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200-year-long drought may have killed Sumerian language
MSNBC ^ | 12-4-2012 | Tia Ghose

Posted on 12/05/2012 6:09:59 AM PST by Renfield

A 200-year-long drought 4,200 years ago may have killed off the ancient Sumerian language, one geologist says.

Because no written accounts explicitly mention drought as the reason for the Sumerian demise, the conclusions rely on indirect clues. But several pieces of archaeological and geological evidence tie the gradual decline of the Sumerian civilization to a drought.

The findings, which were presented Monday here at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union, show how vulnerable human society may be to climate change, including human-caused change....

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; cuneiform; curseofagade; drought; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; history; sumer; sumerian
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1 posted on 12/05/2012 6:10:11 AM PST by Renfield
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To: Renfield

I blame Gozer the Gozerian.


2 posted on 12/05/2012 6:12:07 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: Renfield

“show how vulnerable human society may be to climate change, including human-caused change....”

Globull Wormists: “We can breathe life into this turd yet!”

Can they tell us what SUV’s or man caused events happened back then?


3 posted on 12/05/2012 6:23:40 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I guess global warming from all of the combustible engines they had 4200 years ago caused the drought.


4 posted on 12/05/2012 6:24:51 AM PST by VA_Gentleman ("Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very internet you invented." -Jon Stewart)
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To: Renfield
Q: How do you say "Sushi" in Sumerian?

A: "Bait."

5 posted on 12/05/2012 6:27:48 AM PST by PJ-Comix (Beware the Rip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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To: Renfield
There was what is called a Bermuda High that sat offshore about 500 years. The Yucatan Peninsula suffered a drought throughout the whole period and the Mayan civilization disappeared!

That appears to be a normal climate thing around the Caribbean ~ and no SUVs.

Then, Sometime after 1541 a drought started somewhere in what is now the United States ~ or, in fact, it could have started before 1541 if we read DeSoto's diary/guidebook as indicating he and his band of explorers crossed the Great River at Leven's Worth Indiana.

It's pretty obvious there was a drought going on because the expedition traveled in open country virtually the whole way to Chicago ~ from Central Florida!

Some detailed studies have been done by archaeologists and they find evidence that pre-Colonial Virginia was in a drought that was at least 70 years in duration in the 1500s, and during that period there was a 17 year period with no precipitation at all!

Virginia's drought was in full blown splendor when Smith and crowd settled Jamestown (1609). It was 1620 before there was serious European interest in other large scale settlements ~ we may infer from that attitude that there was a water shortage along the East Coast.

What that means to the interior is just as serious ~ no water, no people! That also means the Mississippi main watershed (the Ohio Valley) was equally difficult to settle in that period ~ and the Iroquois might well have not had to kill many of them to get them to go somewhere else while they took over the region.

With the Upper reaches of the Mississippi and Missouri out of the running as reliable routes of travel, the main thrust of Spanish development would have hugged the Gulf Coast ~ which it did, and Texas ~ if they could ~ as hurricanes returned after the Great North American drought of the 1500/1600 period settlement was probably intermittent and difficult ~ which, in fact, it was, until the 1700s.

A 200 year drought in Sumer would have definitely caused some problems ~ first of all, they'd moved upstram into Turkey, and Kazan, and probably on up into Europe.

Much of the United States is at the same latitude as North Africa, Persia, the Gobi ~ and other desert regions.

Just a few years without regular replenishment with rain from Gulf hurricanes and this place returns to its natural desert state! Of course the entire Eurphrates basin is subject to the same sort of droughts.

6 posted on 12/05/2012 6:56:55 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

7 posted on 12/05/2012 6:57:02 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Renfield

200-year drought. What a buncha crap. Another brilliant scientist dreamed this one up.


8 posted on 12/05/2012 6:58:38 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Renfield

i thought it was declining over a period of time, replaced by akkadian


9 posted on 12/05/2012 7:01:41 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Darksheare
"Can they tell us what SUV’s or man caused events happened back then?"

Silly you. Didn't you know that SUV originally stood for "SUmerian Vehicle"??

10 posted on 12/05/2012 7:05:58 AM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: SgtHooper

A 200 year is possible and its occured before. Changing weather patterns etc. are perfectly natural causes


11 posted on 12/05/2012 7:19:26 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Renfield
Yep, the Sumerians throats got so dry they couldn't speak so they started to use the Akkadian language. One of the great lessons of history: Always have plenty of beer stored in your mud hut in case of climate change.
12 posted on 12/05/2012 7:31:32 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Renfield

13 posted on 12/05/2012 7:37:56 AM PST by OB1kNOb (On November 6th liberty was given the death penalty in America.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Gozer the Gozarian will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldronaii, the traveler came as a large and moving Torb! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the Meketrex Supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day, I can tell you!


14 posted on 12/05/2012 7:38:22 AM PST by Lazamataz (Islam is a religious form of Nazism.)
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To: muawiyah
It's pretty obvious there was a drought going on because the expedition traveled in open country virtually the whole way to Chicago ~ from Central Florida!

Think you're getting a little over-enthusiastic there. DeSoto probably didn't get any farther north than the MO bootheel.

Also the country he traveled thru is described as heavily populated, which no doubt explains to some extent why it was "open." Also large populations don't go along real well with desert conditions.

15 posted on 12/05/2012 7:39:31 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Renfield

If Sumerian was a good language it would have survived the drought and most other catastrophies. Other competing languages must have been more efficient.


16 posted on 12/05/2012 7:43:56 AM PST by RadiationRomeo (Step into my mind and glimpse the madness that is me)
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To: Renfield

“Because no written accounts explicitly mention drought as the reason for the Sumerian demise, the conclusions rely on indirect clues.”

How rude of them not to write down why they lost their written language!


17 posted on 12/05/2012 7:46:26 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Lazamataz

He can't be serious ...

18 posted on 12/05/2012 7:51:31 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Renfield

Some interpreters of ancient texts would have it that Sumer ended after fallout from a nuclear exchange during a civil war between the Annunaki.

Not that I subscribe to it, but some of the arguments are interesting.


19 posted on 12/05/2012 7:52:27 AM PST by fattigermaster
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To: Cronos

I wholeheartedly agree with climate change (but not global warming). My concern is for the derivation of the result. What is a drought? No water? Less water than normal? I take the latter. No water for 200 years is unprovable nonsense, imo. And don’t pull out the geological strata samples stuff, which would have to be obtained over a wide region to claim a drought that wiped out (deeply impacted) a people. I just can’t buy it.


20 posted on 12/05/2012 7:57:20 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: fattigermaster
Some interpreters of ancient texts would have it that Sumer ended after fallout from a nuclear exchange during a civil war between the Annunaki.

Did you mean between the Annunaki and the Atom Ant people?


21 posted on 12/05/2012 8:22:56 AM PST by null and void (Going Galt: The won't of the people)
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To: Sherman Logan
He didn't even go to the Missouri Bootheel ~ he crossed the Great River ~ which takes a hard right at Cairo Illinois ~ and the first EASY crossing point where you could take a wagon over without a lot of trouble is Levenworth Indiana.

Did you read what I said ~ depending on how you read it.......

There's an older view that has him cross South of the Ohio ~ but at that time *(1541) that wasn't separately named.

Note, big note too ~ 90% of the main flow of the Mississippi at Cairo comes from the Ohio. The Northern branch is of little more significance than the Wabash!

His diary clearly describes the fish pens at Terre Haute, the surface iron pyrite in SE Indiana, the Indian village at Angel Mounds at Evansville.

What more could you want?

22 posted on 12/05/2012 8:37:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Renfield

ObamaCare ruined their economy. Once the social programs collapsed they fought each other over the remaining food, gold and weapons until they were no more.


23 posted on 12/05/2012 8:42:10 AM PST by BipolarBob (Riding my stick horse yelling "Woop woop whopm Gangnam Style" & grinning like an idiot.)
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To: SgtHooper
Uh, Mesopotamia is in the middle of a desert right at the latitude where cold dry air pours down constantly ~ life exists along the margins of the rivers ~ and here are two big ones ~ the Tigris and the Euphrates.

To the South there are two other rivers, one of them was observable in ancient times and was discovered only in modern times through the use of powerful space radar systems.

I know a guy who was present when that happened ~ yes, the other guys did that peculiar Jewish dance at the unveiling..... it is named in Genesis.

The Sumerians were herdsmen ~ and, if that tablet is correct, they raised grain as well ~ so they were doing some irrigation from the Euphrates. It could stop raining further North with no effort at all ~ in fact, during the LAST interglacial before this one (circa 120,000 years ago) that area was also desert. We are fortunate that this time the desert is smaller.

24 posted on 12/05/2012 8:42:40 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Boogieman

Why, that’d mean they musta’ been eaten, or run off somewhur’s else!


25 posted on 12/05/2012 8:45:01 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SgtHooper

The Sahara is in a drought that’s lasted thousands of years. The Grand Sonora has been desert for the most part for MILLIONS OF YEARS.


26 posted on 12/05/2012 8:48:59 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Cronos

Indeed. Sahara was once home to a lake, and a sea before that. It amazes me that earths climate is as stable as it is
given the dynamics of solar flares and the effects on air and sea currents.


27 posted on 12/05/2012 9:36:53 AM PST by RitchieAprile (the obsteperous gentleman..)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


28 posted on 12/05/2012 9:41:19 AM PST by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Lazamataz

...Who does your taxes?


29 posted on 12/05/2012 9:46:08 AM PST by VRW Conspirator (We were the tea party before there was a tea party. - Jim Robinson)
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To: RightOnline
Didn't you know that SUV originally stood for "SUmerian Vehicle"??

After the onset of drought, the Sumerians changed their vehicles from internal combustion to horse-drawn, but alas! -- it was too late for their "green" technology to affect the weather and the solid pollution was a misery to those who still walked in sandals. Yea, verily, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

30 posted on 12/05/2012 9:54:21 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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Some parts of the Atacama Desert of Chile have never had rain in recorded history.


31 posted on 12/05/2012 9:58:25 AM PST by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%)
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To: fattigermaster

Or, maybe God destroyed the tower at Babel and confused their languages, so there simply wasn’t anyone left who could speak Sumerian anymore. The Sumerians were a cosmopolitan people composed of various racial groups, centered around the correct geographical area, around the same time as described in that Biblical story.


32 posted on 12/05/2012 10:27:38 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman; blam; SunkenCiv
The Sumerians were a cosmopolitan people composed of various racial groups, centered around the correct geographical area,

Where did you get that?

Sumerian creation myts in the Enuma Elisha place their Eden as Dilmun (or modern day Bahrain)

About their racial background hmmm... there doesn't seem to be enough dna evidence one way or the other.

33 posted on 12/05/2012 11:48:06 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
Their language could be a cognate of the Dravidian languages. Or, maybe it just picked up a lot of words from wandering Dravidians ~ or Hungarians ~ or whatever.

It's non-indo-european.

34 posted on 12/05/2012 12:28:28 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Cronos

“Where did you get that?”

Well, as to the racial aspect, if I remember correctly, I read about in the Pelican History of the World. There were at least two distinct races in Sumeria, because they’ve found caucasoid and negroid remains there.

“Sumerian creation myts in the Enuma Elisha place their Eden as Dilmun (or modern day Bahrain)”

I really don’t care where they thought Eden was, they were living in the correct area that corresponds to the Tower of Babel story.


35 posted on 12/05/2012 12:29:23 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: OB1kNOb

No one can just talk about the weather that is to boring. We need a chicken little


36 posted on 12/05/2012 12:49:12 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric Cartman voice* 'I love you, guys')
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To: Renfield

wasn’t that - 2,200 N.C. - about the same era in which Abraham left what was then part of Sumeria/now part of Iraq?


37 posted on 12/05/2012 12:51:31 PM PST by Wuli
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To: muawiyah

That takes the meaning of drought to a whole new level. A drought actually infers that the event is temporary. 200 years is not temporary. That’s actually misrepresented, let alone thousands to millions of year.


38 posted on 12/05/2012 1:07:47 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: SgtHooper
Just looked up a bunch of definitions ~ nothing temporary about a drought ~ simply that it is prolonged.

I think you are looking for the term "prolonged", which a drought can be ~ some definitions suggest it's a prolonged period of abnormally low precipitation ~ but unless prolonged is defined, the Sahara is in a drought ~ a very long one in fact. Goes on for 100,005 years, with a 5,000 year break.

An 80 year drought cycle is pretty normal for the US ~ and it would be wrong to suggest that just because that's "normal" that no drought exists!

39 posted on 12/05/2012 1:24:44 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

I guess my point is, when does a drought become subsumed as a principal part of the climate change cycle. Anyway, good points and info. I just cant get my mind around a 100,000 year drought; however, climate change over that period, seems more reasonable.


40 posted on 12/05/2012 2:25:41 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: SgtHooper
The first part of the current ice age had cycles of about 40,000 years of ice followed by an interglacial of 10,000 years of warmth and high ocean levels. The second part of the current ice age had cycles of about 100,000 years of ice followed by an interglacial of 10,000 years of warmth and high ocean levels.

We've had about 20 such cycles!

The climate for 2.5 million years for most of the planet has therefore been ICE AGE ~ GLACIAL. The climate for a couple of million years before that was PRE ICE AGE - NON GLACIAL ~ but the Southern Hemisphere had it's own cycles of expansion and contraction of the Antarctic ice pack.

Several sources say the ice in the Ghost Mountains (2 miles deep ~ covers all the mountains) in Antarctica may well have been there 500 million years! Nobody's been to the bottom yet, so who knows eh!

I suspect the almost permanantly iced up condition of much of Antarctica has a lot to do with advances of glaciers in the Northern hemisphere though, so we should keep our eyes on the place. Currently it's getting colder and producing more ice ~ just freezes it right out of the air too!

41 posted on 12/05/2012 4:24:24 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Renfield
The cause of the drought:

Disaster That Struck The Ancients

42 posted on 12/05/2012 8:46:45 PM PST by blam
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Drought May Have Killed Sumerian Language
Live Science | 12-5-2012 | Tia Ghose
Posted on December 5, 2012 9:54:00 AM EST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2965838/posts


43 posted on 12/06/2012 8:15:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Renfield; Cronos; blam

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Renfield and blam for the topics, and thanks Cronos for the ping.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


44 posted on 12/06/2012 8:15:39 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...

BTW, not a chance. :') The Sumerians came from the sea (their words not mine) and referred to themselves as "the black-headed people". Their language is an isolate, and agglutinative, hence probably they came from the Indus or from southern India. They had a superstition that cities could not be founded by humans, only by gods, and took over existing cities, usually leaving even the foreign names. Their words for the great rivers of Mesopotamia were likewise borrowed from an unknown prior people speaking an unknown, otherwise unrecorded language. The Sumerians had the cuneiform writing system, which was widely adapted (notably by the Akkadians, who had no problem founding cities) and remained in wide use -- including in Egypt -- until the early centuries A.D. The Sumerians themselves faded out during a protracted period of internecine city-state warfare, and were absorbed and superseded by the Semitic Akkadians/Assyrians.


45 posted on 12/06/2012 8:23:59 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

200 years of parched tongues changed the language?

Lip Balm could have saved it!


46 posted on 12/06/2012 8:26:59 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: SunkenCiv
"The Sumerians came from the sea (their words not mine) and referred to themselves as "the black-headed people"."

Maybe From Sundaland.

Wise men from the east.

47 posted on 12/06/2012 9:01:24 PM PST by blam
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To: Darksheare; SunkenCiv; Renfield; All

I see the date 4,200 years ago. I wonder if this is the same period of the First Intermediate Period in Egypt in which Ipuwer wrote so vividly of terrible environmental calamities in Egypt. I was doing some checking on Meteor strikes around that period, and in addition to the crater in the Iraq marshes which SC first brought to our attention, I also saw some information about several craters in Argentina also from that time period. I think one was 13 miles in diameter. Not big enough for an extinction event, but certainly capable of causing noticeable earth changes.


48 posted on 12/07/2012 12:13:02 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: null and void; Tax-chick
I think you are on to something.

Don't drink don't smoke, what do ya do?

Obviously the language died out when the Sumerians became so parched that they couldn't even lick those clay tablets enough to write anything down.

49 posted on 12/07/2012 12:21:33 AM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Ezekiel

Must be something...


50 posted on 12/07/2012 12:47:57 AM PST by null and void (Going Galt: The won't of the people)
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