boy...We Scotts originated the pipes and the high lonesome sound oer the highlands and the moors.

27 posted on 07/19/2004 4:48:28 PM PDT by Khurkris (Proud Scottish/HillBilly - We perfected "The Art of the Grudge")
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To: Hoplite

Thanks for the Scotts ping.


28 posted on 07/19/2004 4:50:13 PM PDT by Khurkris (Proud Scottish/HillBilly - We perfected "The Art of the Grudge")
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To: Pilsner
Yeah, kinda foolish, eh? "The Book of Invasions" (if memory serves, may have been a different work or works) gives kinda weird cultural details of the various successive people who arrived, and at least some of those were confirmed by archaeology.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

29 posted on 07/19/2004 11:21:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: Torie

I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm sure Bush is to blame for something here. He is a divider, not a uniter or so Kerry claims.


30 posted on 07/20/2004 12:30:09 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Kerry/Edwards. A pig in a dress is still a pig.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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31 posted on 01/24/2006 10:40:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (In the long run, there is only the short run.)
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32 posted on 03/26/2011 5:32:25 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: dix

Yes, hence the term Orange Irish, as opposed to Green Irish (catholic) Northern Ireland was termed the Irish plantation. Great book on this titled *Born Fighting* by James Webb.


33 posted on 10/05/2013 10:34:44 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (A pox on the House of Apple and the ios7 horse they rode in on.)
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To: SunkenCiv

The trouble with Scotland....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LusNuhPXc


34 posted on 10/05/2013 10:51:13 PM PDT by TheCause ("that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States")
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