Mother of God of Jerusalem
Post an open thread honoring the Mother of God and watch who comes out.
Posted on 01/09/2012 10:38:02 PM PST by rzman21
“Mother of Christ”...?
Straight from the source, excellent post. Thanks.
I’m not aware of any organized body that fully agrees with Nestorius—since he was condemned as a heretic by the unified Church (East and West) during his lifetime. This was because he denied a union between God’s eternal nature and Jesus’ human nature was possible—as shown here. Logically then Jesus would have to be two persons, not one, God the eternal Son being one, Jesus the man being another. This deconstructs Jesus, making His human nature not simultaneously divine. This is not orthodoxy—and gave birth to a group called the Nestorians.
What is your point?
I thought it was an interesting article - a bit confusing but interesting. But don’t agree with it. Also wondering why you thought it warranted its own thread, rather than just keeping it in the thread you posted it to 10 minutes ago?
What sith the Scriptures?
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” (John 1:1-2)
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotton of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)
“And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconcilation. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconcilation.” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19)
“But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were made under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.” (Galatians 4:4-5)
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake to unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High;”
We could sum it all up with: “He that gets the Son gets it all!”
“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and He that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” (1 John 5:11-12)
Nestorius publicly challenged the long-used title Theotokos (Bringer forth of God) for the Virgin Mary. He suggested that the title denied Christ's full humanity, arguing instead that Jesus had two natures, the divine Logos and the human Jesus. As such he proposed Christotokos (Bringer forth of Christ) as a more suitable title for Mary.
This would be similar to the philosophies propounded by iscool or Uri'el.
and we see a lot of these views pushed on FreeRepublic...
Post an open thread honoring the Mother of God and watch who comes out.
So that would make iscool and Uri’el semi-Nestorians?
it depends, most would say “have no clue, just irrationally hate orthodoxy”
Ten thousand other expressions witness to the human race that they should not think that it was the godhead of the Son that was recently killed but the flesh which was joined to the nature of the godhead. (Hence also Christ calls himself the lord and son of David: “ ‘What do you think of the Christ ? Whose son is he ?’ They said to him, ‘The son of David.’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘How is it then that David inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying, “The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand”?’”. He said this as being indeed son of David according to the flesh, but his Lord according to his godhead.) The body therefore is the temple of the deity of the Son, a temple which is united to it in a high and divine conjunction, so that the divine nature accepts what belongs to the body as its own.
First off, it makes absolutely no difference what a person thinks or believes about it...It doesn't affect a person's salvation one way or the other...
But yes, I believe Nestorius' position is the biblical one...
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
'Form' can be translated as nature...Verse 6 says Jesus had the nature of God while verse 7 says Jesus also had the nature of a servant and ultimately, the flesh...
But regardless, are you contending as Nestorius accused that the God-head died??? Is the God-head separable enough that one part of it can die???
I don't think so...But one thing is for sure and that is that Jesus had a human, corrupt body in the flesh...It could die obviously...It could and did age with time...
THAT body died...And then it was changed...It apparently was still a physical body to a degree, or when called upon to be a physical body, it certainly isn't the old corruptible flesh that Jesus was born with...
Whatever the physical Jesus was before he died is not at all the same physical Jesus that resurrected...
But I am satisfied that Nestorius had a good understanding of the scriptures when he wrote on the subject...Jesus temporarily had a human body and it was supernaturally somehow joined to the divinity of the God-head...I don't need to know how or why...
Yet he was condemmed as being a heretic.
Iscool: Whatever the physical Jesus was before he died is not at all the same physical Jesus that resurrected.
ok, thank you for sharing your views.
Nestorius on Mary as the Mother of God (Ecumenical)
The Day Nestorius Rocked the Church and an Empire
How Quickly Catholic Heresy Took Over the Church (Immediately)
Hilaire Belloc’s “The Great Heresies” now available in EPUB format
Chapter 6: The Modern Phase [The Great Heresies]
Chapter 5: What Was The Reformation? [The Great Heresies]
Chapter 4: The Albigensian Attack [The Great Heresies]
Chapter 3: The Great and Enduring Heresy of Mohammed [The Great Heresies]
Chapter 2: The Arian Heresy [The Great Heresies
Chapter 1: Scheme Of This Book [The Great Heresies]
Introduction: Heresy [The Great Heresies]
The Great Heresies
John Calvin’s Worst Heresy: That Christ Suffered in Hell
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Succumbs to Heresy
The Bishop Discovers Heresy?
From Orthodox to Heresy: The Secularizing of Catholic Universities
Progressivism/Liberalism is Heresy [Excellent read & reference]
Is heresy better than schism? [Ecumenical]
Modernism: The Modernist Heresy
THE GREAT HERESIES-THE MODERN PHASE
The Protestant Heresy
The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene
Americanism, Then and Now: Our Pet Heresy (encyclical of Pope Leo XIII)
Heresies then and now: ancient Christian heresies practiced in modern times
The Plain Truth About The Baptist Bride Heresy
Balthasar, Hell, and Heresy: An Exchange (is it compatable with the Catholic faith?)
Know Your Heresies
The Rev. John Piper: an interesting look at "heresy vs. schism"
Pietism as an Ecclesiological Heresy
Heresy
Arian Heresy Still Tempts, Says Cardinal Bertone (Mentions Pelagianism As Well)
Catholic Discussion] Church group stays faithful (to heresy!)
An overview of modern anti-Trinitarian heresies
Where heresy and dissent abound [Minnesota]
Gnostic Gospels - the heresy entitled "Gnosticism."
Christian mavericks find affirmation in ancient heresies
The So-Called ‘Gospel’ of Judas: Unmasking an Ancient Heresy
Benedict XVI Heresies and Errors
Donatism (Know your heresies)
The Heresy of Mohammed (Chapter 4, The Great Heresies)
Father & Son Catholic Writers Tag-Team Old & New Heresies
As one Biblical scholar said to me, “No real heresy ever dies.”
He was right, you can still find folks who would find Nestorius’ heresy as supporting their YOPIS theology.
You are right that orthodox Christians of all sects reject the heresy of Nestorious. The point I believe is that the title of Theotokos or Mother of God, which is given to Mary was given to refute the Nestorian heresy not to claim she was the Mother of the God the Father, first person of the Holy Trinity.
Well, the "Assyrian Church of the East" is a historically Nestorian body. Whether they "fully agree" or ever fully agreed with Nestorius is certainly debatable.
Sounds like that’s making it personal to me by bringing in names and topics cross threads.
And yet that's what is says.
Saying that she is the mother of Christ in no way denies either Jesus' humanity nor His divinity. It simply and accurately states a fact, which calling Mary the mother of God does not because it can be so easily misinterpreted.
A mention of one Freeper’s understanding of another Freeper’s belief is not making the thread “about” him as long as the thread can stay on the issues. If the mention is inflammatory - certain or likely to incite a flamewar - then it is not tolerable.
Only by those who are confused by the Hypostatic Union, that Christ is one person with two natures; being fully human and fully divine. Nestorious rejected that Mary was the mother of the Incarnate Word and asserted she was the mother of Jesus’s humanity only. This is from the
Christians and Apologetics Research Ministry.
“Nestorianism is the error that Jesus is two distinct persons. The heresy is named after Nestorius, who was born in Syria and died in 451 AD, who advocated this doctrine. Nestorius was a monk who became the Patriarch of Constantinople and he repudiated the Marian title “Mother of God.” He held that Mary was the mother of Christ only in respect to His humanity. The council of Ephesus was convened in 431 to address the issue and pronounced that Jesus was one person in two distinct and inseparable natures: divine and human.
Nestorius was deposed as Patriarch and sent to Antioch, then Arabia, and then Egypt. Nestorianism survived until around 1300.
The problem with Nestorianism is that it threatens the atonement. If Jesus is two persons, then which one died on the cross? If it was the “human person” then the atonement is not of divine quality and thereby insufficient to cleanse us of our sins.”
So the title Mother of Christ was indeed used to deny that Christ was fully divine and fully human in one person. The reason the titles Theotokos and Mother of God are rejected now is because of hyper anti Catholicism, not from any sound Christological precept.
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